Young conversions

[CC3]

My daughter was saved at age 4. She is extremely bright and understood the concept. When she was 13, she asked if she could be baptized and after speaking to our pastor, she was baptized in front of family and friends. She is in her 30's now, a believer, mother of 3 who is raising her children in the same faith. I think young children can accept Jesus as their Savior, but I don't believe they should get baptized until they are mature enough to articulate their faith publicly. I became a Christian in my 20s but not baptized for ten years. I think everyone is different and on their own time table.

[NerdyHil]

Sacrilicious!

[Gypsy]

When I was 6 I was saved and asked to be baptized immediately after the service. My parents were very concerned that I didn't understand the implications of what it all meant, and were pretty sure that I had just done it to be doing it. So they let me talk to the pastor (who to this day continues to have been one of the best examples of a christian in my life) for a couple of hours and he said that I had a better grasp on it than most adults he knew. I understood it well, and even after spending a lot of time thinking about it I still know I made the right decision.

My boyfriend on the other hand did it because his mother asked him to. I think she was in turn getting pressured by his grandmother, who is always pretty concerned over his mortal soul (especially when he goes to play D&D :lol: ). He understood what he was doing, but I dont really think he was/is ready for it tbh.

[Feel For Joy]

I remember as a child being terrified of this. I couldn't remember my first time, so I kep repeating the sinners prayer on an almost daily (or at one stage multiple times daily) basis, as I was terrified that I hadn't said the prayer correctly and was going to hell. I was also the most evangelistic 7 year old you would meet. I was terrified of all of my friends going to hell, so I would badger them into saying the sinners prayer.

The worst (slightly tangential) was my fear of babies who died young going to hell. A distinct conversation I remember having when I was eleven or 12 was with a fundy lite lady, in front of maybe 40n other children. She basically told me that Buddhist babies who die go to hell because of the decision of their parents. How utterly horrific.

I attended a club called AWANA. I'm not sure how well known it is, but it's basically a Christian version of girl and boy scouts (or so I think-I was not allowed to go to girl scouts). Anyway, when I was about 5 or 6, a friend brought me there for the first time. The "leaders" took the non-member kids into a little room (about 10 or so kids in total), and we sat there almost the entire night being told we were all going to die soon and we were all going to burn in hell. Of course I accepted Jesus into my heart!

A few years later, I was so scared for my 3 year old brother, that I did the same damn thing those adults did to me! I scared him into getting saved-so I could sleep at night knowing he was going to heaven.

I too prayed all the time, not sure if I had really accepted God into my life. I never really felt "the Spirit" like everyone else seemed to, so it made me question it all the time.

At this point in my life, I'm not sure exactly what I believe, but when my kids are old enough to start asking questions, I will tell them not to get involved with religion until they know exactly what they are getting into, and that they should wait until they are adults to make any kind of commitment if they feel that need.

[DarkAnts]

I never understood the need to be saved. But then again, I am not a "christian" because I believe that all good people should go to heaven even if they are not christian. I think my beliefs are in line with Universal Unitarian but I go to an episcopal church. Its an accepting church that will not discriminate against you if you dont believe what they believe. The church spends most of its money benefiting society. It goes to the food bank, community clinic, homeless shelter exc. There are no strings attached to the donations.

[DarkAnts]

I dont understand the whole everyone is going to hell but us mentality. Its not even good enough to be christian these days. You have to be the right brand of christian. To me, that mentality means that everyone is going to hell. I dont agree with the theology that someone can do horrible acts in this life, get saved and go to heaven.

Regarding children being saved, it reminds me of the emotional manipulation that we saw on Jesus Camp. I consider that to be borderline abuse.

[Feel For Joy]

Yes, I would say it is definately mental abuse. It makes you feel like you are not good enough just as you are. Every thought I had (good or bad) made me feel guilty that I was somehow going against God's will. I would have break downs sometimes, repeating over and over in my head the same sentence, "I love God, and that will never change."

I even wrote it down sometimes. The only thing that "saved me" from my overbearing conscience was that I was allowed to get a job when I was in highschool. I found out that the majority of people were not like my parents, or brought up like I was, and there was a different way to live. :)

[Three and Done]

I attended a club called AWANA. I'm not sure how well known it is, but it's basically a Christian version of girl and boy scouts (or so I think-I was not allowed to go to girl scouts). Anyway, when I was about 5 or 6, a friend brought me there for the first time. The "leaders" took the non-member kids into a little room (about 10 or so kids in total), and we sat there almost the entire night being told we were all going to die soon and we were all going to burn in hell. Of course I accepted Jesus into my heart!

