TTUAC methods/blanket training- making kids stupider?

[lemonhead]

According to son, these particular studies are controversial and there is serious doubt among scientists about the reliability of studies like this one.

I am only parroting what Cuteneurorad says. So, don't blame the messenger :( :(

No, I wasn't blaming anyone. I'm sorry it came across that way--my kiddos were coming in the door and I had to wrap it up :)

I'm aware of the controversy: the studies are (necessarily) small because the tech is expensive, and it's difficult to do prospective studies in this area. There's also speculation that the damage will depend on the type of trauma (one-time vs chronic, interpersonal vs "act of god") and the survivor's support network. It's hard to control for all of those variables. I just wanted to make people aware that the research is ongoing and we are still learning, but there are some early results that indicate detectable damage: a meta-analysis published in the journal Hippocampus in June 2005 (yes, there's a entire journal for it, LOL) found that "On average PTSD patients had a 6.9% smaller left hippocampal volume and a 6.6% smaller right hippocampal volume compared with control subjects."

That's all. I'm just fascinated by this for personal reasons so I'm kind of geeky about it.

edited for punctuation

[latraviata]

No, I wasn't blaming anyone. I'm sorry it came across that way--my kiddos were coming in the door and I had to wrap it up :)

I'm aware of the controversy: the studies are (necessarily) small because the tech is expensive, and it's difficult to do prospective studies in this area. There's also speculation that the damage will depend on the type of trauma (one-time vs chronic, interpersonal vs "act of god") and the survivor's support network. It's hard to control for all of those variables. I just wanted to make people aware that the research is ongoing and we are still learning, but there are some early results that indicate detectable damage: a meta-analysis published in the journal Hippocampus in June 2005 (yes, there's a entire journal for it, LOL) found that "On average PTSD patients had a 6.9% smaller left hippocampal volume and a 6.6% smaller right hippocampal volume compared with control subjects."

That's all. I'm just fascinated by this for personal reasons so I'm kind of geeky about it.

edited for punctuation

So am I and and If I could choose again I am quite sure I would have studied neuro psychologie.

[apple1]

What happened to the kind that blocks off a fairly bog portion of a room ala the one used on the TV show Rugrats? Those seem more fair/fun to kids, while still keeping them from running off.

My daughter has that at her house. My house is open concept to the point that the entire first floor is all open, so it is not feasible at my house. Plus we are not the parents and she is only with us at limited times.

[mrs]

Nearly anything can be taken to an extreme.

I'm Grandma to a 2 year old, and we babysit her about 3 out of 4 weekends while Mama and Daddy work. I have a pack-n-play, and use it APPROPRIATELY. She uses it to take her nap. I also occasionally use it for a time out, if time out is required. (She IS 2).

I think it is entirely inappropriate to confine a child large amounts of time to a pack-n-play. Kids learn by exploring their environment (safely, of course). And not being able to explore also creates frustration for the child.

I am not a mother. I have some serious questions that may seem “silly†but I am honestly curious.

Is it cruel to put a toddler in a pack and play while the mother is showering (assuming there are no other adults present)? Or when unloading groceries from the car?

Is it just as cruel to leave a toddler in a child proofed playroom that is “baby gated†while cooking dinner? I am assuming playroom can be seen from the kitchen.

Where do you learn what is appropriate and what is not? I am sure a lot of it is instinct and common sense but it seems like there are huge differences in opinions.

(I have so much to learn before I try to become a mother. ;) )

[apple1]

I am not a mother. I have some serious questions that may seem “silly†but I am honestly curious.

Is it cruel to put a toddler in a pack and play while the mother is showering (assuming there are no other adults present)? Or when unloading groceries from the car? No. That is a means of keeping the kid safe while necessities happen. (When mine were preschool age, I think I set new records in shortest time required to shower BTW).

Is it just as cruel to leave a toddler in a child proofed playroom that is “baby gated†while cooking dinner? I am assuming playroom can be seen from the kitchen. Another no IMO.

Where do you learn what is appropriate and what is not? I am sure a lot of it is instinct and common sense but it seems like there are huge differences in opinions. Know yourself, know your kids, and yes, it is instinct and common sense, and, yes, there are varying opinions. There ARE some "experts" that make good references, as long as discernment is also used (again, IMO).

(I have so much to learn before I try to become a mother. ;) )

My answers in red (above).

[TrueRebel1]

I am not a mother. I have some serious questions that may seem “silly†but I am honestly curious.

