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More doctor paranoia


dairyfreelife

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creativechristianmama.com/why-i-dont-lower-fevers-part-one/

You may want to have the baby checked by a doc, but make sure that it is a doctor who will not over-react and medicate “just to be on the safe sideâ€. And remember that you are asking for their medical opinion, you are not handing over the reigns of decision-making to them. You are the parent and you get to choose what medical advice to take and what advice to decline.

I would recommend making sure that you have a naturally-minded doctor who will not over-medicate. If they can’t give you a good medically-based reason to give drugs, seek a second opinion or simply decline their advice, depending on the situation.

What is it with more and more fundamentalist Christians having this fear, actually it's often close to a paranoia, about medicines and doctors. If you have a fear of doctors, just admit it. Lots of people have a phobia about doctors and/or dentists or even needles that make them afraid of going to a doctor or dentist. People live longer, healthier lives because of modern medicine and doctors.

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I don't know but there's this view out that there "drugs" are evil or at best a "crutch" of sort that just let you cheat at life. People hear "drugs" and just think "bad." Same with "chemicals."

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creativechristianmama.com/why-i-dont-lower-fevers-part-one/

What is it with more and more fundamentalist Christians having this fear, actually it's often close to a paranoia, about medicines and doctors. If you have a fear of doctors, just admit it. Lots of people have a phobia about doctors and/or dentists or even needles that make them afraid of going to a doctor or dentist. People live longer, healthier lives because of modern medicine and doctors.

It's not just fundies, unfortunately. Not to say that all doctors are infallible and/or awesome, but there seems to be this weird idea out there that there's some sort of mass conspiracy of medical professionals to force patients to their will.

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I get avoiding docs who will drop antibiotics on an illness without confirming an infection (many clinics have labs where you can test for things like strep or UTI's on site, and giving antibiotics for a virus or self-limiting infection just creates superbugs), but you don't play around with a young baby with a high temp.

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I get avoiding docs who will drop antibiotics on an illness without confirming an infection (many clinics have labs where you can test for things like strep or UTI's on site, and giving antibiotics for a virus or self-limiting infection just creates superbugs), but you don't play around with a young baby with a high temp.

This. I don't think a lot of doctors are out to get people, but I do think a lot of doctors toss out medications out of laziness.

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This. I don't think a lot of doctors are out to get people, but I do think a lot of doctors toss out medications out of laziness.

Laziness or the desire to be seen doing something, maybe. I had a nasty bronchial tube infection a couple years back, to the point where by the time I got in to see a doctor I was coughing up flecks of blood because my throat was so ripped up. The verdict was 50-50 bacterial or virus with no test (or at least no test available there, I don't think I asked if I could get one elsewhere)...if it was viral, it would clear up in another 3-4 days based on what was going around and there was nothing to do but wait, if it was bacterial it would likely be another month unless I got some serious antibiotics. His suggestion was that I start taking antibiotics, and if it cleared up by the weekend oh well. He did make a point of telling me to keep taking the antibiotics even if it cleared up, which was something, but it seemed kind of strange to me to advise that when it would only be a couple more days to know for sure (or at least much more sure).

For the record it did actually end up being bacterial, but I waited the four days to make sure it didn't clear up on its own before filling the prescription. I know there are people who can't always afford to wait for job/life reasons (I'm very lucky that I can work from home when I need to, and I'm sure my coworkers appreciated that too), but on the other hand passing out unneeded medication isn't helping out on the superbug front.

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This kills me. As a nurse, I shudder every time I see something like this. I have some hippie/fundie/crunchy friends on Pinterest and I HATE seeing all of these damn pins like that- don't medicate your baby for a fever! It would also kill me when moms would bring their babies with a fever of 104 into the office, unmedicated, because they didn't think we'd believe them otherwise. A little fever is fine after a certain age (at least 3 months, preferably 6 months or older) and I don't medicate my son every time he has a low grade fever. If it is over 101, you can bet he is getting his appropriate ibuprofen dose. Do you remember how shitty it feels to have a fever? Nothing like torturing your children (and putting them into danger) for no reason.

ETA: I am also surrounded by stupid on a daily basis. My ILs have started this anti-med, anti-doc campaign that has only worsened over the years, and I've been called a "drug pusher" more than once. Luckily, my DH also thinks they're a nutty bunch. Every time we go to their house, the ride home is full of steaming over the ridiculousness that was thrown at me that visit. Ugggg.

