People in 15 states start petitions to secede from U.S.

[AnnieC 305]

Please excuse my ignorance of the US but I have to ask: would any of these states be viable on their own? I suspect Colorado might as it has the same appeal as Switzerland - playground of the rich and famous combined with being the training location of every country's Winter Olympic Team. I'm not counting New York, as they didn't initiate it themselves.

Tell me about the other states? Industry? Mining? Oil? Anything that might provide employment and income for the people who live there? If they did secede, what sort of import and export taxes are the rest of you planning to place on goods moving across the borders?

Oh, wait, you want logic. There is no logic involved here. Although I have heard arguments that if California, Oregon, Washington and Alaska got together they could form a fairly decent country.

Also, must change avatar in support of succession, if that's the way those people want to be.

[tabitha2]

Texas could.We have all the resources to be self supporting-Oil, a port, abundant crop/grazing land, large modern cities and so on.

[smores]

If Kentucky seceeds, my landlord's going to have to accept a broken lease since my husband will now work in another country. Woo hoo, moving early!

[Fargood]

fucking North Dakota, jesus christ. I lived there quite happily for over a dozen years and now between this nonsense and the oil fields I don't even want to go visit. Backwardass fuckers.

Some of us still live here and do so quite happily, even amongst all the backwardness. Even in the patch.

[slickcat79]

Please excuse my ignorance of the US but I have to ask: would any of these states be viable on their own? I suspect Colorado might as it has the same appeal as Switzerland - playground of the rich and famous combined with being the training location of every country's Winter Olympic Team. I'm not counting New York, as they didn't initiate it themselves.

Tell me about the other states? Industry? Mining? Oil? Anything that might provide employment and income for the people who live there? If they did secede, what sort of import and export taxes are the rest of you planning to place on goods moving across the borders?

I guess Texas could finally drill for all the offshore oil they wanted. But they'd have to handle their own shit when they got mauled by hurricanes or BP decimates the gulf ecosystem. Not to mention that whole illegal immigration thing.

[emmiedahl]

My state is probably viable on its own. But I think we would split into two countries, not into several separate states.

[galaxygirl]

Meanwhile I'm sitting here in my beautiful blue state that doesn't want to secede :lol:

There is quite a bit of bitterness about the blue-ness of the state though, which is hilarious. Especially when it's coming from family in Indiana.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Fuck 'em. We could make Jacksonville a state and they could have their happy little Christian theocracy there. They should all fit quite easily. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: Since they claim that over population is a myth and the whole world could fit in Jacksonville, the should have plenty of extra room, more than they could possibly need.

I've often fantasized about taking people who claim to want what amounts to a theocracy and putting them in a totally isolated country to see how they like it. It'd turn into a real life Handmaid's Tale, and the fundies would end up real life Serena Joys, realizing how horrible the world they claim to want would really be, especially for women. Or ship them off to Saudi Arabia and somehow make them see that that is what they're fighting for.

[lovemygsp]

Please excuse my ignorance of the US but I have to ask: would any of these states be viable on their own? I suspect Colorado might as it has the same appeal as Switzerland - playground of the rich and famous combined with being the training location of every country's Winter Olympic Team. I'm not counting New York, as they didn't initiate it .

CO can't survive on their own seeing as they have almost no water.

Guess the folks in SC haven't seen this yet as I'm sure they'd join.

[DarkAnts]

There is Portland and the college towns and then there is the rest of the state. So everyone who wants to go can go to that side of the Cascades and those of us who are happy can stay on this side of the Cascades. See, simple!

Our side gets to keep the really good coffee and the Voodoo Doughnuts.

Dont forget powells and all of the good yarn stores.

[clarinetpower]

North Dakota has lots of oil, wheat, sunflowers, canola, potatoes and sugar beets.

They also have lots of nuclear warheads. Enough there to be the third world power (at least it used to be, back in the 80's.)

But if we didn't trade with them, they probably wouldn't survive. No coffee plantations, and even the really conservative Republicans need their coffee.

[smores]

Guess the folks in SC haven't seen this yet as I'm sure they'd join.

You'd be wrong on that one. SC doesn't want to be the middle of a battle again, and they can't survive without the blue counties that they have (Charleston and Columbia) that would not want to separate.

[anniebgood]

If they secede then all federal services will be pulled. No more Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine bases, no more security at airports. No federal appeals courts for civil or criminal matters. No federal prisons, Banks would have to rely on their own funding as the Federal Reserve would not support them. No national guard, no extra money for disasters, no mail service.

The list goes on and on and on. Oh yeah, National Parks would be closed since the states secession would negate their services as well.

:ugeek:

[notsocommon]

Please excuse my ignorance of the US but I have to ask: would any of these states be viable on their own? I suspect Colorado might as it has the same appeal as Switzerland - playground of the rich and famous combined with being the training location of every country's Winter Olympic Team. I'm not counting New York, as they didn't initiate it themselves.

Tell me about the other states? Industry? Mining? Oil? Anything that might provide employment and income for the people who live there? If they did secede, what sort of import and export taxes are the rest of you planning to place on goods moving across the borders?

When Obama won 4 years ago, I saw some idiots in Texas fap on and on about how they have NASA, military, some big companies, etc.... They refused to uderstand that if Texas left the union, then all FEDERAL programs like NASA the military, etc....would leave. Then many of the big companies would get the hell out.

These morons were actually salivating at the thought of things like NASA shutting down all communications in the whole country, or the military stationed in Texas guarding the border to the US to keep the 'riff raff' out.

Yes, they are *that* stupid.

