"Special Friendship"

[HereticHick]

Looks like Dating to me too. If you are wearing matching outfits for something other than a prom, its dating. For me, the 5-year year age difference isn't a big deal if young Mr. Webster didn't go away to a brick-and-mortar university. Perhaps he did College Minus, or perhaps he went to a local tech college, which would be very appropriate since he's helping run the family heating/cooling business. But if he went away to university, like his father did--especially a secular university like his father did, I think that the differences between them could be HUUUGE.

[Savoring Samsara]

It's exactly like dating except different because shut up that's why.

As a side note, does anyone find the age difference slightly unsettling? 5 years is nothing for adults, but I sure as hell changed a lot between 18 and 23.

Not really. My husband and I started dating when I was 19 and he was 24. It was a long-distance relationship for the first two years and we took it really slowly. Now the age difference between is us really never notable. I suppose I would only find it unsettling if they were really rushing into marriage at those ages. My husband and I dated for more than 5 years until we got married and I do agree that I changed a lot during that time. Things could easily have gone differently for us and it would have been the wrong decision to make a truly permanent commitment when I was still so young. So, I hope they take their time with their relationship as well.

[ljohnson2006]

I'm sure because of Zach's failed courtship, they're cautious in announcing anything.

[nokidsmom]

Oh FFS. Why must they artificially create the normal progression of two people becoming a couple? Pre-pre-courting? I understand, respect, and appreciate that these folks are not doing the meeting-twice-before-the-wedding rush job. But why not just say, "We'd like our children to get to know other interesting young people, with the hope that someday they'll discover their future mate among their friends." Simple as that. Why the awkward formal stages? Why set up expectations and run into "failed courtships" and pieces of hearts all over the internet? The Bates are better than most, but in general, the Courtship Crowd just makes me shake my head.

Ugh. Fundies.

To me, this is just really overthinking and over-formalizing a completely normal human relationship development. Expectations are going to be built into these relationships all by themselves, but the expectation levels fundies take it to rather astounds me.

No doubt, Kelly calling this a "special friendship" is a result of lessions learned from Zach's courtship but I wonder how many other names she's going to call the same thing by the time all her kids have courtships/dating with a purpose/special friendships or whatever. Though they may be treading carefully on this one because of the political connections; no doubt they would love to have one (or more) of their kids marry into a political family.

[Closed Womb]

I actually feel a little bit for Kelly in this situation. I mean, what do parents call an obvious attraction between their children and others when they are not dating? It happens all the time. In personal conversations she might say, "well, there's obvious interest between the two" but who want to put that on the internet and chance being wrong? or having her poor daughter come off as "lost pieces of her heart" when the relationship fizzles? FWIW, most moms I know wouldn't want to say a child was dating (or courting, or dating with a purpose) someone if it was not official, especially as a public statement.

I think "special friendship" is nothing, other than something to say that does not tie her daughter and the man in question to a defined relationship that they are not yet in.

[MamaJunebug]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Jeebus specifically forebade "friendships" of any kind between the opposite sexes due to the possibility of defrauding?

....

""

Hi, NoneandDone, please feel free to spell the name Jesus, and no, he didn't really have a lot to say on the subject of pre-marital friendships. In fact, he spoke respectfully but firmly with a woman who was on her fifth or so "husband", when most men would have avoided even being near her. He did counsel her to stop sinning, since the guy she was with at the time wasn't her husband. He might even have been someone else's husband.

Just a suggstion, and to clarify. :)

[MamaJunebug]

It's exactly like dating except different because shut up that's why.

As a side note, does anyone find the age difference slightly unsettling? 5 years is nothing for adults, but I sure as hell changed a lot between 18 and 23.

Two of my kids are married to spouses more than 7 years their senior/junior. So far, so good.

ITA that people can change significantly between the late teens and the early-to-mid-twenties -- difference being, in a no-divorce culture, they're just going to be expected to deal with it. Unforunate, but there it is.

As far as the nomenclature, it's all so ridiculous. LIke Garfield insisting "I'm not overweight, I'm undertall."

[Queen Of Hearts]

At least the Bates are letting this 'special friendship' happen. So many fundy families won't even let their kids talk to someone from the opposite sex. Here they are allowed to do date-like things and behave somewhat like young adults.

[HereticHick]

And that's why Gil will get 2 of his girls married off before Boob does!!

Come on, Jim Bob, where's that competitive nature that you always pontificate about???

[lilith]

At least the Bates are letting this 'special friendship' happen. So many fundy families won't even let their kids talk to someone from the opposite sex. Here they are allowed to do date-like things and behave somewhat like young adults.

I suspect many would bend the rules in pursuit of their daughter marrying the son of a wealthy conservative senator.

[Patsy]

""

Hi, NoneandDone, please feel free to spell the name Jesus, and no, he didn't really have a lot to say on the subject of pre-marital friendships. In fact, he spoke respectfully but firmly with a woman who was on her fifth or so "husband", when most men would have avoided even being near her. He did counsel her to stop sinning, since the guy she was with at the time wasn't her husband. He might even have been someone else's husband.

Just a suggstion, and to clarify. :)

Or, you know, feel free to be as sarcastic as you want as this is a snark board. One or the other...

[nokidsmom]

And that's why Gil will get 2 of his girls married off before Boob does!!

Come on, Jim Bob, where's that competitive nature that you always pontificate about???

Maybe when it comes to letting his daughters go, that competitive streak goes right out the window. For one, he needs to keep those girls at home raising their siblings because J'chelle can't. I think they really need those girls around to keep things together. At least Kelly is more involved with her kids and probably won't fall apart with 1 or 2 daughters leaving the house.