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I get avoiding docs who will drop antibiotics on an illness without confirming an infection (many clinics have labs where you can test for things like strep or UTI's on site, and giving antibiotics for a virus or self-limiting infection just creates superbugs), but you don't play around with a young baby with a high temp.

Yeah, this.

I would generally agree with most of the original quotes as posted here (out of context)... I think it is great for people to educate themselves (using legitimate, scientific sources and possibly with guidance from their doctor), and especially with more complicated cases it can be important to understand your/your child's disease and what different options mean. It's also important to know your right to ultimately decide on your/your child's treatment. Similarly, I see nothing wrong with standing up for yourself or your child if you believe you are getting inadequate care.

That being said, high fevers, especially with a baby, are dangerous.

What about brain damage??

Brain damage is not a real concern until the temperature rises over at least 107.6 degrees.

The human body doesn’t raise it’s temperature above 105 to 106 degrees in response to a virus or bacteria (source).

1. If you wait until you hit that "magical" 107.6* to seek medical care, you have seriously screwed yourself/your child over.

2. Her source, while legit, says infections SELDOM raise temperature to 105-6. (Ahem, uh, "seldom" =/= "never". Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.) Guess why, most infections are not that serious and will resolve themselves so no, they are not going to raise your fever that high. But if you DO have a fever that's 105-6, I'd be worried about something like sepsis so NOT SOMETHING TO IGNORE. Oh wait, it's not 107.6 :roll:

Her stuff about febrile seizures is mostly fine; usually, they are not a big deal and kids grow out of them. However, I am wondering what parent would let their child seize for an hour without seeking medical attention. Because... #1 I can't fathom a parent just sitting there watching their child seize that long without thinking something is wrong and being worried enough to seek medical care? And #2 it doesn't matter the cause of the seizure, a long seizure has potential to cause brain damage - future seizure disorders are not your only concern in this situation, it's an immediate concern too.

A high fever does not necessarily indicate serious illness. I’ve had a fever over 103 for nothing more than a cold.

You are an adult and this is normal and usually not a cause of concern in an adult. This is a HIGH fever in a young child and especially in a baby.

The one thing I don't really understand logically, is that many drugs are derived from natural remedies (eg aspirin). They are just purified and maybe combined with other ingredients. I have nothing against supplements and the like, per se, but to me it just seems like you could get the same benefits and side effects from a drug and its natural equivalent, so I don't understand (logically, I know fundies are not logical - not just a fundy thing either) how drugs are soooo bad.

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The one thing I don't really understand logically, is that many drugs are derived from natural remedies (eg aspirin). They are just purified and maybe combined with other ingredients. I have nothing against supplements and the like, per se, but to me it just seems like you could get the same benefits and side effects from a drug and its natural equivalent, so I don't understand (logically, I know fundies are not logical - not just a fundy thing either) how drugs are soooo bad.

This is my biggest issue. They'd rather take 15 supplements of god knows what, many of which are manufactured in China, without any FDA regulation of what is in it than pop an Advil when it is needed. It seems like the fear of "bad chemicals" is severely misplaced. I have no issue with supplements- if they are studied and tested independently frequently as to their purity- but most are NOT.

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Because you don't want to give your children drugs do you?! Drugz R bad! Eat more spinach!

I truly hate that line of thinking.

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These people dont realise that people could die of the most easily curable illnesses before we had modern medicine. If eating certain foods or praying worked, people wouldnt have even started seeking out better alternatives.

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For the 107.6 thing...I wonder what they'd say to me? My baseline temp since I was about 16 has been 97.2 degrees. When I get up to 98.6, I know that I'm not quite sick yet, but I'll be there in under 24 hours. 104 or 105 is different for me than for someone whose baseline temperature is higher.

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You don't usually have to treat a fever because of hyperthermia, but pediatricians usually want to see kids who have fevers to make sure they're not getting dehydrated or having other complications from an illness serious enough to cause a fever. Plus, I had a fever, oh, yesterday, and it really made me feel terrible--I wouldn't withhold meds from a kid because it "only" made them feel better but they'd live either way.

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. My ILs have started this anti-med, anti-doc campaign that has only worsened over the years, and I've been called a "drug pusher" more than once. Luckily, my DH also thinks they're a nutty bunch.