[Georgiana]

Oregon? Really?

Well, in light of Washington's many large military bases, I am going to start a petition that if Orgeon secedes, Washington be allowed to conquer it, and rename the state "the Shorts of Washington". Then there will be THREE Washingtons: the State of Washington, Washington D.C., and the Shorts of Washington.

No sales tax will become part of the Constitution, and gas station attendants will be abolished because that confuses me! We will start the radical Reconstruction of the State formerly known as Oregon in the summer, because everyone from Washington vacations on the Oregon Coast anyways.

[linnea27]

Oh, wait, you want logic. There is no logic involved here. Although I have heard arguments that if California, Oregon, Washington and Alaska got together they could form a fairly decent country.

Also, must change avatar in support of succession, if that's the way those people want to be.

lol, my dad has long hoped for this, but he includes BC in that country as well.

[luckylibrarian]

I am so happy to see Ohio is not on the list. Even though we went blue, there are a lot of scary conservative militia types in my corner of the state. I'm surprised at Oregon and New Jersey and equally unsurprised that Louisiana led the charge.

[Georgiana]

Please excuse my ignorance of the US but I have to ask: would any of these states be viable on their own? I suspect Colorado might as it has the same appeal as Switzerland - playground of the rich and famous combined with being the training location of every country's Winter Olympic Team. I'm not counting New York, as they didn't initiate it themselves.

Tell me about the other states? Industry? Mining? Oil? Anything that might provide employment and income for the people who live there? If they did secede, what sort of import and export taxes are the rest of you planning to place on goods moving across the borders?

If the American Civil War was any indication, many States could be viable on their own economically. Yes, there are exceptions, and many government services would take a hit, but they could still exist. Because the Constitution left a great deal of powers to the States, it isn't TOO much of a leap for them to become sovereign. No idea if they could do it in the long-term though.

However:

It is nearly if not completely impossible for States to field a military capable of defending their borders. Once they secede, they lose the national army, so all they are left with are those people who were formerly with the military that went with their State. Other than that, they will have to institute a draft an train everyone. Not to mention, they'll need equipment, boats, infrastructure, all of which they could NEVER procure before being re-taken.

The only reason the South was able to put up such a fight is because they were all geographically located together, were able to form a loose Confederacy to distribute and coordinate the shared cause, and they seized tons of Federal supplies. Plus, they had a certain amount of arms built up which has not been allowed to happen since.

Most importantly, however, it's that people's idea of America has changed since the 1860's. In the 1860's, many people identified with their State first and then with the country as a whole. That allowed the secessionist cause to gain huge popular support. Now, people identify with the Union first and then with their State. People wont go along with the secession because all but the most radical really identify with being AMERICAN (as opposed to a Virginian, Washingtonian, Oregonian, etc.). And even a great deal of the radicals are very solidly dedicated to the Union.

Also, I just wanted to say, if you are "pro-life" or "pro-traditional family", but you support provoking a Civil War which would turn brother against brother, sister against sister on the battlefield, you are a bastard. Unlike abortion and gay marriage, Civil Wars have been SOLIDLY PROVEN to rip apart families and lives. The American Civil War was a truly tragic piece of history. Anyone who would want to bring that back needs a bayonet to the stomach.

[Megan]

We should allow one of these states to secede as an example for the others. Simply instate high tariffs against them and withdraw any federal funding. They will fail miserably and will come crying back with their tail between their legs. In the meantime, allow Puerto Rico to become a state, so we don't have to make new 49-star flags. When the state that secedes returns, they will be stuck being a territory (or we can commission new 51-star flags, required to be sewn in the US, as a way to create new jobs. So many opportunities!)

[RachelB]

I noticed that a number of those states gave their electoral votes to Obama in this election: not just Oregon and New Jersey, but also Colorado and Florida. My guess is that many of those states could not secede, even if it were legal, because they could not find among their residents a bare majority who want to secede right now. (Even before considering the implications of going without federal aid, of which there are many.)

Back in the early 2000s, I lived in an urban county in Iowa during a presidential campaign and election. It was so solidly Democratic that Republican candidates generally did not bother to come visit, despite the fact that campaigns spent months in the state. Honestly, I knew at an intellectual level that I was living in a blue city verging on green in a then red-to-purple state, but viscerally? I was shocked to discover how far out of the norm for the state my friends, colleagues, fellow parishioners, and I were. We would have fit in better in California.

It's really easy to mistake your friends, family, co-workers, and internet buddies for a statistical sample. I would wager that people who signed those petitions think that they're a lot more representative of their region and state than they actually are. And they have no idea how much of a pain in the ass secession would be for them, though history books can be found at the public library for free.

[Witsec7]

These are wingnuts, goddess knows we've got a shit pot full here in Boregonia, and their pissed their QF candidate Art Robinson didn't defeat a liberal Dem. senator. For what it's worth I'm keeping my zip code here and my Boregonian address.

[darareaksmey]

Heh. Funny that we in SC, who started the last secession disaster, remain pointedly committed to the union this time. Though I guess we are minute to minute, given the overwhelming redness of the state.

[formergothardite]

Damn North Carolina, really? Why the hell is my state among these fifteen? Didn't the south learn the last time around that secession is a crappy idea?

I know. :cry: The South will rise again and all that crap won't really happen.

[Koala]

Well Alabama made the list. Of course. Why am I not surprised??

[tanksmom]

They only have to deal for four years if they hate Obama. Next term he can't run again.

But didn't you hear that Obama signed a secret document that will allow him to stay in office forever. It has to be true, I read it on the internet!