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Explaining The Southern USA To NonSoutherners


debrand

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What kind of opinion do you want? Vivien Leigh is beautiful, the costuming is to die for, the melodrama is palpable and, by the end, tiresome. Why do you say you are going to "go there"?

My grandmother saw the movie in the theaters which I thought was interesting. I read the book when I was a preteen. My only memory is that Scarlett was whiny but I admired her for trying to better her life. Whether I'd like the movie or not, I don't know.

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I'm a white and Native American (American Indian) southerner, from the Smoky Mountains of Western North Carolina, married to a white husband who was born in Louisiana, to Native Louisianans, but was raised in Eastern Tennessee. Most of my family is in North Carolina and Oklahoma, most of his family is in Louisiana and Texas.

Like many Native Americans, many of my relatives moved (or were forcibly moved) to Oklahoma in the 19th century.

By marriage, I have Asian and Jewish relatives. By blood, I have African-American relatives. Some of my ancestors fought for the North in the Civil War, and some of them (including the Cherokee ones--our tribe mainly founght for the Confederacy) fought for the South. My ancestors who fought for the South were wrong, they lost, they deserved to lose, and I wish other Southerners could just embrace that idea and move on with their lives.

A couple of my pet peeves:

1. People forget that Southerners aren't all white. When I hear folks say things like "Southerners are all racist" they probably mean "White Southerners are racist." Please don't marginalize those of us who aren't lily-white.

2. We non-white Southerners can love (aspects of) the South too, for all its terrible faults. Its our home. We gave the rest of the world kick-ass music traditions. And I do love okra. And beignets. And BBQ. I just had dinner with a (black) college classmate of mine last weekend, and he showed me the big glass jar on his mantelpiece full of cotton from fields in his hometown. The South belongs to us, too.

3. Yes, the non-South is probably less overtly racist that the South. But that doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist. There were some mighty ugly fights over busing in big Northern Cities. And anti-American Indian and anti-Hispanic sentiment can be pretty virulent in parts of the West.

4. Some non-Southerners think it is socially acceptable to assume that (white) southerners are ALL stupid and racist. Which they are not, and its rude and irresponsible and classist to assume that. Stereotypes are so much easier than actually thinking, aren't they? : ) My husband really experienced this when we went north to an Ivy League college. He's a big guy, and many people said, to his face, that they assumed that he was there only to play on the football team. (which he did not).

5. I know its wrong, but I LOVE Gone with the Wind. My husband does too. Its a deeply flawed book in its biases, but I think its more complex that people give it credit for. Rhett Butler is totally cynical about the Confederate Cause. The black characters often have more sense than the white characters. There is a lot more exploration of Irish immigration/prejudice in the book than in the movie.

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Simpsonville, SC - The racial makeup of the city was 82.69% White, 13.76% African American, 0.23% Native American, 0.79% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 1.23% from other races, and 1.27% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.65% of the population.

Well, there you have it. In my nearby big city, Charleston (SC): in 2010 it was roughly 63% white, 31% African American, 1.4% Asian, remainder other, two or more or Pacific Islander. Hispanic ethnicity was less, though, about 3%. But on a daily basis, I see people of each race; when I pick my daughter up at school, it looks like the UN. And that's a good thing.

lol. That's still not very diverse!! It matches up almost perfectly with Greenville, SC which is overwhelmingly white (unless you go to specific neighborhoods). 60% white and 30% black does not the UN make.

This is the 2010 census of where I live now: The racial makeup of the city was 52.30% (14,301) White, 30.93% (8,457) Black or African American, 0.31% (84) Native American, 4.30% (1,175) Asian, 0.02% (5) Pacific Islander, 8.37% (2,288) from other races, and 3.79% (1,036) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 23.52% (6,433) of the population.

This is New York City: The city's population in 2010 was 44% white (33.3% non-Hispanic white), 25.5% black (23% non-Hispanic black), and 12.7% Asian. Hispanics of any race represented 28.6% of the population.

I can safely say that neither Charleston nor Greenville are as diverse as Southerners may claim.

