Straight Marriages = no sexual abuse, domestic violence

[Sola]

Oh wow, I'll be sure to tell that to my friend who had the crap beaten out of her for four years until she had the courage to leave her husband.

[AVENues]

I understand you are really upset , but I disagree strongly with your assumption that it all rests on the father if he isn't successful enough to provide a middle class standard of living for the family.

As a mom who would have LOVED to have been a stay at home mom, but couldn't financially, it wasn't because my husband didn't work - it 's because I live in a high cost area and in order to pay the bills and get by you need 2 incomes. And virtually every family I know who are my parents generation down to young 20 somethings starting out do the same thing. When the kids are infants/toddlers mom might stay home for a couple of years while pregnant/breastfeeding, if they are really lucky - but then the vast majority have to get a job. And it isn't because their husbands "can't provide".

And yeah, day care and nurseries would be awesome - but most couples do a combination of help from families, a little bit of paid day care - and, for the most part, switching shifts so that one parent is home when the other is at work. Which, fyi, sucks for a marriage - but at least leaves the parents taking care of their kids themselves.

Also, in the current economy, traditionally female jobs took much less of a hit and are much more likely to be stable than traditionally male jobs, and being more stable and more likely to be 'office' type jobs which, at least in the U.S. is hugely important because your health insurance is based on your job.

And I'm not talking about having two incomes to provide luxuries and college for the kids and exotic vacations and a huge house. I'm talking about having two incomes to provide decent food and a reasonable apartment and a modest amount of activities and an occasional outing for fun.

So yeah, saying - " hey dude, get a better job' and letting women off the hook for helping to provide is simplistic .

I think it all roots in the rotten patriarchal mindset that has been passed onto people since forever.

I know that there is way too much pressure placed upon a man's shoulder in the patriarchy, because the whole system is based upon the ASSumption hat a set of male genitals will make anyone totally heterosexual, defo more intellectual than the opposite gender which exists, and absolutely perfect in every kind of way to provide for a family financially,mentally, emotionally etc.

I know where you're coming from and I understand it. I am and I was totally upset over the whole article for various reasons, both personal and general. Of I picked the wrong words, please do forgive me.

Most things that I described came from the country I was born, a country with an absolutely patriarchal mindset, where men were supposed to take pride in having their "wimmen" home, they were expected to. I wasn't bashing stay at home parents OR low income households, since domestic violence can happen everywhere and anywhere. I was trying to explain what I saw: an unsustainable and failing patriarchal system with failing and therefore totally stressed patriarchs. I'm afraid you have taken my words personally. In my mind I'm still stuck in my childhood. I'm sorry if I said anything that offended you. I don't think I'm going to add anything to the subject anymore, it upsets me beyond my abilities to think and I don't want to see myself typing things that I do not mean or am not even thinking of. I think I'll be trying to avoid subjects like this in the future for my own good and for that of everyone. I'm not able to react reasonably to atrocities like this article.

[AVENues]

One more thing, just to underline and highlight what I wanted to say: I am all in favor for an egalitarian household. I was trying to talk about men that won't allow their wives to work yet failing to provide for an entire household. That mostly, is a 2-people-job. I don't think I'd consider it "off the hook" when women are forced to stay at home and not being allowed to bring anything to the table.

[snarktastic]

I had a very nice male friend who worked as a social worker, helping troubled families. He said that he hardly had any families on his books where it was just the Mum on her own. Despite all the additional problems of just one income and just one adult to do all the work, once Mum kicked the bloke out, the problem was gone :(

(I'm not saying here that Dads = trouble, just that in the minority of really troubled families it's normally the man who's going to be causing the dysfunction like sexual abuse / violence).

[AVENues]

Men with patriarchal mindsets are trouble. And in a patriarchy, it's going to happen pretty often.

[wild little fox]

One more thing, just to underline and highlight what I wanted to say: I am all in favor for an egalitarian household. I was trying to talk about men that won't allow their wives to work yet failing to provide for an entire household. That mostly, is a 2-people-job. I don't think I'd consider it "off the hook" when women are forced to stay at home and not being allowed to bring anything to the table.

I knew what you were saying.

[Mama Mia]

One more thing, just to underline and highlight what I wanted to say: I am all in favor for an egalitarian household. I was trying to talk about men that won't allow their wives to work yet failing to provide for an entire household. That mostly, is a 2-people-job. I don't think I'd consider it "off the hook" when women are forced to stay at home and not being allowed to bring anything to the table.

I didn't take it personally, and I totally get what you are saying. I just see too often where there is this huge pressure to provide an upper middle class lifestyle - when that isn't going to be realistic for most people on one income ( it isn't going to be realistic for the majority on two incomes for that matter ).

And I have to say in my line of work ( social services with low-income families with a variety of challenges ) ... there are some women who just flat out refuse to look for work because they feel they should get to stay home. Which in an ideal world would be awesome, if that's what they want, but in their current economic situation just isn't feasible.

In my IDEAL world whichever parent was best suited to it would be able to stay home and the family could still afford a decent lifestyle - even if the working parent's job wasn't at a large wage - because not everyone is going to make a ton of money, but they should still get a decent life. Also, ideally, high-quality childcare would be available if both parents chose to work. Having an economic system and social supports that didn't require two incomes to live comfortably would also hugely benefit single parent families, obviously.

And of course this is all based on my own world view and life experiences as well, where it is more of a status symbol to get to stay home (especially if the children are school age)

[alba]

Gay couples raising children together is usually such a deliberate thing. So much planning goes into creating that kind of family. It follows that such families are more likely to be financially and emotionslly stable - to have all their ducks in a row before bringing children aboard. Why is this so difficult for some people to understand? Why is this bad?

Not saying that that's never the case for "regular" families, but so often "regular" families happen accidentally. Not at the best time for all involved.

Yup. LGBT couples are also less likely to have patriarchal ideas that they enforce on their children, leaving them more free to explore whom they are without gendered restrictions.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I had a very nice male friend who worked as a social worker, helping troubled families. He said that he hardly had any families on his books where it was just the Mum on her own. Despite all the additional problems of just one income and just one adult to do all the work, once Mum kicked the bloke out, the problem was gone :(

(I'm not saying here that Dads = trouble, just that in the minority of really troubled families it's normally the man who's going to be causing the dysfunction like sexual abuse / violence).

It's worth noting that "man" isn't always synonymous with "dad." Children are more likely to suffer abuse at the hands of a stepfather or the mom's live-in boyfriend than their biological father.

[Mama Mia]

It's worth noting that "man" isn't always synonymous with "dad." Children are more likely to suffer abuse at the hands of a stepfather or the mom's live-in boyfriend than their biological father.

To the bolded -- male social workers are almost always going to be assigned families with men in them if possible ( whether single dad, couple, or just the current boyfriend is causing problems ). So his case load would naturally be filled with men who were causing problems. There aren't that many men in social work, so they aren't going to be "wasted" on single mom families. It's kind of like if you had a population that was largely English speaking, staff that was largely English speaking but a significant minority of mono-lingual Spanish speakers and one bi-lingual/bi-cultural staff person -- the one Spanish speaking staff member would have a caseload that is almost entirely mono-lingual Spanish speakers. If the Spanish speaking social worker than said that it was almost entirely the Spanish speaking community that had difficulties, it wouldn't really be a fair assessment.

Not to say that having men in the picture doesn't increase some of the risks - and of course there is significant abuse in straight relationships.

[Californiacicle]

Wait, so my father didn't beat the crap out of me or repeatedly rape my mom? I just imagined that? Sweet!