More doctor paranoia

[notsocommon]

I have more than one friend who are all anti dr, anti med, crunchy granola types. Odd thing is that they/ their kids do not look healthy at all. Their color is off, and one family in particular smells....funky. It isn't stinky, but just an odd odor. :? Oh, and they are always sick.

I'll take how my family does things, moderation and enjoy our food. Dd and I are rarely sick.

[wild little fox]

If an adult wants to forego medical treatment for whatever reason, it is fine by me. But children is another thing all together. Especially those who are too young or too ill to say how they feel.

[TMS]

Same here. We don't see the doctor for every little thing, but we are military and get free medical care, so that is never a concern. We see the doctor when it's necessary. My kids have all their vaccines. The only one who seems to pick up viruses the most is my youngest, but that's understandable since she IS still in elementary school. She picked up type-A flu last year, and the reason I know what it was is because I took her to the doctor and had her tested. No one else in the family caught it, though. My teens are rarely sick! I see families who are anti-vax, rarely go to the doctor because "that's where you catch germs," home-school, eat only organic diets etc. - yet they are still sick all the time.

[Jessica]

I get avoiding docs who will drop antibiotics on an illness without confirming an infection (many clinics have labs where you can test for things like strep or UTI's on site, and giving antibiotics for a virus or self-limiting infection just creates superbugs), but you don't play around with a young baby with a high temp.

This.

My son has had two febrile seizures, which are sparked by high fevers. So when I see people pin that "Why I don't reduce fevers and what to do instead" post on Pinterest, my blood just boils. Tylenol is horrible but watching your toddler's eyes roll back in his head, his face turn dark purple, and bubbles come from his mouth and nose while his whole body locks up and jerks back and forth is a-okay.

[Slt]

Same here. We don't see the doctor for every little thing, but we are military and get free medical care, so that is never a concern. We see the doctor when it's necessary. My kids have all their vaccines. The only one who seems to pick up viruses the most is my youngest, but that's understandable since she IS still in elementary school. She picked up type-A flu last year, and the reason I know what it was is because I took her to the doctor and had her tested. No one else in the family caught it, though. My teens are rarely sick! I see families who are anti-vax, rarely go to the doctor because "that's where you catch germs," home-school, eat only organic diets etc. - yet they are still sick all the time.

My family (my toddler, my DH and myself) fought a really bad cold for about a week, but just got over it. It was pretty mild and it was the first time DH and I have been sick in about 3 years, and the first time DS had ever been sick. We get the flu shot every year, and we also get a lot of exposure to illness (both working closely with the public). When asked by FIL the other day if I agreed the flu shot killed more than the flu virus itself, I disagreed. I further backed it up by the VAERS website, and the number isn't even close- he responded to me that he doesn't trust my medical knowledge anyway (or apparently the credentials after my name that I worked my ass off to get) because "look how often you all have been sick this year, and my family hasn't been sick once."

After thinking about it for a moment, and realizing that my MIL, SIL and BIL (who live at home) have each been sick about 4 times this season- I snapped back in my smart ass way. Some people aren't worth the breath to argue with...

Just like the above referenced homeschoolers who eat so "healthy" and don't believe in vaccinating and "never get sick." :roll:

[PhiMuLady]

I work in epidemiology and people with this line of thinking are part of what keeps me employed.

[J'ean Skirt]

Oh certainly. Magical thinking happens over there too, no doubt about it.

My favorite part? Big Pharma owns most of the supplement companies.

:violence-stickwhack: :violence-stickwhack:

[treehugger]

I'm pretty crunchy/granola/hippie (whatever you want to call it) myself. I make my own body butters, laundry soaps, household cleaners, burn essential oils, and drink elderberry syrup. This kind of thinking however, makes me want to do this :angry-banghead:

I grew up in a Third World country and I KNOW what happens when there is no medical care. I know people who would have sold their houses to be able to see a doctor and get help. They had their witch-doctors and their brews (believe me, some of those "cures" were far, far worse than any drugs!) and they still would have rather seen a real doctor. (I vaccinate my baby - I have seen the effects of polio, tb, hepatitis, ect.... but that is another topic).

Anyways, I also have several MD friends, who sacrifice a great deal to care for people they don't even know. I would wager most doctors would rather help people than do whatever nasty stuff people think they do.

I just do not understand people who don't accept that it was advances in medicine that has saved so many lives and increased the quality of life. I mean really, you would think all doctors were the spawn of Satan and drugs are the drink of death :roll:

[Librul]

PhiMuLady just want to say your pin is awesome. Panhellenically yrs, Librul.

now, back to the snark! lots of crazy on pinterest..fundies & jeebus, cream of crap soup recipes and BAD medical advice.