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Race in the South is so complicated. I grew up in southern Louisiana (not Cajun, though) and in my mind, there were two races: Black and Not-Black. Black was anyone descended from slaves and sharecroppers. Not-Black was Caucasian, Latino, Indian, Irish, Jewish, Asian -- I was naively unaware of entrenched prejudice against many of those groups, because my young universe was ruled by school desegregation and forced busing, and the only race that counted as "minority" for those purposes was Black. I considered my Bengali and Vietnamese friends white (not that we really thought about it). And I never saw prejudice against Hispanics because so many of the populations who originally settled Louisiana were Spanish or Canary Islanders, and many of these groups were moneyed. If you were a Gonzales, you had founding father status. I was urban, so I wasn't aware of any migrant labor prejudices.

I was really shocked the first time I went on a road trip to Houston and discovered that "spics" garnered the same minority prejudice that "blacks" did at home. I was 18, by myself, and my car had died. I got it towed to the nearest service station. An older white woman came over from a parking lot across the street, took me by the elbow, and hissed, "This station is run by Mexicans, and they'll cheat you. You need to get your car towed somewhere else." Needless to say, I did not. A while later the doe-eyed young Hispanic mechanic, who was about my age, made sure I understood that the garage owner -- an Iranian immigrant -- planned to overcharge me for services, and that I should threaten to call the franchise's toll-free number if my bill was over a certain amount.

My dad was a redneck. My mom was lace-curtain poor. There was a universe of difference between the two.

I may have wandered off topic a bit there. Sorry! This is an interesting thread.

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What kind of opinion do you want? Vivien Leigh is beautiful, the costuming is to die for, the melodrama is palpable and, by the end, tiresome. Why do you say you are going to "go there"?

Whatever opinion you have. Go there, because I'm not sure if it's considered a "polite" subject. :) :) :) It's a beautiful movie (film wise) and not much of a story IMO.

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3. Yes, the non-South is probably less overtly racist that the South. But that doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist. There were some mighty ugly fights over busing in big Northern Cities. And anti-American Indian and anti-Hispanic sentiment can be pretty virulent in parts of the West.

Oh definitely. Re: the busing: I grew up in a large Northern City and went to public elementary school during some major fights over busing within the public school system. It got quite ugly. I remember even my so-called liberal parents were just terrifed over it although I was already in high school by the time it happened at my elementary school.

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Ninth-If your children grow up in the south, they will acquire the accent. It doesn't matter what your heritage, your child will have the southern accent.

That doesn't mean they're stuck with the accent for life though. My grandfather was born and raised in Texas, and when he and my grandmother first got married, he still had his Texas drawl... within 15 years of living in California, it was gone.

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I always like to remind people that not all southerners have a thick southern drawl. When I tell people I'm a born and raised North Carolinian, there are a handful of stereotypes that usually come up, and my accent is usually the top one. My dad and I do have accents but they're not as thick as others I've heard. I don't have a damn clue where our neutral southern accent came from. I don't like it when southerners are considered uneducated just because they have accents.

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Rednecks aren't confined to the South. Go east of Portland, OR, and you'll see some of the reddest rednecks ever in the Columbia Gorge.

Very true. I have lived in several areas within the U.S., south, north, east and west, and outside of the U.S. for that matter. Rednecks are not exclusive to the south.

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I always like to remind people that not all southerners have a thick southern drawl. When I tell people I'm a born and raised North Carolinian, there are a handful of stereotypes that usually come up, and my accent is usually the top one. My dad and I do have accents but they're not as thick as others I've heard. I don't have a damn clue where our neutral southern accent came from. I don't like it when southerners are considered uneducated just because they have accents.

I was talking to someone over the phone. They told me that they loved my accent and asked where I was from. I responded NC and they said, "That's not it." um...yes, it is. I just don't have the thick drawl that actors use to depict southerners.

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I'm a white and Native American (American Indian) southerner, from the Smoky Mountains of Western North Carolina, married to a white husband who was born in Louisiana, to Native Louisianans, but was raised in Eastern Tennessee. Most of my family is in North Carolina and Oklahoma, most of his family is in Louisiana and Texas.

Like many Native Americans, many of my relatives moved (or were forcibly moved) to Oklahoma in the 19th century.

By marriage, I have Asian and Jewish relatives. By blood, I have African-American relatives. Some of my ancestors fought for the North in the Civil War, and some of them (including the Cherokee ones--our tribe mainly founght for the Confederacy) fought for the South. My ancestors who fought for the South were wrong, they lost, they deserved to lose, and I wish other Southerners could just embrace that idea and move on with their lives.