[Charliemae]

""

Hi, NoneandDone, please feel free to spell the name Jesus, and no, he didn't really have a lot to say on the subject of pre-marital friendships. In fact, he spoke respectfully but firmly with a woman who was on her fifth or so "husband", when most men would have avoided even being near her. He did counsel her to stop sinning, since the guy she was with at the time wasn't her husband. He might even have been someone else's husband.

Just a suggstion, and to clarify. :)

I have my suspicions that your Jesus and Fundie Jesus are not the same guy.

[pookel]

Yeah, "special friends" is what we called gay couples in the 1980s. When I started working in newspapers, I laughed my ass off at all the obits of elderly men who mentioned being survived by their "special friends," which apparently just meant "BFF" to the funeral directors. For a little while, I was shocked at how many elderly gay men were dying in North Dakota.

[Savoring Samsara]

Yeah, "special friends" is what we called gay couples in the 1980s. When I started working in newspapers, I laughed my ass off at all the obits of elderly men who mentioned being survived by their "special friends," which apparently just meant "BFF" to the funeral directors. For a little while, I was shocked at how many elderly gay men were dying in North Dakota.

That or "longtime companion." (I had the same initial association when I read the original post.)

[pookel]

Looking back, I don't know why people didn't just say "boyfriend" and "girlfriend." But no, you couldn't use the same word for a gay man's male partner that you'd use for a straight woman's male partner. You'd say "special friend," wink wink, nudge nudge.

[Carla Bruni]

FWIW, most moms I know wouldn't want to say a child was dating (or courting, or dating with a purpose) someone if it was not official

Except for mine! Any guy I mention is apparently a boyfriend - she shies away from saying anything about marriage or grandkids to me, but I can tell she's restless (and she just adopted a baby stray puppy to boot, which I think is her training wheels granddaughter). One day, I was telling her over the phone about something my cat did, having previously mentioned that a female friend had spent the night. I continued with the story of the cat's antics with the phrase "after we woke up", and when she clarified who "we" were, she specifically told me she was DISAPPOINTED! that it was just a girlfriend and not a man. :shifty:

Sorry for the off-topic-ness, had to share.

[bananacat]

I actually feel a little bit for Kelly in this situation. I mean, what do parents call an obvious attraction between their children and others when they are not dating? It happens all the time. In personal conversations she might say, "well, there's obvious interest between the two" but who want to put that on the internet and chance being wrong? or having her poor daughter come off as "lost pieces of her heart" when the relationship fizzles? FWIW, most moms I know wouldn't want to say a child was dating (or courting, or dating with a purpose) someone if it was not official, especially as a public statement.

I think "special friendship" is nothing, other than something to say that does not tie her daughter and the man in question to a defined relationship that they are not yet in.

My mom would call it whatever I call it, and unless she already knew the man before I started dating him, she probably wouldn't even know about it until it was pretty serious. Because I'm an adult and she doesn't need to know every potentially romantic interaction I have. If it's just dating but not a boyfriend, then she would refer to it as that. It's really not that difficult unless you're trying to twist yourself into believing that dating isn't actually dating.

[PennySycamore]

Looking back, I don't know why people didn't just say "boyfriend" and "girlfriend." But no, you couldn't use the same word for a gay man's male partner that you'd use for a straight woman's male partner. You'd say "special friend," wink wink, nudge nudge.

I think that longtime companion was used to imply the seriousness and longtime nature of the relationship in a way that boyfriend or girlfriend did not. The term spouse or husband might have been used, but this was before or at the very beginnings of the push for marriage rights. The AIDS epidemic definitely played a role in the push for marriage equality. Gay men were finding out that their relationships had no legal sanction and that of the family that kicked their beloved to the curb might have more say -or the only say- about vital matters. The injustice of this really hit hard.

There are a couple of good movies that deal with this, at least in part. There is a scene in the film Philadelphia where a doctor at the hospital where Andrew Beckett (Tom Hanks) has been taken tells his partner Miguel (Antonio Banderas) that he is not a family member. Miguel questions the doctor "I'm not?" Longtime Companion has a scene where David (Bruce Davison) and his friends are writing the obituary for his lover Sean (John Lamos) who has just died of AIDS complications. Lisa (Mary-Louise Parker) suggested longtime companion as the term lover would just not fly even in the New York Times in the mid-late 80s. I can't find a youtube link for the scene from Philadelphia, but I can find one for Longtime Companion. I won't embed the video because the segment lasts 15 minutes. The obit discussion starts around the 9 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CifnOnUi ... 5A74FE6D69

The whole film has been uploaded to youtube. It's one of my favorites -heartbreaking and funny with excellent performances. Bruce Davison was nominated for an Oscar as Best Supporting Actor.

[RosyDaisy]

I wonder if "special friendship" is fundie foreplay before "sweet fellowship"? :lol:

[Dandruff]

Could it be that he wanted to date without the commitment of a courtship and this is a compromise?

[HereticHick]

Dandruff, I think you may have hit the nail on the head.

Nokidsmom, I agree that Kelly seems more capable of managing her brood.

I think the Bates can also look down their line of kids and see several tween girls (I think they have about 3 between the ages of 11-16) who will soon been fullfledged teenage sister-moms. So they can afford to let a couple of their older girls leave the nest. The Duggars, on the other hand, look at their line up and see an almost 10-year lineup of pimply howler monkeys between Joy and the younger girls. After Joy (poor Joy!!), there are no J-Slaves in training for quite a while.