Explaining The Southern USA To NonSoutherners

[debrand]

Reading the racial makeup of other southern hometowns as made me appreciate both Fayetteville and Spring Lake a lot more. According to the wiki entry I posted on the first page, both Spring Lake and Fayetteville are more diverse than the rest of the south. However, crime is really bad here.

In person I say y'all. It doesn't make sense to me that the English language doesn't have a word for plural you.

http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compar ... ille&s2=NC

Depressingly, you are more likely to be murdered in Fayetteville then New York City.

I think that I'd like to live somewhere with the same or more racial diversity, less ma'ams and sirs, and crime.

[Maia68]

De-lurking to add my perspective(and apologies for length and typing on my Kindle): mother's side of my family was southern for generations. They emigrated through north Carolina and settled in Mississippi. We had a few Native American family members, mostly Cherokee. Most were farmers and had little money. A few fought for the Confederacy, but none were wealthy and/or slave owners. My father's grandparents emigrated from Europe at the turn of the century and settled in the Pittsburgh area. Most of them were non-English-speaking Europeans and experienced their own brand of discrimination. After my father served during Korea, he went to college on the GI Bill and moved South, where he met my mother. I grew up in rural south Alabama, with visits to both sides of the family, until we moved to rural northwest Pennsylvania when I was twelve. There was one total black man there, who was a state trooper stationed in the area. Diversity consisted of a range of Caucasians between Swedes and Italians(there were many of both). There were a small amount of families of Asian descent. I later moved back to Alabama and married a black man(I am white), whom I have a son by. We are now divorced, but many of his relatives and I still consider each other family. While there is racism in the south, for the most part we live and work with each other every day, and I think for the most part there is a lot more acceptance and even friendship and love than you will see in other areas of the country. We just have to face it up-front, while other areas pretend that it does not exist. Now I do think that the religion thing is more oppressive: everyone here assumes you are a Christian who should go to church every Sunday and has no problem getting in your business about it(raised southern Baptist and Lutheran, but believe that you cannot confine God/dess to one little box). I have many friends who are homosexual here, but I don't feel qualified to comment on their experience.

I can be as Southern as sweet tea, as can my bi-racial son and black friends/family members. Black people from the south can identify with being southern as much as anyone. There are a lot of things to love about the south, and some ugly things that we have to deal with as well. But I don't think it is any worse here than anywhere else.

[1004srs]

I am from Tennessee.

Our accents are different than some of the other southern areas. I can tell if someone is from Memphis, Jackson or Little Rock within seconds of talking with them. All 3 cities have different accents.

My family was migrant workers as late as the 1960's. Picking cotton. We are as pale as paper and would never refer to ourselves as rednecks.

As far as food - Fried okra, fried green tomatoes, any type of greens cooked with a little seasoning- especially poke salad, corn bread, fried bologna, head cheese or souse, grits with salt and pepper, brains and eggs.....

[formergothardite]

Fried bologna sandwiches with chili and onions and slaw are one of my guilty pleasures.

[Mecca]

Oh man, do I love fried green tomatoes. Not keen on a lot of the other foods, but a big yes to the fried green tomatoes deal.

[darareaksmey]

Sorta OT, but I have often wondered how people from the north (if you consider yourself a northener, then I mean you) feel about the term "Yankee." I was raised hearing it used as a perjorative and used about anyone from outside the deep south, the Mason Dixon line and slaveholdings notwithstanding. My mother (88) still flings it about in a disapproving way. Do northerners take umbrage, or embrace it; or don't you care one way or the other?

[BlondeAsTheyCome]

I can't speak for all Northerners, but I kind of like the term Yankee. I have cousins who are born and raised in Georgia. They refer to coming to visit family as going to see the Yankees. To me, it's endearing. It might have different connotations to other people though.

[HereticHick]

I agree with Maia--the religion thing can be more oppressive in the South than the racism, because it gets a lot more endorsement from society and local government. Everyone "knows" that they shouldn't be racist--but they truly don't all know that they shouldn't try to inflict their religion on everyone (especially if they attend a very evangelical church that tells them it is their Christian duty to convert others, for their own good).

Back home we had prayers over the intercom at the beginning of school (public school) and at the beginning of the football games. Very Protestant, Jesus-y prayers.