A couple of my pet peeves:

1. People forget that Southerners aren't all white. When I hear folks say things like "Southerners are all racist" they probably mean "White Southerners are racist." Please don't marginalize those of us who aren't lily-white.

2. We non-white Southerners can love (aspects of) the South too, for all its terrible faults. Its our home. We gave the rest of the world kick-ass music traditions. And I do love okra. And beignets. And BBQ. I just had dinner with a (black) college classmate of mine last weekend, and he showed me the big glass jar on his mantelpiece full of cotton from fields in his hometown. The South belongs to us, too.

3. Yes, the non-South is probably less overtly racist that the South. But that doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist. There were some mighty ugly fights over busing in big Northern Cities. And anti-American Indian and anti-Hispanic sentiment can be pretty virulent in parts of the West.

4. Some non-Southerners think it is socially acceptable to assume that (white) southerners are ALL stupid and racist. Which they are not, and its rude and irresponsible and classist to assume that. Stereotypes are so much easier than actually thinking, aren't they? : ) My husband really experienced this when we went north to an Ivy League college. He's a big guy, and many people said, to his face, that they assumed that he was there only to play on the football team. (which he did not).

5. I know its wrong, but I LOVE Gone with the Wind. My husband does too. Its a deeply flawed book in its biases, but I think its more complex that people give it credit for. Rhett Butler is totally cynical about the Confederate Cause. The black characters often have more sense than the white characters. There is a lot more exploration of Irish immigration/prejudice in the book than in the movie.

Regarding your fourth point - I have also experienced this. I have a southern accent, and worked for a major consulting firm in the late 90's. I worked on a project in upstate New York, and a few of the other consultants were from the Boston area. The New Yorkers were wonderful, but the people from Boston assumed that I was an ignorant redneck just based on my accent. Eventually they got to know me and we became friends, but the initial stereotyping really irritated me.

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I always like to remind people that not all southerners have a thick southern drawl. When I tell people I'm a born and raised North Carolinian, there are a handful of stereotypes that usually come up, and my accent is usually the top one. My dad and I do have accents but they're not as thick as others I've heard. I don't have a damn clue where our neutral southern accent came from. I don't like it when southerners are considered uneducated just because they have accents.

I have to admit that I'm horribly prejudiced about accents and I want to sincerely apologize.

I have that generic American accent (I don't sound like I'm "from" anywhere, kind of like the odd accentless newscasters on the national stations if that makes sense) and have always instantly assumed that any strong regional accent = undereducated. I've been trying to break myself of that terribly incorrect belief, but I still sometimes find myself saying "She couldn't even pronounce ____ properly!" or "He seriously said 'yous guys'/'yinz'/'y'all' in his speech?!" *hangs head in shame* I'm seriously sorry for being one of those people.

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I'm from Darlington county in South Carolina. That's BIG NASCAR country and yep my neck is a couple of shades darker than a pretty deep pink ;) I don't consider the term redneck to be derogatory at all; it's just like being a "Bubba". Just a good ol boy or girl that has no pretentions about them. I grew up going mudbogging (holy shit my spell check is going fool!), drinking on dirt roads, and I had to watch racing with the men cause I was just a tomboy like that. I was the only one sober at the end of the race, because it's like fishing and that's always better with a beer or 10 ;) I don't hate the rebel flag, just consider it to be a part of history and was glad when it was taken off the capital building, but wish they would get it off the grounds and just put it behind glass. We lost the damn war, get over it. And I adore Gone with the Wind, but wouldn't want to be a "Miss" Laura as the term is used in the movie. I'd take Rhet over Ashley any day. Things have changed a lot in regard to race, but I remember back in 95 when I worked at the local pharmacy. There was an old man that would step off the sidewalk in the mornings when I was opening up. He would put his head down and step aside. I was 18 and told him that he didn't have to do that. He didn't say a word he just stood aside and waited for me to step back in the store. That has always bothered me and always will. My great grandfather's mom was a full blooded Native American and he told stories about not being allowed to go in stores and shop where the white people went. There were also walk outs regarding race at my high school . Things ain't changed enough there and I don't know if they ever will really. In the big cities like Charleston and Columbia they are incredibly different, but where I grew up I don't think they have reached the 1980's yet in regard to change....that makes me so incredibly depressed and that's why I won't move back there to raise my children. I love to visit and miss my family, but it doesn't feel like home anymore to me.