A few years later, I was so scared for my 3 year old brother, that I did the same damn thing those adults did to me! I scared him into getting saved-so I could sleep at night knowing he was going to heaven.

I too prayed all the time, not sure if I had really accepted God into my life. I never really felt "the Spirit" like everyone else seemed to, so it made me question it all the time.

At this point in my life, I'm not sure exactly what I believe, but when my kids are old enough to start asking questions, I will tell them not to get involved with religion until they know exactly what they are getting into, and that they should wait until they are adults to make any kind of commitment if they feel that need.

Oh, how I remember AWANA! (Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed) I can still sing a large part of the theme song we all learned. Yes, it is basically a fundy Baptist scout-type situation, and we got patches for memorizing Bible verses, etc. It was an attempt to shove God down our throats, but wrapped in a "fun" atmosphere that also involved crafts, soap box derbies, field trips, etc. The core message remained the same, though - accept Jesus as your personal savior (and spread the word to all of your friends and family!) or you will burn in hell.

[Miggy]

The whole "becoming" a Christian thing has always confused me. I don't know how people who are raised in an uber-Christian environment can decided to be "saved" or "become Christian" when they're not really realising anything new. They're just parroting the same tripe that's been repeated to them by their parents since birth.

If you're raised in an environment where all you hear is "Jesus is your saviour"...it shouldn't be a sudden epiphany when you "accept" him, should it? IDK this whole thing confuses me.

I may be able to answer that ...

I grew up in a [liberal] Christian family, attended church and Sunday School as a child and continue to be Christian to this day. I have never had a moment of "being saved" and get really annoyed when people ask "When were you saved?". There has never been a moment in my life of not knowing God or suddenly becoming aware. It is just something that has just been around all my life, with awareness growing as I have grown. (I would stress here that although my parents took us to Sunday School and Church, they also taught us that we had to make our own choice about religion. I am Christian. My brother is not.) My husband, who also grew up in a Christian family, feels exactly the same way.

At eleven I had a conversation with a friend who asked me "Are you Christian?", I replied, "I don't know. What do you have to do to be Christian?". A Youth Leader who overheard explained to me a Christian was someone who loved God and followed Jesus. All you had to do to become Christian was to pray to Jesus and ask him to be part of your life. I answered that I had prayed to Jesus all my life. She told me "then you are very lucky". This is not a great moment of being saved or anything. It was just a moment of growth in both life and faith that stands out for me. I have had other significant moments of growth when my grandfather died, when I chose to be baptised, etc. I think that fundies and evangelicals confuse these moments with "being saved". It doesn't help that talk about "being saved" is really common and there is often an attitude that you aren't a really Christian until you have had this moment. I have been told by people that I am not as far along my spiritual journey as they are because I do not have a moment of being saved. I am secure enough in myself to smile and think "you have no idea". I don't know how a less secure person would take this. It puts a lot of pressure on kids to behave a certain way, even though they don't realise it.

[Katydid]

I find this really weird. People claiming to have become Christians when they were four, five, six or even three years old:

http://davidlovespriscilla.com/about-us/david-story/

I...do not get this. How is this possible?

I have told here about my little nieces Small and Smaller. Smaller is three, and she's begun to grasp the concept "not doing bad things, naughty to do that". She responds quickly to a telling off and apologises. But she's much more likely to tell you "Today I saw a cat! And a digger!" than she is to tell you she places her only hope in Christ for salvation. :roll:

Can the "conversions" of tiny children be even vaguely meaningful? Is this just people with gilt-edged childhood memories, or is there something more creepy behind it?

Just no. My 3 year old is in no way capable of deciding to choose to follow Christ. He hasn't even reached the age of reason (which my faith says is 6-7 years old).

[FeministShrew]

I think it's a denominational thing too. Southern Baptists (around here, anyway) believe "once saved always saved." They want the kids "saved" young because then no matter what they do in later life, even if they stop going to church or commit murder, they'll go to heaven anyway. I actually heard a preacher tell a woman whose rebellious teenage son had just been saved, "You don't have to worry now, sis. Whatever he does in the future, he won't go to hell." You can "backslide" but you can never lose your salvation.

The IFBs here preach that if you sin at all after being saved, you were never really saved & you need to do it again. So you get people living with constant guilt & fear of eternal damnation.

Freewill Baptists believe you can't lose your salvation, but you can walk away from it. If you die while "backslidden" (yes, my old preacher really used this term), you go to hell. If you repent & come back to Jeebus before you die, you get your salvation back.

[Effie]

It was toward the end of my third year of life that I recognized I was a sinner and that the punishment for sin is eternal separation from God in a horrible place of torment that He calls hell. I remember talking to my parents about my placing my trust in Christ as my only hope for salvation. I also remember the calm assurance that swept over my soul after giving my life to Jesus Christ and trusting Him alone for salvation.

