A fat person dared to get in my pro-life picture

[So Says I]

I'm always hesitant to call myself a Christian, because of the IFBs thinking they own the term. Christian has unfortunaely become a loaded word. That's why I'm always like, "Don't worry, I'm not like those other assholes."

[Snarfblatt]

Not really - seems fairly typical, actually. In the fundie circles I was raised in, Catholics were considered the whore of Babylon, Satan's mistress, etc. I'm not entirely sure why - never could get anyone to explain the 'why' to me, beyond a 'well because....' or an 'I said so, that's why.' The hate made no sense to me.

When I was much younger I was sort of friends with some people who could be considered fundie-lite. They explained to me that Catholics were "the cult of the Virgin Mary"and that Catholics were not Christians because they don't have a close, personal relationship with Jesus Christ and don't know the Bible at all. I looked a little like this guy at that point. :pink-shock:

I hung out with them because I had never encountered people like that growing up in a Catholic country. I think they in turn all really wanted to be the ones to save me. They failed. I'm an atheist.

[OkToBeTakei]

It's because the British and Dutch Puritan ancestors of the various Reformed Protestant groups that veer into fundiedom viewed Catholicism as 'foreign' and suspicious, partly due to the wars with Spain in the 16th/17th centuries and partly due to the association of Protestantism with patriotism of the Elizabethan religious settlements, which led to the Glorious Revolution and anti-Catholic laws in the UK. A lot of Protestants will not regard Catholics as Christians.

Brilliant.

I really like when accurate history rather than sentiment or opinion is voiced.

[Chowder Head]

So different flavors of christian dont like each other based on historical politics and slight theology. ?

[yewchapel]

So different flavors of christian dont like each other based on historical politics and slight theology. ?

Well, to the people involved it's not slight theology - sola scriptura and sola fidei are kind of big deals to Christians, even the Christians (like myself) that disagree with those doctrines. A lot of Protestants don't consider Catholics to even be Christians, period (and wouldn't know an Orthodox or Coptic Christian if they bit them on the butt). I wouldn't say that Protestants who don't consider Catholics to be Christian dislike Catholics, they just consider Catholics to be weird and 'other', thanks to the association of Protestantism and patriotism I mentioned upthread. The bias against Catholics even in the US has only recently faded - look at JFK and even evangelical Republicans' dilemma over Santorum (not that Santorum is really representative of the post-Vatican II RCC). There's always a prejudice that Catholics are more loyal to the Pope than to the US/UK/Jesus/whoever.

[Maggie Mae]

. A lot of Protestants don't consider Catholics to even be Christians, period.

I'm sorry, and I know people believe this, but that just stupid, it's as though they are unaware of the definition of "Christian."

I actually remember the first person who told me that Catholics weren't Christians. I laughed, and thought they were joking. Christian means you believe in Jesus Christ, and Catholics believe in Jesus. So I told the guy (who was pretty cute, but Baptist) and he had no response, other than to say something about praying to Mary. People are weird. And kind of dumb.

[yewchapel]

I'm sorry, and I know people believe this, but that just stupid, it's as though they are unaware of the definition of "Christian."

I actually remember the first person who told me that Catholics weren't Christians. I laughed, and thought they were joking. Christian means you believe in Jesus Christ, and Catholics believe in Jesus. So I told the guy (who was pretty cute, but Baptist) and he had no response, other than to say something about praying to Mary. People are weird. And kind of dumb.

Oh I agree that it's stupid, but the people I know who believe this would say that just believing in Jesus Christ is not enough to be a 'real' Christian.

[Maggie Mae]

Oh I agree that it's stupid, but the people I know who believe this would say that just believing in Jesus Christ is not enough to be a 'real' Christian.

And yet those are likely to be the ones in the "say these words that are printed below this comic strip and you will become Christian." The mind. It is confused.

[Effie]

On her post about her book, she has a friend of hers saying that we are a bunch of dopes and that she should have the best feeling ever knowing we are going to burn for all of eternity. Instead of correcting her friend to point out that as someone who has radically dedicated her life to Jesus, she doens't want people to go to hell, she agrees and adds a smilie face.

You can't burn for all of eternity... :? Sotdrt fail.

Cremation takes approx. 2 hours...so go figure.