[SoybeanQueen]

I have a family member who is into the paranoia/doomsday stuff. According to him, doctors are part of the government conspiracy and they give us drugs as part of the government plan to control our minds. You may *think* it's an antibiotic, but it's probably a mind control drug. He once went on a lengthy rant about antidepressants and how they caused mass shootings because the government wants gun control so they're using the mind control drugs to make people shoot. And that's why all of the mass shooters were on antidepressants? I wasn't totally clear on the whole thing, because I was kicking my husband under the table to keep him from laughing since I take one of the drugs he was ranting about. This post is probably a form of government mind control.

Oh, I also had a coworker years ago who believed that you shouldn't get your kids vaccinated because the government uses the mandatory vaccinations to insert microchips for tracking. Doctors are crazy evil, yo.

[SoybeanQueen]

I'm with most of you on the "medicate when necessary" train. I give ibuprofen or tylenol if one of my kids is uncomfortable, which they often are when they have a fever. You medicate the kid, not the fever. When my infant son has a fever, I give him an appropriate dose because he can't tell me if something hurts, and I don't want him to suffer. He had a high fever at 7 weeks and was admitted to the hospital for 2 days while they ran every test known to man. Nothing turned up, so there was no treatment. Just waiting. I guess the tests turned out to be unnecessary, but what if he had meningitis? Waiting on his fever to go down could have killed him.

We've just finished the great stomach virus of 2013 in our house. The baby has had the longest-lasting symptoms. However, he's not dehydrated, and he's eating/drinking fine, so I haven't taken him to the doctor. The temptation is there, because my baby is sick, but there's not much you can do for a stomach virus except wait. Plus, I think he picked up the bug at the doctor's office, so I'd like to avoid leaving more germs around for another family to find. Maybe other families don't have sons who lick the tables at the doctor's office?

[Slt]

I'm with most of you on the "medicate when necessary" train. I give ibuprofen or tylenol if one of my kids is uncomfortable, which they often are when they have a fever. You medicate the kid, not the fever. When my infant son has a fever, I give him an appropriate dose because he can't tell me if something hurts, and I don't want him to suffer. He had a high fever at 7 weeks and was admitted to the hospital for 2 days while they ran every test known to man. Nothing turned up, so there was no treatment. Just waiting. I guess the tests turned out to be unnecessary, but what if he had meningitis? Waiting on his fever to go down could have killed him.

We've just finished the great stomach virus of 2013 in our house. The baby has had the longest-lasting symptoms. However, he's not dehydrated, and he's eating/drinking fine, so I haven't taken him to the doctor. The temptation is there, because my baby is sick, but there's not much you can do for a stomach virus except wait. Plus, I think he picked up the bug at the doctor's office, so I'd like to avoid leaving more germs around for another family to find. Maybe other families don't have sons who lick the tables at the doctor's office?

You are doing the right thing. Especially at this time of the year, staying far away from the doc is the best place to be! And trust me, I also had the temptation (and even random panic!) when LO was sick- and I worked for the doctor's office that he now goes to for 5 years. It's totally different being a mom to a sick child than being a nurse to sick children (who are not yours).

I agree with treating the child not the fever- I can't wait until my LO is old enough to tell me when he is uncomfortable! I swear I should take stock in Motrin. When he is teething, he wakes up several times a night if he isn't dosed before bed. So, that leads to a week straight of pre-bedtime Motrin... and a broke mom!

[maybeizfundie]

I really dislike the doctor-hatred. Especially because two docs raised me. :D When I was a teen I went through a "natural" phase and gave them a little grief but truthfully my experiences with doctors has *not* been overmedication or general stupidity. I've encountered some fat-phobia/bias, and some limitations due to insurance and liability, but that doesn't make them evil money-grubbing people haters, you know?

:?

The doctors I know put a *lot* of time in to studying and keeping up with medical information. They put a *lot* of effort and heart into taking care of their patients. They are not taking kickbacks. They are not just throwing antibiotics at patients to shut them up and ge them out of the office.

Are there some bad docs, sure. Jaded, biased, etc etc. whatever whatever? Sure. So find a new doctor.

[Minerva]

I've seen criticism of big pharma on the left, too. Fortunately, besides Hellatrix, everything I've seen has been reasonable. It's not that there aren't issues with pharmaceutical companies, but you can acknowledge them without being Hellatrix or Lori.