In my hometown, the question is not What religion are you/Do you attend a church but WHERE Do you go to Church? The general assumption is that absolutely everyone must be attending a Protestant church--Sundays, and maybe Wed. evenings as well. And that applies to white/blacks/native americans equally.

Non-Christians are a lot more exotic, and a lot more suspect, to the locals than African-Americans or Native Americans are.

As for okra, its all in how you cook it. We are having a big Mardi Gras dinner this weekend with a big pot of gumbo (with okra in it). Y'all should come over!

[Today's fun fact= "okra" and "gumbo" are both West African words for "okra". I think one is Igbo and the other is Bantu]

[PennySycamore]

Spider Burps, I didn't know you grew up in Simpsonville and then went to App State! I live just up highway 14 near Greer. I don't have much of a Southern accent, but my siblings do. I like to say I lost my accent when I went to UGA. I never thought I'd live in the South as an adult so I tended to lose the little bit of accent I had. I don't think of either of my parents as having a strong accent. My mom was an upstate South Cackilacky girl and my dad was from Kentucky. They met when they were students at Berea College in the 40s. None of my girls have strong accents. My husband is from Maryland so that might help. My youngest has had to lose what accent she does have for TV. I don't know if there's anything to my supposition, but I think that people who grew up west of the Appalachians have a more rapid cadence to their speech than those people who grew up east of the mountains.

As for the food, some of it is good and some isn't. I like well made biscuits, but not smothered with gravy. I like southern green beans which to some palates are cooked to death, but, simmered almost until they burn, they are delicious. I like good Southern literature: Flannery O'Connor, Faulkner, Robert Penn Warren, Harper Lee, Eudora Welty*, and etc.

I've only read a little bit of GWTW, but I've seen the movie many times. I agree with the previous poster who said that Viv Leigh was beautiful as Scarlett and the costumes were gorgeous, but I found the latter part of the film a bit tedious. FWIW, a history prof at Furman University told us that one of her grad school professors would always write "Too GWTW" on students' papers if they were all moonlight and magnolias about the old South. I hope that had I lived in the antebellum era, I would have been like one of the Grimke sisters.

*Eudora's been on my mind today because of her short story "Why I Live at the P.O."

[Maia68]

And, seriously, the answer to the okra problem is bread it and fry it! I can't stand boiled/smushy/slimy okra(boy autocorrect hates that word), but fry it and it is the bomb! As are fried green tomatoes! Add them to fried shrimp and catfish along with other southern raves that cannot be part of my diet except for rare occasions, and OMG! The best!

[Shasta ODonegal]

Heretic Hick, I loved your post. It spoke to my experience as a first generation American (Central American/North African/Greek) on one side of the fam and old school southerner (Euromutt/Tslagi) on the other.

Sweetpea1 : GWTW and Steel Magnolias (aka Dah Shelby, DAH!) make me want to run naked and screaming into rush hour traffic. I read Mitchell's book before I saw the movie. Honestly, if anyone ever wanted to make a Southern Tarot Deck, nearly every Southern archetype is present. You could make a GWTW major arcana and still have some characters left over.

(Admission: Robert Harling is a pissy bitch for not letting a man play Truvy in a Memphis production of Steel Magnolias. He could bring back Firefly and I'd still blow raspberries in his general direction.)

About southern food:

1. You've never eaten at my house.

2. Yer not gonna, either.

3. More for me, chooches. Now pass the Sri Racha and 'scuse yourselves.

About "The Flag"

Not a fan. It belongs in a museum and nowhere else.

[ksuheather]

Mr. ksuheather was born and raised in eastern NC and has zero accent except when he says "oil". His dad was retired Air Force and has no accent and his mom is a Yankee. He has one brother who works in IT and has no accent at all. His other brother is a police officer and has a mild accent but not the horrible drawl that comes to mind. His other relatives have more of a gentle brogue from the coast as opposed to the drawl.

I kid DH all the time that he isn't truly a southerner because he hates collards, watermelon and fried chicken where as his Kansas born and raised wife adores all southern food. :)

[HereticHick]

But but but, if it weren't for Steel Magnolias, I'd never get to say "Blush and Bashful" whenever anyone asks me what my favorite colors are! :D

All you Cherokee sistas out there, I have some possum recipes if you ever need 'em. [No, I haven't actually ever cooked possum--its awful fatty]. ;)

Besides, I wouldn't do that to my sweet avatar, Pogo!