My best friend's family was from Ohio and to me she talked like a Yankee, but when they went to visit her family up north they always told her she talked like a hick. You should have seen the confusion on their faces when they visited and heard but didn't understand me talk. And yeah the accents that actors affect in movies are sooooo far off that they almost make it impossible for me to enjoy a movie when the vowels are so stretched out I expect them to lose their breath holding out the damn vowel of every damn word. But I do say dahlin, sug (short for sugar), and probably a lot of other things that a Yankee would get annoyed by :oops: I'm not dumb or slow but I do sound kinda like a hick.

As far as the food goes in my idea of heaven there's a buffet of all the soul food I can eat and it will be Health Food :dance:

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Very true. I have lived in several areas within the U.S., south, north, east and west, and outside of the U.S. for that matter. Rednecks are not exclusive to the south.

so beyond true. there are even rednecks in places like fairfield county, connecticut if you know where to look

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I grew up in Texas and moved to Nashville 15 years ago. I thought TX was in the South until I moved here. (Anyone from TX will tell you TX is just TX - and rightly so!) It can be strange here - but mostly a refreshing strange. Slower pace, nicer people. You come to expect that strangers say hello. People still cut each other off on the highway, but you get a friendly wave after! There are many backwoods people and using proper grammar was just a suggestion in school. But, the south is a nice place to live albeit a little strange.

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Southern credentials: Gulf coast of Florida, born and raised.

(I know a lot of people don't consider FL "the South," but I just moved to a more Northern state, and almost everyone up here considers FL part of the South.)

I never thought I had a Southern accent until I moved. Then I started listening to myself talk compared to some new friends who were raised up here and I discovered that I have a slight drawl. I've also gotten some strange looks when I use "y'all" or "all y'all" in regular conversation.

I hate, loathe, and despise the Confederate flag, but I've got friends who display them in their homes. :doh:

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I was talking to someone over the phone. They told me that they loved my accent and asked where I was from. I responded NC and they said, "That's not it." um...yes, it is. I just don't have the thick drawl that actors use to depict southerners.

I used to work at a call center. I'm from the midwest and have a very pronounced almost Canadian accent. It was endlessly amusing to hear people guess where I am from. My favorite was Australia.

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There is a house near me that they built a mound of dirt in the yard, planted grass and then put three giant crosses on it along with a "Jesus died for you" sign. They also have a large Confederate flag hanging up. :roll:

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Fifth-Many southerners are extremely polite and friendly. I was taught to always make my guest comfortable. And polite manners is a point of pride for a southerner. Saying yes sir and no ma'am isn't considered submissive. It means that the person is proud of themselves. It isn't done for you and doesn't mean the person has any particular respect for you.

I was recently Florida for a small conference. Most of the other participants were from the south. Georgia, Kentucky and Alabama. I was born and raised in Connecticut and still live here now my Nana was born and raised in Kentucky. We had a small discussion on the point of addressing women as ma'am.

My personal preference is never to be called ma'am. Just like I don't like being called honey, dear or babe. I don't find it offensive but I just don't like it. However I do understand that it is a sign of respect in the south to address a person as ma'am or sir. This one gentleman in his late 50's was so offended that I didn't want to be addressed as ma'am that after I asked him to just call me by my first name he avoided me for the remainder of the conference I asked him why on the last day. He told me I was very disrespectful of him to request that. I disagreed and told him so. I told him I had every right to request how I am addressed. I also told him that I knew of many women that didn't like to be called ma'am. I did tell him I understood it was a sign of respect for his culture but not for mine. He really didn't understand where I was coming from. He shook his head and walked away in disgust. I was very polite and respectful I feel in my requests and I was somewhat perplexed at his reaction.

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I grew up in rural Northern Alberta, and we proudly call ourselves rednecks. It was very bright white, except for First Nations people, so the only racism we encountered was against the natives.

We don't have the history, the confederate flag, a distinct accent, okra - but a lot of what you say could apply us.

Down East, Albertans are often stereotyped as 'driving pickup trucks with gun racks in the back'.

I find this so interesting - the things we have in common, despite the differences.