I was "saved" when I was 1 year old. I gave God a promise that I would never sin again. :roll:

[debrand]

Because I grew up hearing the people need to 'be saved', it surprises me that someone might not understand the term.

Being saved doesn't just mean that you accept that Jesus is the son of god, came to earth, died and rose again. It means that you admit that you are a worthless, no good sinner who can't do ANYTHING without god. So, there is a level of extreme humbling needed on the part of the Christian in order for salvation to be real. If you've never realized how entirely crappy you are as a human being then you aren't a 'real' Christian.

Lots of 'born againers' doubt their salvation. That is because once you are saved, the holy spirit is supposed to guide you. Most Christians believe that this means that they work with the holy spirit. However, born againers really have very odd contradictions in what they believe. On one hand, they can not do ANYTHING good on their own. So, the holy spirit leads them to do good. However, they also want to do bad which goes against having the holy spirit. This means that the holy spirit isn't all powerful. It leads to a lot of confusion for anyone who allows themselves to think and ask questions.

It is also why born againers have so many ways to prevent themselves from asking hard question. "If you really were saved, you would understand." "Have the all accepting faith of a child-who doesn't ask questions" etc.

[DarkAnts]

Because I grew up hearing the people need to 'be saved', it surprises me that someone might not understand the term.

Being saved doesn't just mean that you accept that Jesus is the son of god, came to earth, died and rose again. It means that you admit that you are a worthless, no good sinner who can't do ANYTHING without god. So, there is a level of extreme humbling needed on the part of the Christian in order for salvation to be real. If you've never realized how entirely crappy you are as a human being then you aren't a 'real' Christian.

Lots of 'born againers' doubt their salvation. That is because once you are saved, the holy spirit is supposed to guide you. Most Christians believe that this means that they work with the holy spirit. However, born againers really have very odd contradictions in what they believe. On one hand, they can not do ANYTHING good on their own. So, the holy spirit leads them to do good. However, they also want to do bad which goes against having the holy spirit. This means that the holy spirit isn't all powerful. It leads to a lot of confusion for anyone who allows themselves to think and ask questions.

It is also why born againers have so many ways to prevent themselves from asking hard question. "If you really were saved, you would understand." "Have the all accepting faith of a child-who doesn't ask questions" etc.

I grew up in Utah as the only non mormon kid in my class. Most of my friends were LDS. They were considered innocent of sin until age 10 when they were baptized. I think there is something to that belief. My mormon friends had classes before they were baptized that explained the churches beliefs, why they were being baptized, and what it would mean for them in the community.

Growing up in Utah was that I was not exposed to the need to be saved. The church my family attended (ELCA Lutheran) did not push that. You were baptized young. Sometimes as a baby. You were then confirmed as a member of the church at age 12 after going through confirmation classes.

[MrsYoungie]

I read this http://www.courses.vcu.edu/ENG200-dwc/hughes.htm quite a while ago. It sums up the peer pressure method of salvation quite nicely.

I do find it quite interesting that the churches that are so impressed with 3 year olds being "saved" are the same ones that are totally against infant baptism because a baby can't understand what is going on so it's meaningless. I remember the Baptist minister's daughter asking me if I was baptised and I said yes, I had been as a a baby. She told me I wasn't and I needed to be really baptised so I would be "saved". Even though I went to their church for a while, I never did make the step of being baptised again. Just as well.

[Arete]

Being "saved" is very much a Protestant doctrine. In Orthodoxy and Catholicism, you don't do this "acknowledge myself as a wretched sinner bound for hell, there I need to invite Jesus into my heart". While they don't discount adult conversion experiences such as Paul on the way to Damascus, if you are raised Christian you understand that salvation is a life long process, not a one-off. Your supposed to grow in maturity, and demonstrate that maturity throughout your life, say-helping the poor, not commiting criminal acts, controlling your temper, and doing what you can to improve the WORLD. It's not salvation by works, there is no bucket list. You are just expected as someone who claims to be a follower of Jesus to do what is within your power to ease suffering and make the world a little better.

Oh, and there is no "personal relationship". God is God and he is Holy. You pray for peace in the world, not for the Jets to make it to the Superbowl. ;)

[Katydid]

Being "saved" is very much a Protestant doctrine. In Orthodoxy and Catholicism, you don't do this "acknowledge myself as a wretched sinner bound for hell, there I need to invite Jesus into my heart". While they don't discount adult conversion experiences such as Paul on the way to Damascus, if you are raised Christian you understand that salvation is a life long process, not a one-off. Your supposed to grow in maturity, and demonstrate that maturity throughout your life, say-helping the poor, not commiting criminal acts, controlling your temper, and doing what you can to improve the WORLD. It's not salvation by works, there is no bucket list. You are just expected as someone who claims to be a follower of Jesus to do what is within your power to ease suffering and make the world a little better.

