Young conversions

[JesusFightClub]

I find this really weird. People claiming to have become Christians when they were four, five, six or even three years old:

It was toward the end of my third year of life that I recognized I was a sinner and that the punishment for sin is eternal separation from God in a horrible place of torment that He calls hell. I remember talking to my parents about my placing my trust in Christ as my only hope for salvation. I also remember the calm assurance that swept over my soul after giving my life to Jesus Christ and trusting Him alone for salvation.

http://davidlovespriscilla.com/about-us/david-story/

I...do not get this. How is this possible?

I have told here about my little nieces Small and Smaller. Smaller is three, and she's begun to grasp the concept "not doing bad things, naughty to do that". She responds quickly to a telling off and apologises. But she's much more likely to tell you "Today I saw a cat! And a digger!" than she is to tell you she places her only hope in Christ for salvation. :roll:

Can the "conversions" of tiny children be even vaguely meaningful? Is this just people with gilt-edged childhood memories, or is there something more creepy behind it?

[singsingsing]

I also find it really strange. I am a (decidedly non-fundamentalist) Christian, and I understand why people believe in infant baptism, and why people believe in adult baptism, but I don't understand how someone can be 'saved' as a young child. Personally I feel like even the early teens are pushing it. I get that these children are telling their parents what they want to hear, that they believe in Jesus and believe that he died for them, and so on, but when I was that age I would have earnestly told my parents that Santa Claus came in the front door because we didn't have a chimney, and that when we burned our Christmas lists in our grandparents' fireplace, the letters magically floated to the North Pole.

[Arete]

If you believe that a 3 year old had a conversion experience, than you probably also believe The Tudors was a faithful historical reenactment. :P

With this level of stupid and gullibility, it's a wonder that fundies are still able to swim in the gene pool.

[FeministShrew]

I think it's a sort of peer pressure. My kids "got saved" at around 4-5. They also went to a Freewill Baptist school. Yes, I am ashamed of that now. :oops:

I need to ask them how much of it was because of pressure at school & wanting to be like their friends. (Neither of them are religious at all now, at 18 & 16.)

I was 7, and I'm pretty sure now that I really just wanted the attention & approval of the adults around me.

At the church my kids grew up at (& where their dad still goes) it was pretty standard for even little kids (kindergartners on up) to go to the altar to pray with their friends. They were obviously mimicking what they saw their parents doing, & they got the "Aww, how sweet" comments from adults, which encouraged them more.

The funny thing is some of those kids are pretty messed up today. Attempted suicides, teen pregnancies, school expulsions - I'm glad I got my kids out when I did.

[browngrl]

Well, I guess if you have been beating the child and blanket training the child and doing everything you can to get the child to submit, then I suppose you could get a three year old to "convert" - after all they have already had their spirit broken. I find it so sad that a three year old is thinking more about death and hell than exploring their world and having fun.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think its sad how a child could feel that guilty about something. Surely theres nothing a 3 year old could have done that is actually bad.

[stefanilynn76]

I got 'saved' when I was five because my Sunday School teacher told me that if I didn't then I would wake up one morning and be all alone. My parents would be raptured and I would burn in hell. I still remember the terror I felt. Now thatI am a parent I would seriously kick someones ass if they told my boys that BS. Damn Baptist bullies.

[Kitty]

I got baptized/"saved" at 7. Yeah, it was all about the pressure and seeking approval from the adults.

At that age its also about mimcking what you see around you.

[Kitty]

I think its sad how a child could feel that guilty about something. Surely theres nothing a 3 year old could have done that is actually bad.

I don't think it was guilt, but the child reciting a script.

[FeministShrew]

I don't think it was guilt, but the child reciting a script.

I never felt guilt until after I was "saved." My same-age male cousin were caught playing "show & tell" - our version of "playing doctor" around that time, & I spent the next, oh, 30 years or so feeling like the lowest whore on earth for doing what kids naturally :evil: do.

[OkToBeTakei]

What a load of crap.

It reminds me of the parents who used to say to their child 'You don't like chocolate do you, because it's bad for your teeth isn't it?' Yes because 3 yr olds think like that. Of course they will think like that if their parents TELL them to.

'Jesus is going to save you isn't he, then you will be saved and all the naughty things you have done will be forgotten, that will be wonderful won't it?'

Jesus Chocolate, same shit different day. All about the parents.

[Irishy]

What a load of crap.

It reminds me of the parents who used to say to their child 'You don't like chocolate do you, because it's bad for your teeth isn't it?' Yes because 3 yr olds think like that. Of course they will think like that if their parents TELL them to.

'Jesus is going to save you isn't he, then you will be saved and all the naughty things you have done will be forgotten, that will be wonderful won't it?'

Jesus Chocolate, same shit different day. All about the parents.

Well said.

[Artemis]

If you believe that a 3 year old had a conversion experience, than you probably also believe The Tudors was a faithful historical reenactment. :P

With this level of stupid and gullibility, it's a wonder that fundies are still able to swim in the gene pool.

Gene pool? They're not swimming, just paddling round in the shallow end, flailing a bit.

Up in the deep end where you have to swim, you end up sharing it with all sorts of undesirables . . . all those pan-sexual bonobos, for example. Or murderous chimpanzees. Or even bananas. I mean no self respecting fundie will ever admit to sharing a coding sequnce with a banana . . .

[Guest Anonymous]

What a load of crap.

It reminds me of the parents who used to say to their child 'You don't like chocolate do you, because it's bad for your teeth isn't it?' Yes because 3 yr olds think like that. Of course they will think like that if their parents TELL them to.