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I was talking to someone over the phone. They told me that they loved my accent and asked where I was from. I responded NC and they said, "That's not it." um...yes, it is. I just don't have the thick drawl that actors use to depict southerners.

NC has many different accents. If you grow up in the Piedmont, your accent will differ from someone who grew up on the Outer Banks and *that* accent will differ from someone who grew up in Boone.

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I've lived in South Louisiana my whole life, and I have mixed feelings about it. There are some negative aspects, like racism and yes, the redneck stereotype. Even my best friend (who's from Florida/Arizona) likes to make fun of my accent, and is horribly offended by any suggestion that she might share it. Oddly enough, no one I've talked to within the state can actually place aforementioned accent, which leads to confusion about where I'm actually from - England was one of the guesses!

As for 'ma'am' and 'sir' or 'Mr.' and 'Mrs./Miss,' yeah. I've had adults (anyone older than me by five years) tell me not to call them that, and my mental process just shuts down, because there is no protocol for that. The first time, I just froze and gave them a deer in the headlights look while I tried to figure out what the hell I could call them.

There are a lot of good things about the South. My last car was an absolute lemon, and any time it broke down, I could count on at least one person stopping to help, or at least offer to call someone to help. As for diversity, I think a good reason my city is more diverse than some (68.23% White, 28.51% African American, 0.25% Native American, 1.44% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 0.58% from other races, and 0.97% from two or more races, according to the census) is because we're a college town, and a lot of the alumni end up getting jobs and settling down locally.

All in all, it's a pretty mixed bag here, and I like it, even though I do look forward to finishing school and traveling. It's always going to be home.

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I'm finding this fascinating, though difficult to tell in some cases whether you are being tongue in cheek or trying to stay neutral or what?! When you say 'redneck' are you using that as a pejorative term? Do you really believe that a redneck is a redneck for life and cannot escape or change whatever it is that makes you follow up your assertion with a 'sigh'? It seems harsh.

Redneck can be used as a perjorative, but it originally meant someone who worked outdoors (therefore had a sunburned neck) and was a euphemism for "working class" back when we didn't acknowledge that there were social classes in this country. That said, there's a lot of stereotyping (from the middle and upper classes) about the supposed values and customs of the common redneck.

Most of those of us from blue-collar (or working class, or redneck, if you must) backgrounds who have managed to claw our way into the middle class never really truly "get" the things that continue to set us apart from our colleagues who were raised middle class (RMC). There are so many aspects of social interaction, both subtle and overt, that RMCs understand intuitively and that take the rest of us most of our working lives to figure out. There are differences in values, as well. The differences are evident to the RMCs too, although perhaps not consciously. As my friend's daughter once observed, after being snubbed by her private school classmates, "No matter how many generations you are from the farm you can't ever get the smell of manure off your boots." Anyway, I think that's what the OP meant by "once a redneck, always a redneck".

There's a fascinating book (okay, fascinating to me, the cultural-anthropologist-wannabe) about what it's like to be middle-class with redneck roots, Limbo: Blue-Collar Roots, White-Collar Dreams by Alfred Lubrano. There are some good news stories and reviews on the web if you're curious about what it's like to be a "straddler".

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I grew up in rural Northern Alberta, and we proudly call ourselves rednecks. It was very bright white, except for First Nations people, so the only racism we encountered was against the natives.

We don't have the history, the confederate flag, a distinct accent, okra - but a lot of what you say could apply us.

Down East, Albertans are often stereotyped as 'driving pickup trucks with gun racks in the back'.

I find this so interesting - the things we have in common, despite the differences.

Much to my shame, I have seen people flying the confederate flag in urban Alberta. I never know whether to be more disgusted or baffled. It's not even OUR horrific racism to take "pride" in!

I exodus'd to (urban) BC (like many young lefty Albertans) and it's interesting being on the outside looking in, so to speak. A lot of BC folk expect me to be fiscally and socially conservative and not so conscious of the environment (one wonders why they think I moved?). They are generally horrified by stories of the Wild Rose Party, etc (though I do try to point out we didn't actually vote them into power, in the end). I guess it's like someone from the deep south going off to USF or HSU or whatever.

But a (Calgarian) friend of mine pointed out that she really identifies with the song "sweet home Alabama", which I could understand. It sort of made me more open to the upsides of Texas-North. :)

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