I feel your pain. Among the inlaw's is/was a BIL and his wife who, when she was diagnosed with cancer, decided to forego chemo (poisons) and go with prayer, diet and vitamin c. She had a nice funeral. Another in-law is constantly railing about big pharma, but spends nearly as much on natural supplements each month as he spends on his mortgage, and about once a year starts a multi month long trek to countless specialists to help figure out what his esoteric disease of the year is (basically, he's in an extended mid life crisis--he's been told as much by physicians, and noted it himself a time or two, but still ends up going to new doctors every year, all the while condemning modern medicine)

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This is my biggest issue. They'd rather take 15 supplements of god knows what, many of which are manufactured in China, without any FDA regulation of what is in it than pop an Advil when it is needed. It seems like the fear of "bad chemicals" is severely misplaced. I have no issue with supplements- if they are studied and tested independently frequently as to their purity- but most are NOT.

Not only are those things often not regulated, but the fundies seem to have a complete blind spot about the fact that merchants and companies hawking supplements are every bit as capitalistic as those selling prescription medication. Never mind all the other woo-woo cures they often fall for, with the special magnetic bracelets and whatever else.

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In addition to docs who want to be seen doing something, you have the people who are not happy unless they GET something. The last time we saw someone for the MiniVixen, they were very careful to explain why I got what we got - as if they expected complaints.

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Not only are those things often not regulated, but the fundies seem to have a complete blind spot about the fact that merchants and companies hawking supplements are every bit as capitalistic as those selling prescription medication. Never mind all the other woo-woo cures they often fall for, with the special magnetic bracelets and whatever else.

It's not just fundies. I run with a hippie-dippie crowd, and they are always snarking on evil Big Pharma and its capitalistic ways while spending hundreds of dollars a month on supplements and herbal remedies.

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. My ILs have started this anti-med, anti-doc campaign that has only worsened over the years, and I've been called a "drug pusher" more than once. Luckily, my DH also thinks they're a nutty bunch.

I feel your pain. Among the inlaw's is/was a BIL and his wife who, when she was diagnosed with cancer, decided to forego chemo (poisons) and go with prayer, diet and vitamin c. She had a nice funeral. Another in-law is constantly railing about big pharma, but spends nearly as much on natural supplements each month as he spends on his mortgage, and about once a year starts a multi month long trek to countless specialists to help figure out what his esoteric disease of the year is (basically, he's in an extended mid life crisis--he's been told as much by physicians, and noted it himself a time or two, but still ends up going to new doctors every year, all the while condemning modern medicine)

OMG this is so my MIL. She spends a ton on supplements, too. She also has mystery illnesses that last different periods of time- GI problems, hormonal problems (which warranted a wide range of testing by natural docs- not covered by insurance, equalling in the thousands of dollars that told her nothing- except she had thyroid problems- even though her thyroid levels were all within normal limits) back problems, "numb hand" problems (which can easily be explained by carpal tunnel and the amount of time she spends on her laptop- but, to her she has figured it out as a side effect of EMF poisoning. Yes, Electromagnetic Frequencies. It is because of all of the electronics and certain lights, and copper in the house that causes her numb hands versus a very common problem with certain hobbies). It's even gone so far that when we are at a restaurant my very young (preteen) SIL will say "Mom, this place has the bad lights!" Lovely brainwashing at its core. This has been happening as long as I've known DH and is really very exhausting to listen to.

Dear God, I hope she is not reading this- she knows I follow along here at FJ (and has "checked it out" and doesn't approve!)... :mrgreen:

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It's not just fundies. I run with a hippie-dippie crowd, and they are always snarking on evil Big Pharma and its capitalistic ways while spending hundreds of dollars a month on supplements and herbal remedies.

Oh certainly. Magical thinking happens over there too, no doubt about it.

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The posted doesn't seem too extreme in the scheme of things, but I wonder if for some fundies it's a type of martyrdom, an actual desire to "suffer as Jesus did" or somesuch. I wasn't highly religious as a child, and I certainly was grateful for modern medicine, but I used to be resistant to taking Advil/Tylenol/whatever for things like headaches...for some reason I saw them as things to suffer through. I've definitely grown out of this (and coincidentally, really should take something for this minor backache of mine), but I can see the appeal of this type of thinking for fundies. Sadly, it's their children that have to suffer from their choices.