You know, I don't mind at all if anyone calls me "suge" or "honey" or "ma'am" or "punkin"--I just don't view it as pejorative--and sometimes I call other people things like that [regardless of race, gender or age].

Confederate flag--absolutely belongs in a museum.

PS I hate collards too. And I need my grits to have a whole lot of butter & shrimp yumminess in them. But now y'all ahve got me craving catfish.

[blisterine]

And, seriously, the answer to the okra problem is bread it and fry it! I can't stand boiled/smushy/slimy okra(boy autocorrect hates that word), but fry it and it is the bomb! As are fried green tomatoes! Add them to fried shrimp and catfish along with other southern raves that cannot be part of my diet except for rare occasions, and OMG! The best!

try dipping fried okra in ranch dressing! i was with friends at a restaurant and i ordered it before they arrived. we were all eating it as an appetizer and wanted a reorder. i told the waitress i wanted another order of fried okra and one of my friends interrupted me that he didn't like okra. i hated telling him that was what he had been eating and drooling over just minutes ago. he looked so confused!

my great-grandmother was one of those southern cooks who cooked the hell out of everything. later, i realized that things i thought i hated were actually tasty if you don't cook them to death.

i had a southern accent until i got a job in a call center and had so many callers make fun of me. i "purposed" to lose my accent, but it still comes out when i'm mad.

i have a friend who comes from a southern military family but he has an unusual accent. turns out he was the only child who was born in biloxi, ms. and learned to talk while they were stationed there. so environment has a lot to do with it. the outcome: he talks like boomhauer from "king of the hill"!

not all rednacks are poor. there is nothing worse than a redneck with a little money though. they have every toy you can think of like four wheelers, huge expensive pick-up trucks with all the options and expensive tatoos. the ones i know spend a fortune on beer and marlboros. but they usually live in trailers or substandard housing, and have no desire to live in anything better. think cousin eddie from the "national lampoon's vacation" movies.

[gustava]

Good article on the South. While written from a political perspective, it does a good job of explaining why the South is ...the South.

Born in Virginia, grew up in South Carolina, back in Virginia. Weird places, to be sure.

[kb2]

Credentials: lived in various parts of Louisiana my whole life.

I loved Gone With The Wind in a train-wrecky way, like, look at how racist this book is, and that Scarlett really is terrible at making good decisions. Not as anything that needed to be emulated in any way.

The South is definitely racist. It's kind of weird how racism exists on a continuum--for instance, I consider my grandparents pretty racist, but they have (older) Black friendquaintances who have told me they are less of assholes than other White people their age, which kind of floors me. Even in areas with a diverse population, the South can be very socially segregated with majority-White schools and majority-Black schools and majority-White churches and majority-Black churches. Although I visited Pittsburgh once and a cab driver told me, "I really admire what that David Duke was trying to do," so I give claims that the North is less racist the side eye. That's probably unfair since it's only n=1, but there you go.

[Spider Burps]

Spider Burps, I didn't know you grew up in Simpsonville and then went to App State! I live just up highway 14 near Greer.

Small world! My SIL and her family lived in Greer (well, they still do in name, but I'd call where they live now Simpsonville).

We'll have to get together next time I'm down. We can go to BJU and poke the fundies! :lol: I'll wear my denim skirt and Michelle Duggar JC Penney shirt!

[darareaksmey]

I can't speak for all Northerners, but I kind of like the term Yankee. I have cousins who are born and raised in Georgia. They refer to coming to visit family as going to see the Yankees. To me, it's endearing. It might have different connotations to other people though.

We did a bit of that too when I was a kid. My dad's family from Pennsylvania was The Yankees, and there was nothing as exciting as having The Yankees come visit. They always wanted oatmeal for breakfast, or cream of wheat, instead of grits--too exotic for my young self!

[darareaksmey]

And, seriously, the answer to the okra problem is bread it and fry it! I can't stand boiled/smushy/slimy okra(boy autocorrect hates that word), but fry it and it is the bomb! As are fried green tomatoes! Add them to fried shrimp and catfish along with other southern raves that cannot be part of my diet except for rare occasions, and OMG! The best!