Is it cruel to put a toddler in a pack and play while the mother is showering (assuming there are no other adults present)? Or when unloading groceries from the car?

Is it just as cruel to leave a toddler in a child proofed playroom that is “baby gated†while cooking dinner? I am assuming playroom can be seen from the kitchen.

Where do you learn what is appropriate and what is not? I am sure a lot of it is instinct and common sense but it seems like there are huge differences in opinions.

(I have so much to learn before I try to become a mother. ;) )

I'm a mother of 3. I have no problem with strategies such as using a play-pen, baby-gate, or swing/walker from time to time. It can be safest for baby and provide some peace-of-mind to mom.

Where I draw the line is when these things have to be used perpetually. When mom has 5 little kids running around and can't control them so she has to "lock" them up to make dinner; when the baby/kid has no enjoyment from being confined in their space. This, in my mind, is where the responsibility of family planning comes into play. If you literally can't take care of your kids, then either don't have them, or hire a babysitter or housekeeper. It's as simple as that.

[polecat]

I am not a mother. I have some serious questions that may seem “silly†but I am honestly curious.

Is it cruel to put a toddler in a pack and play while the mother is showering (assuming there are no other adults present)? Or when unloading groceries from the car?

Is it just as cruel to leave a toddler in a child proofed playroom that is “baby gated†while cooking dinner? I am assuming playroom can be seen from the kitchen.

Where do you learn what is appropriate and what is not? I am sure a lot of it is instinct and common sense but it seems like there are huge differences in opinions.

(I have so much to learn before I try to become a mother. ;) )

It probably depends on too many things for there to be just one answer. Kids are all different, households are all different, moms are all different.

[wild little fox]

I also think that the lack of critical thinking skills contributes to the problem. I know Christian families who homeschool and teach their children how to think for themselves. I also know families who believe they are teaching critical thinking skills but they don't. They are teaching the same things as fundies.

I also see lack of development in adults who were not raised by fundies but there still was neglect.

[anachronistic]

I was watching the baby I take care of yesterday as he played on the floor. He can't crawl yet. So when a toy rolled out of his reach, he was.......stuck. No more toy. (For all of 2 seconds until I brought it back.) I thought, what about those poor blanket-trained kids, who can't go get the toy that rolls off the blanket? Then I remembered that they're supposed to stay on the blanket without toys or anything to amuse the - is that right or am I recalling incorrectly? They're just supposed to stay there, bored and obedient?

Kids are naturally curious. If a kid isn't curious, there's something wrong. When I was 6 months old, my mother started taking me to doctors because I was 'too good' - I was too content to sit in one spot and do nothing for very long periods, I didn't fuss or cry a lot or smile, I was just incredibly placid. Took two decades but oh yeah, I'm mildly autistic. I bet that some people wouldn't even noticed if their well-trained child had learning disabilities/Aspergers syndrome/mild cerebral palsy because they'd just think oh, they're being good. As someone who has benefited *tremendously* from available therapies I find that so incredibly sad.

I also think that play pens, pack and plays, swings, etc are all perfectly appropriate as long as the child is happy. How do you know the child is happy? Well, if you've loved and engaged with them since they were born, it is not that hard to figure out, because they will actively communicate to you when something is wrong. (Unless something bigger is wrong, like with me above.) They will cry when they are bored - they will fuss - and so you pick them up, you sing a song, you switch out the toys, you help them roll the ball - it really isn't rocket science. Love, engage and talk to the kid. These people say they love them, but it is a rather twisted kind of love in my opinion.

[latraviata]

My answers in red (above).

I took a shower or a bath with my child. When their father was home I treated myself with a loooooong bath.

While I was cooking I had the children on the kitchen floor playing with plastic bowls and wooden spoons, they loved and I just stepped over them.

There is nothing wrong with a play pen and I had gated stairs after my 3 year oldest son came down with his baby brother up side down under his arm.......

[Lulu]

playpens/portacots make excellent hideouts for preschoolers trying to play away from toddler siblings :lol: I had 6 childrens in 8yrs and employed many things to help keep things from getting out of hand from playpens to babygates to paying the eldest to push the youngest round the garden in her pram. Its how the things are used.

To me it makes sense that anything that is misused to control a child could damage them. Plonk your toddler down in front of the TV 24/7 or letting your 6yrold plug into the ipod/gameboy at all times and you have similar problems.

[paideiamama]

Great post! Fundies probably wouldn't care about the latest scientific evidence unless it supports their beliefs.