'Jesus is going to save you isn't he, then you will be saved and all the naughty things you have done will be forgotten, that will be wonderful won't it?'

Jesus Chocolate, same shit different day. All about the parents.

I want a chocolate Jesus

[Visionoyahweh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe

[gardenvarietycitizen]

One of the Munck sisters had a post on their sister blog (before it was taken down and then restarted) about feeling as if her previous being saved wasn't really real, that she wasn't actually saved, and needed to do it again. She angsts over it for a while and then has another saving (posts about it).

I suspect she's not alone, probably lots of kids who think they're "saved" at very young ages, if they do end up staying in the church and getting serious end up thinking they'd be safest to make the pledge again now at an older age.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

[FeministShrew]

The IFBs around here want the kids to be saved at a young age, but then when they're teens or older they try to make them doubt. I'm not sure why. I read an article by an ex-IFB preacher who said that in order to get people saved, you first have to talk them out of any salvation experience they had as children. You make them doubt, make them afraid, & then they'll do anything to have the peace of mind back.

I saw it firsthand with EXH1. He went to a IFB preacher for counseling (what he really needed was strong anti-psycotic meds :roll: ). By the end of the session the guy had him in tears, convinced his childhood salvation wasn't real & terrified he was about to drop dead & burn in hell. He was even baptized again.

When my sister started dating her current husband, who's IFB, & started going to church with him, I warned her what to look out for. Sure enough, a few weeks later she called me crying saying she had just "got saved" that she was supposed to call all her friends & family & tell them. When I said I thought she was saved already, she said that wasn't real. :evil:

[JoanHolloway]

The whole "becoming" a Christian thing has always confused me. I don't know how people who are raised in an uber-Christian environment can decided to be "saved" or "become Christian" when they're not really realising anything new. They're just parroting the same tripe that's been repeated to them by their parents since birth.

If you're raised in an environment where all you hear is "Jesus is your saviour"...it shouldn't be a sudden epiphany when you "accept" him, should it? IDK this whole thing confuses me.

[Bookworm]

I remember praying the prayer at 3 years and 5 months old. It's actually kind of a sweet memory still. I remember the whole thing vividly. I did understand the concepts, but I mainly did it to please my parents. And yes, there were several more times over my childhood that I prayed it again just to make sure.

I am no longer a Christian and as I was going through my questioning period I remember one of my friend's kids, who was about 4, had just prayed the prayer and everyone made a big deal of him that Sunday in church. He came up to me with this shining face and big smile and lisped about how "now I no fire!" He was really relieved to not be going to Hell. That broke my heart and I will never, ever forget it.

The more fundie the church, the more blatant the emotional manipulation. It is horrible what they do to people of all ages, but the children really get to me.

[Minerva]

One of the Munck sisters had a post on their sister blog (before it was taken down and then restarted) about feeling as if her previous being saved wasn't really real, that she wasn't actually saved, and needed to do it again. She angsts over it for a while and then has another saving (posts about it).

I suspect she's not alone, probably lots of kids who think they're "saved" at very young ages, if they do end up staying in the church and getting serious end up thinking they'd be safest to make the pledge again now at an older age.

That's what my fundy lite friend did. She "came to Christ" as a preteen, but when she was old enough to understand the entire doctrine, she realized she'd only been reciting the words and re-accepted Jesus as her personal saviour.

When I was 3, I literally believed that a bipedal rabbit hopped around our house hiding eggs the night before Easter Sunday.

[thoughtful]

I want a chocolate Jesus

[Beeks]

One of the Munck sisters had a post on their sister blog (before it was taken down and then restarted) about feeling as if her previous being saved wasn't really real, that she wasn't actually saved, and needed to do it again. She angsts over it for a while and then has another saving (posts about it).

I suspect she's not alone, probably lots of kids who think they're "saved" at very young ages, if they do end up staying in the church and getting serious end up thinking they'd be safest to make the pledge again now at an older age.

This is something that confuses me. I read Kelly Stamps' blog (run of the mill southern baptist) and she once mentioned how her husband Scott realized well into their marriage that he wasn't really saved, got saved again, and how everything was so much better after that. And of course she'd been pray for this all along. Before that I really had no idea this went on.

How do you know if your saving is real or not?? That would be pretty terrifying considering your eternal fate is riding on it.

[xDreamerx]

I don't think conversions of young children can be real, because they're simply not able to reason on the same level as adults. Like someone above said, when I was that age I literally believed a magical rabbit came through our house every Easter and personally brought me chocolates.

For myself, I always wondered, how is this not against the spirit of Protestantism? By that I mean, the non liturgical groupings that are more loosey goosey in their worship structures. I thought sincere belief was supposed to be enough, that one was supposed to be saved by Grace which cannot be earned? This whole 'saved' and re-saved thing seems like works to me.

[flojo]

I remember as a child being terrified of this. I couldn't remember my first time, so I kep repeating the sinners prayer on an almost daily (or at one stage multiple times daily) basis, as I was terrified that I hadn't said the prayer correctly and was going to hell. I was also the most evangelistic 7 year old you would meet. I was terrified of all of my friends going to hell, so I would badger them into saying the sinners prayer.

The worst (slightly tangential) was my fear of babies who died young going to hell. A distinct conversation I remember having when I was eleven or 12 was with a fundy lite lady, in front of maybe 40n other children. She basically told me that Buddhist babies who die go to hell because of the decision of their parents. How utterly horrific.