[Trynn]

I grew up being taught that Catholics don't consider themselves Christians and don't believe in Jesus. As an adult I've decided to suspend judgement on this until I can find real evidence, but from what I'm reading here it seems to be untrue.

[Megan]

Sooo "I'm sticking around" turned into not talking to us heathens pretty quickly...

I grew up being taught that Catholics don't consider themselves Christians and don't believe in Jesus. As an adult I've decided to suspend judgement on this until I can find real evidence, but from what I'm reading here it seems to be untrue.

Catholics 100% believe in Jesus. How do they think the idea of Jesus stuck around Western Europe long enough to spur the reformation? Martin Luther was a Catholic priest before breaking away. Henry VIII was the "defender of the faith" (the faith = Catholicism) before CoE schismed from the RCC.

Again, every Catholic I know considers his- or herself Christian.

I spent much of my life in an area that was predominantly evangelical Protestant. If someone asked me if I was a Christian, I would say I was Catholic - not because I didn't think of myself as Christian, but to clarify what type I was (and because I knew many of them didn't consider me Christian...). Similarly, if someone asked me if I lived in the US, I'd probably say "I live in California." I am not saying I'm not from the US. I am specifying where in the US I am from.

Now I get to say I'm an atheist. Much easier :nenner:

[yewchapel]

I grew up being taught that Catholics don't consider themselves Christians and don't believe in Jesus. As an adult I've decided to suspend judgement on this until I can find real evidence, but from what I'm reading here it seems to be untrue.

That's very, very untrue, yes. Catholics absolutely consider themselves Christians (actually that they are the One True Church) and their theology is very Jesus-focused (as in, Jesus is the most prominent member of the Trinity in Catholic teaching*).

Pedantic note - I know by 'Catholics' we all mean Roman Catholics (who follow the Latin Rite), but there are also Oriental Catholics who follow the Eastern Rite. They are in communion with Rome (along with other rites such as the Syro-Malabar rite which is common in India) and are Catholics but not the same as Roman Catholics. If anyone was watching Pope Francis' installation as Pope, you will have seen a deacon of the Greek Catholic church doing a reading - this is a church of the Eastern Rite, and not just a Roman Catholic from Greece ;) Catholic with a small c means universal and usually includes churches with Apostolic succession, so Catholics (Roman, Oriental and others), Orthodox (Eastern, Oriental and Coptic) and Anglicans.

*Jesus comes across as the most prominent member of the Trinity in RC theology but I know RC theology is fully trinitarian and considers all the members of the Trinity to be equal.

I haven't slept at all so sorry for the essay which isn't interesting to anyone else, lol.

[mockingbird]

The church I grew up going to used to have a priest I discussed literature with. (He's now in Italy, I think. Lucky...) We were talking about Dante once and he considered Dante "inaccurate" (tongue in cheek) because the definition of hell is being separated from God, which means being separated from life, so basically it's not going to be hot and vibrant and firey, it's going to be cold and icy. I thought this was an interesting interpretation. I've heard the "pit of fire" thing in Catholic school too (I think the kids in Fatima saw it) so I don't think that's a universal theory, but we might be freezing for eternity instead.

[Megan]

I feel like I was taught that hell was a state of being rather than a place, similar to what that priest said. Either way, the 9th circle of hell in Dante is ice-y, no? I remember Satan being immobilized in ice. So maybe he and Dante weren't in such disagreement :)

[julie paradox]

Well, to be fair, Revelation does talk about Satan and his angels being cast into the lake of fire.

Of course, it then adds that "the lake of fire is the second death" which to me indicates that it doesn't go on for all eternity; but I'm a bit heretical on the whole afterlife and eschatology things anyway.

[alba]

I'm sure she's still following this, so I have to ask--how much does it cost to pay for your book to be published? My aunt wrote a book about home shrines (Catholic!! Ewwww! Devils!! :roll: ) and published it...I have always been terribly curious how much it cost.

Generally-speaking, you don't pay for a book to be published. The publisher covers the costs of editing, printing, etc., and then takes a cut of the earnings; they won't publish a book if they don't think it'll sell well enough to make a profit.

LauraLee's just self-published online, though, which means there are no upfront costs and Amazon (for Kindle) just gets something like 30% of the profit.