Some research from Notre Dame on parenting practices:

research.nd.edu/news/36692-modern-parenting-may-hinder-brain-development-research-shows/

One thing that stuck out to me is that CIO hinders brain development. It is hard enough to have 1 baby and 1 toddler and respond to the baby's needs. Can't see how a parent could care for multiple babies while homeschooling.

Another point often overlooked... treating babies like animals that need to be trained deprives the parents of an amazing experience: getting to bond with and learn from a new person.

[August]

The ret of society values curiosity. Religion does not. Curious people ask too many questions.

[Ariel]

Another point often overlooked... treating babies like animals that need to be trained deprives the parents of an amazing experience: getting to bond with and learn from a new person.

It's so dehumanizing. Its like when infant mortality rates were high and parents didn't strongly bond with their children until they passed toddlerhood and had a higher chance of not dying-except fundies never bother to bond at all.

It's easier to mistreat children if you never, ever, view them a humans.

I think part of the problem is the idea that all humans are sinners and we're all inherently bad. Even your newborn :pink-shock:

[August]

I am not a mother. I have some serious questions that may seem “silly†but I am honestly curious.

Is it cruel to put a toddler in a pack and play while the mother is showering (assuming there are no other adults present)? Or when unloading groceries from the car?

Is it just as cruel to leave a toddler in a child proofed playroom that is “baby gated†while cooking dinner? I am assuming playroom can be seen from the kitchen.

Where do you learn what is appropriate and what is not? I am sure a lot of it is instinct and common sense but it seems like there are huge differences in opinions.

(I have so much to learn before I try to become a mother. ;) )

Temperament differs massively from child to child, and needs change with age. One child may be unable to let you out of their sight until years after they start school, another could be fine playing alone for an hour from birth. Also, family situations differ. A two parent family where both are often present has more opportunities to get necessary things done than a single parent family. In general, first everyone needs to be safe, no matter who gets upset by that. Then, if the child's happy then whatever. If the child's not happy then the parent needs to be doing only the minimum for continued health/sanity and then get back to the child. But since 'not happy' can range from mild grumpiness to all out screaming, the essentialness of the task varies, too.

You can see a very intense, very clingy newborn screaming until they're blue while both parents have a leisurely glass of wine is different from a generally relaxed toddler asking to come into the bathroom while a single mother changes her tampon. There are so many variables, but it comes down to how sad are they, how old are they and how badly do I need to do this?

[lemonhead]

...treating babies like animals that need to be trained deprives the parents of an amazing experience: getting to bond with and learn from a new person.

This is truly the amazing part of parenting that fundies are afraid to acknowledge: you are holding a baby who is a completely new, separate individual who will grow up to have unique feelings, memories, and beliefs that you ultimately cannot control. That is terrifying to fundies in a way that they will never acknowledge. Instead, they will crush it with teachings to blanket-train and break the will in hopes that that unique individual will not emerge and destroy their vision of a perfect, godly cloned family.

[wild little fox]

This is truly the amazing part of parenting that fundies are afraid to acknowledge: you are holding a baby who is a completely new, separate individual who will grow up to have unique feelings, memories, and beliefs that you ultimately cannot control. That is terrifying to fundies in a way that they will never acknowledge. Instead, they will crush it with teachings to blanket-train and break the will in hopes that that unique individual will not emerge and destroy their vision of a perfect, godly cloned family.

QFT!

That's exactly how my father was with me. It is very narcissistic to only see a child as an object that is only the reflection of themselves. There is a verse in the New Testament about being an empty vessel and how god is to fill it up. Another in the OT about a potter and clay. I think that is part of where the narcissism can start. It isn't about the vessel but about the maker. If that is how god is with his children then it must be so with one's own child. Then there is the whole original sin, children are born selfish, self centered, even evil beings. In reality they are helpless and are the way they are so they can communicate their needs. So, put them on a blanket and punish it out of them.

There is a tremendous problem with parents not bonding with their children. That is how psychopaths, sociopaths and people who are incapable of empathy are created.

In not a parent or a college grad so take what I say for what it's worth. Though human behavior does fascinate me.

[FloraDoraDolly]

That's a really interesting question and sent me looking. Right now I'm reading this:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/issue ... ffects.cfm

and this bit struck me:

I wonder if this emotional immaturity / inability to form relationships could be a factor in the SAHD epidemic?

Could be. Reading about the tendency toward impulsive behavior made me think of the Duggar howlers. Most of those boys, plus Hannie, appear to have about as much self-control as the average three-year-old.