There is nothing godly about enduring pain just for the sake of enduring it, whether its a fever or headache or childbirth (props if you've had a natural childbirth, but it doesn't give you holiness brownie points of anything). And nothing ungodly about using modern over-the-counters to relieve that pain or discomfort.

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The posted doesn't seem too extreme in the scheme of things, but I wonder if for some fundies it's a type of martyrdom, an actual desire to "suffer as Jesus did" or somesuch. I wasn't highly religious as a child, and I certainly was grateful for modern medicine, but I used to be resistant to taking Advil/Tylenol/whatever for things like headaches...for some reason I saw them as things to suffer through. I've definitely grown out of this (and coincidentally, really should take something for this minor backache of mine), but I can see the appeal of this type of thinking for fundies. Sadly, it's their children that have to suffer from their choices.

There is nothing godly about enduring pain just for the sake of enduring it, whether its a fever or headache or childbirth (props if you've had a natural childbirth, but it doesn't give you holiness brownie points of anything). And nothing ungodly about using modern over-the-counters to relieve that pain or discomfort.

I agree with you about martyrdom. Abigail the almost-nun is a great example, but I see that in a lot of other fundies too. And I do think the "suffer through it" mentality can be really easy to fall into even if you aren't fundy. Maybe it's because sickness is still seen as a sort of weakness? I also know people who are almost paranoid about abusing/becoming addicted to drugs. I had a friend in high school who refused ANY pain medication when she broke her leg because of this fear. Her pain was so bad that she couldn't sleep for a few nights. I don't think she even took anything OTC. Personally, sometimes I feel like I will get into a mindset where I feel almost guilty for taking something for say, a headache or cramps, because I think I have been through worse pain (like migraine vs. regular headache). But most of the time I just figure it is worth it to take something, so I feel better and can be more productive. As long as you are not abusing it or taking it all the time without a doctor's supervision (i.e. for something like Tylenol where there is a small risk of liver damage), it's not really a big deal.

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In addition to docs who want to be seen doing something, you have the people who are not happy unless they GET something. The last time we saw someone for the MiniVixen, they were very careful to explain why I got what we got - as if they expected complaints.

Our pediatrician was visibly relieved when we were fine with not using antibiotics for what was thought to be a viral infection. We were told to continue to push fluids and use ibuprofen to bring down fever, but that's about all you can do. The doctor told us that a lot of parents DEMAND antibiotics even when unwarranted. She can explain all about antibiotic-resistant bacteria and how the medicine won't even help a viral illness and parents still act like asshats when the doctor won't write a script for magical amoxicillin!

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What about brain damage??

Brain damage is not a real concern until the temperature rises over at least 107.6 degrees.

The human body doesn’t raise it’s temperature above 105 to 106 degrees in response to a virus or bacteria (source).

:angry-banghead: This is false information. A human body CAN raise its temperature to 105 to 106 degrees in response to a virus or bacteria, and IT RUNS IN FAMILIES. I know because as a child, I ran very high fevers with common illnesses such as the flu, strep throat, etc. My aunt picked up a virus and ran a high fever (106) when she was little and it DID result in brain damage. It was the 50's, and they were unable to bring her temperature down for whatever reason. After 2 days, she went into a coma and when she awoke, she had permanent brain damage. I have been told by several doctors that running high fevers tends to run in families; I did, and 3 of my 4 children do. My youngest is the worst: she commonly runs fevers in the 105 range - just about anytime she picks up a cold or virus. And I am told to keep it down - once her temperature hits 104 our pediatricians have been adamant about us using a combination of acetaminophen, ibuprofen, and lukewarm baths to bring it down.

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Our pediatrician was visibly relieved when we were fine with not using antibiotics for what was thought to be a viral infection. We were told to continue to push fluids and use ibuprofen to bring down fever, but that's about all you can do. The doctor told us that a lot of parents DEMAND antibiotics even when unwarranted. She can explain all about antibiotic-resistant bacteria and how the medicine won't even help a viral illness and parents still act like asshats when the doctor won't write a script for magical amoxicillin!

This is so true. I would have parents go on a tirade when we would just encourage fluids and to keep the fever down- they often wanted to know why we "weren't doing anything to help..." It doesn't take a genius to realize a virus will subside on its own and doesn't require (and as you stated above, isn't even affected by) ATBX.

Our docs were always very cautious with writing scripts for ATBX because of resistance, but sadly most people want a magic pill regardless of condition.

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