Okra is one thing about being southern I can't reconcile with. I loathe and despise it. When I was a kid I would sometimes go with my mom to pick it at her brother's farm. It was hard to pick; the plants are low to the ground and gave off some sort of milky substance that made you all itchy. And then there were the nasty caterpillars that loved to feast on okra plants--big fat dudes that grossed me completely out. I refused to eat it as a kid becausse I was so disgusted by picking it; and I carry that disgust to this day. I don't eat collards either, but I could probably be persuaded to have some. But no okra, fried or stewed or however. Bleah.

[Ex 2x2]

I haven't read this whole thread, but my experiences are very similar to the OP's. Apart from the racism, I LOVE the South. Love the food, culture, etc. To me, the movie Sweet Home Alabama is a great depiction of the South. However, I do know some southerners who found it offensive and thought it was making fun of the South. (Reece Witherspoon is southern, herself, fwiw.) The best line of the movie, "Honey, just 'cause I talk slow doesn't mean I'm stupid." I married a northerner, and I cannot tell you how many people, when we visit his family, treat me like I'm stupid when they hear my accent. Meh, whatever.

As for the racism, yes, it's real and alive. I went to a high school that was probably about 50/50 african american and caucasian. Now it's probably more like 50 % african american, 25 hispanic and 25 caucasian. I knew some racists, but I would say there are just as many people like me, who grew up hating racism b/c I was exposed to it constantly. I have now, as an adult, lived in various parts of the country, and I have encountered racism everywhere. It's more blatant in the south, but it's alive in other places as well.

edited b/c math, it's important

[HereticHick]

To quote one of my idols, Dolly Parton: "I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb...and I also know that I'm not blonde."

My husband cooks the best okra-- no breading, just sliced & sauteed in olive oil with a bit of salt and pepper! Crispy goodness with no slime!

But yeah, okra is a bitch to harvest.

And there are indeed too many old southern cooks who boil vegetables to death & suck all the nutrients & flavor out of them. So mushy you can gum them. My paternal grandma did that--and she was mainly cooking veggies she had canned.

[BravaAmica]

Good article on the South. While written from a political perspective, it does a good job of explaining why the South is ...the South.

Born in Virginia, grew up in South Carolina, back in Virginia. Weird places, to be sure.

Can you please post the link to the article?

[PennySycamore]

Small world! My SIL and her family lived in Greer (well, they still do in name, but I'd call where they live now Simpsonville).

We'll have to get together next time I'm down. We can go to BJU and poke the fundies! :lol: I'll wear my denim skirt and Michelle Duggar JC Penney shirt!

That sounds great!

[GeoBQn]

Sorta OT, but I have often wondered how people from the north (if you consider yourself a northener, then I mean you) feel about the term "Yankee." I was raised hearing it used as a perjorative and used about anyone from outside the deep south, the Mason Dixon line and slaveholdings notwithstanding. My mother (88) still flings it about in a disapproving way. Do northerners take umbrage, or embrace it; or don't you care one way or the other?

The word "Yankee" is so out of the realm of my personal experience (I have lived in the Midwest my entire life, and my family didn't come to America until about 40 years after the Civil War) that I would be REALLY confused if someone called me that. I wouldn't know if they were joking or serious.

My brother once went to the University of Tennessee to visit a friend. When he said that he could visit by train the next time, one of the friend's friends shouted, "Trains?!? Y'all Yankees dun bombed our railroads!" My brother had absolutely no clue how to respond.

[PennySycamore]

Okra is one thing about being southern I can't reconcile with. I loathe and despise it. When I was a kid I would sometimes go with my mom to pick it at her brother's farm. It was hard to pick; the plants are low to the ground and gave off some sort of milky substance that made you all itchy. And then there were the nasty caterpillars that loved to feast on okra plants--big fat dudes that grossed me completely out. I refused to eat it as a kid becausse I was so disgusted by picking it; and I carry that disgust to this day. I don't eat collards either, but I could probably be persuaded to have some. But no okra, fried or stewed or however. Bleah.

Well, there is Clemson Spineless Okra which should be easier to pick. I don't think it would make the okra any less caterpillar-y though. Why does writing that sentence remind me of the way that my girls used to say caterpillar as callipitter?