[maybeizfundie]

Oh, and fevers in general, I have never gotten the impression from my parents or other doctors that I'm supposed to slam every fever with hefty doses of Tylenol. Never.

Running warm? Probably fine. Fluids and rest. High fever? Start to work on that. Because the body *doesn't* always work perfectly and high fever in young kids is not safe. I can can't the number of times I've been advised to dose a fever on my hands, and I have 4 kids. They are rarely sick enough and I havent't found doctors to actually be that medicine happy, in real life.

Heck, the *maternal fetal specialist* that I saw, you know the doc who specializes in risky pregnancies was all "Oh, I think you can totally have a birth center birth." when we saw him. I went downhill after that and still ended up in the hospital. But I was shocked that he didn't leap across the desk and say "NO! We SHALL slice you and dice you! You are a RISK! C-section!" given all the nasty things I'd heard about OBs.

[YPestis]

It is intriguing that we get people who distrust the medical establishment and will rail on about evil pharms and docs out to get you, and then turn around and spend thousands on pills and "holistic" medicine that's unproven and not regulated. I've noticed this attitude prevalent with anti-establishment types such as fundies and hippies. These two groups seem to share a common distrust of hierarchical organizations and a distaste for "mainstream" ideas. Living in an "alternative" lifestyle just appeals to a certain segment of the population I guess. Sadly, that attitude can filter into modern medicine as well.

As for poor physician experiences, I feel it's due to the doctor not explaining the medical diagnosis/treatment properly or the patient failing to express their concerns. I believe most patients can find common ground with the physician if the doctor can successfully address the patient's concerns. Sadly, modern medical practice doesn't allow for enough time to be spent on educating patients, and patients don't always feel comfortable imparting sensitive matters to a stranger.

That said, from my limited patient experience, I feel some of the best and worst patients are moderately educated individuals who can be resourceful but also overly confident in their medical know-how. They may know enough to have a basic understanding of viruses and treatments but not enough to understand the deeper pathophysiology. Some are great patients because they are reliable with their medical care and easily understand their conditions and treatments. Others come in with printouts from the internet that, confident they just cured themselves and the doctor just didn't read this new website that explains it all.

My SO says he gets mildly flustered when he sees patients waving pages of documents in front of him. Invariably, they are from junk sites or "natural" doctors who offer a cure for $99.99. "If they brought in an article from pubmed, it would be a different thing!", he used to tell me.

There are exceptions, off course. My husband once had a patient come in with a well written, peer-reviewed article on a new treatment, and hubby took a copy of it home. It seems our patients have many ways of teaching us.

[Cran]

While I think it is irresponsible not to see a doctor when a baby is running a high fever (or anybody is running a high fever) I also distrust doctors and get often a second opinion. So I applaud her statement that you're not handing over the reigns to the doctor and he gets to decide everything that happens. Yes, he is a professional, but he also makes mistakes or might have his own "philosophy" that might interfere.

My most recent example: I saw another dentist than my usual one because he's an expert on implants, and he wanted to make me around 15 fillings, and said, when confronted with the fact my usual dentist saw no necessity for them, that he probably couldn't recognize caries when he saw it.... well, so I saw a third dentist, who confirmed my dentist's opinion of those brown spots being caries sicca (non-progressing), and that nothing needed to be done, only if I wanted it for cosmetic reasons.

So here doing without question what the doctor said would have gotten me 15 fillings, which do not make the teeth any better.

A friend of mine was pressured to have a caesarean because "the baby was so big". As this had been never mentioned before, she got a second opinion, who thought the baby not to be big at all. Maybe the recommendation for caesarean. had more to do with her due date on the 31.12....?

And so on, I guess everybody knows stories like this - but getting a second opinion is still getting medical advice and ultimately treatment, and not just leaving the child at home, thinking all will be fine when you have no means to accurately gauge how sick it really is.

[Slt]

I think the point is that even people who trust medical professionals do not do so blindly. It takes critical thinking and knowledge, and if you aren't comfortable seek a second opinion. Furthermore, search for a doctor you trust. My son goes to one of the (ten) docs I worked for. He is my favorite and most trusted of the bunch. He is laid back and doesn't overtreat. He is up to date on the latest research, but doesn't freak out when I do alternative things like cloth diapering and baby led weaning ( introducing solids, not weaning from the breast).

I have the same relationship with my OB. When I pushed a cesarean for my ten pounder, he trusted that I had done the research, talked with me extensively about the procedure, etc. and made me such a pretty incision line that is now invisible a year later. :)