[ladyaudley]

If the situation does not call for a leader, the only dialogue allowed is "Shibboleth!" "Shibboleth!" and if you say, "Sibboleth," to Hell with you

Makes me smile, because the server for the UK Higher Education Access Management Federation (that lets students get access to JSTOR etc) is called Shibboleth

[formergothardite]

You can't burn for all of eternity... :? Sotdrt fail.

Cremation takes approx. 2 hours...so go figure.

I was taught growing up(and this is a really horrible thing to teach small children)that people in hell will feel like they are burning, but they would not actually burn or die. So an eternity of extreme suffering.

But I was never taught Catholics were not real Christians. We didn't agree with the way they worshiped, but they still were going to heaven.

[sparkles]

Generally-speaking, you don't pay for a book to be published. The publisher covers the costs of editing, printing, etc., and then takes a cut of the earnings; they won't publish a book if they don't think it'll sell well enough to make a profit.

LauraLee's just self-published online, though, which means there are no upfront costs and Amazon (for Kindle) just gets something like 30% of the profit.

If you self publish through a site like lulu.com you are eligible for a free ISBN number and a sales link to amazon. There's no inventory since books are printed on demand. Theres no outlay of money on the authors' part until a book is actually purchased. Not sure exactly what the costs/fees are but I do seem to remember that they were pretty reasonable. (I was part of a group that raised money for Komen by selling a cookbook on lulu.)

[Maggie Mae]

I was taught (as a Catholic) that Hell was knowing God exists and his love, but feeling the absence if God for eternity. One of my classmates was constantly asking about it and then saying stuff like "how do we know we aren't in hell now?" Which now makes me wonder what her home life was like.

We were also told that since only our "soul" goes, we would be unable to comprehend heaven or hell as human beings.

My grandma told me that we would be woken back up when the messiah comes. That was much more confusing to me at the time; because decomposition and cremation.

[Joan of Snarc]

I always wondered, since only our "soul" goes to heaven or hell, leaving behind this temporary husk of a body, what does it matter what the temperature is in hell? I mean, it's a noncorporeal existence, so why would I care if it's hot?

:roasting:

[jenny_islander]

The church I grew up going to used to have a priest I discussed literature with. (He's now in Italy, I think. Lucky...) We were talking about Dante once and he considered Dante "inaccurate" (tongue in cheek) because the definition of hell is being separated from God, which means being separated from life, so basically it's not going to be hot and vibrant and firey, it's going to be cold and icy. I thought this was an interesting interpretation. I've heard the "pit of fire" thing in Catholic school too (I think the kids in Fatima saw it) so I don't think that's a universal theory, but we might be freezing for eternity instead.

An Orthodox definition is that Hell is Heaven as experienced by the damned. That is, everybody is bathed in the light of the presence of God, but the blessed experience this light as pure joy, while the damned burn in agony. This is also the tradition that teaches that Christian life is a long story of falling down and getting up, falling down and getting up, so there is no anxiously wondering if one is "really" saved; repentance isn't saying a special prayer and hoping it sticks, it's asking for help.

[Maggie Mae]

Instead of reading any of the books suggested here, she reviewed a book that has 77 reviews on Amazon. (And no negative reviews. Interesting.) It was published by David C Cook, which looks like a Christian publisher.

ofasingleheart.blogspot.com/2013/04/more-or-less-book-review.html

And she closes out her review with another weird comment about people of other faith.

What I Didn't Like:

- He kept including people of other faiths (Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists) in the Great Commission. That's like expecting a Catholic nun to make a pilgrimage to Mecca. You can't have the ministry of reconciliation unless you yourself have been reconciled to God.

Edit: riffles

[JMarie]

Instead of reading any of the books suggested to here, she reviewed a book that has 77 reviews on Amazon. (And no negative reviews. Interesting.) It was published by David C Cook, which looks like a Christian publisher.

ofasingleheart.blogspot.com/2013/04/more-or-less-book-review.html

And she closes out her review with another weird comment about people of other faith.

Are we the fanclub?

[thoughtful]

It would have been easier to find the book if she hadn't misspelled both the book title and the author's name.

But perhaps this book will inspire her to have a spirit of giving, even to The Others.