Oh, and there is no "personal relationship". God is God and he is Holy. You pray for peace in the world, not for the Jets to make it to the Superbowl. ;)

QFT!!!!!

[OkToBeTakei]

Being "saved" is very much a Protestant doctrine. In Orthodoxy and Catholicism, you don't do this "acknowledge myself as a wretched sinner bound for hell, there I need to invite Jesus into my heart". While they don't discount adult conversion experiences such as Paul on the way to Damascus, if you are raised Christian you understand that salvation is a life long process, not a one-off. Your supposed to grow in maturity, and demonstrate that maturity throughout your life, say-helping the poor, not commiting criminal acts, controlling your temper, and doing what you can to improve the WORLD. It's not salvation by works, there is no bucket list. You are just expected as someone who claims to be a follower of Jesus to do what is within your power to ease suffering and make the world a little better.

Oh, and there is no "personal relationship". God is God and he is Holy. You pray for peace in the world, not for the Jets to make it to the Superbowl. ;)

LIES LIES God loves me best. I said a Novena when I was 16 for Superhunk of the town to ask me out..HE DID! That is totally a legitimate reason to pray and not in anyway shallow. Nope :P

But yes your post would mirror my experience.

[Trynn]

I didn't even hear the term "get saved" until I was 14 and started talking with people from non Seventh Day Adventist backgrounds. I would tell them I was born into a Christian family, and they would say, "well yeah, but when did you get saved?" The question I COULD answer, however, was, "when did it become REAL to you?" That I could work with.

Because you're all correct: most young children don't get it. The way I grew up, I just believed things: mom and dad love me, Jesus loves me, I love mom and dad and I love Jesus." I never stopped to think whether or not those things were true. When I was baptized at the age of 11, part of it was because I wanted to follow Jesus, but I had no real concept of what that meant. I also liked the fact that if I took baptismal classes, I got to miss that godawful gym class!

My religion didn't become real to me until I was 14, and then I left at around 15. I still consider myself a Christian, but not after years of thinking over exactly what that would mean.

I'll expound more later.

[Loveday]

Being "saved" is very much a Protestant doctrine. In Orthodoxy and Catholicism, you don't do this "acknowledge myself as a wretched sinner bound for hell, there I need to invite Jesus into my heart". While they don't discount adult conversion experiences such as Paul on the way to Damascus, if you are raised Christian you understand that salvation is a life long process, not a one-off. Your supposed to grow in maturity, and demonstrate that maturity throughout your life, say-helping the poor, not commiting criminal acts, controlling your temper, and doing what you can to improve the WORLD. It's not salvation by works, there is no bucket list. You are just expected as someone who claims to be a follower of Jesus to do what is within your power to ease suffering and make the world a little better.

Oh, and there is no "personal relationship". God is God and he is Holy. You pray for peace in the world, not for the Jets to make it to the Superbowl. ;)

Thisthisthis. :clap: Especially the Super Bowl bit. :lol:

[FeministShrew]

Being "saved" is very much a Protestant doctrine. In Orthodoxy and Catholicism, you don't do this "acknowledge myself as a wretched sinner bound for hell, there I need to invite Jesus into my heart". While they don't discount adult conversion experiences such as Paul on the way to Damascus, if you are raised Christian you understand that salvation is a life long process, not a one-off. Your supposed to grow in maturity, and demonstrate that maturity throughout your life, say-helping the poor, not commiting criminal acts, controlling your temper, and doing what you can to improve the WORLD. It's not salvation by works, there is no bucket list. You are just expected as someone who claims to be a follower of Jesus to do what is within your power to ease suffering and make the world a little better.

Oh, and there is no "personal relationship". God is God and he is Holy. You pray for peace in the world, not for the Jets to make it to the Superbowl. ;)

The big catch phrase around here is "It's not religion, it's a relationship!"

[Convicted Blossom]

I think Aretejo sums it up well when she says being saved is a Protestant doctrine rather than an Orthodox/Catholic one. I'd suggest it's also, to a certain extent, cultural. Being "born again"/"saved" is something we previously associated with North America. Here in Australia, prior to my generation, being born again/saved was almost unheard of but with the growth of fundy churches it's become more widespread.

My 85 year old mother can't recall the term being used here until about the 70s, she says people were either "churchy" or they weren't.

[Convicted Blossom]

Further on the subject of young conversions, it really irks me when young female fundie bloggers refer to being "in love with the Lord." It sounds almost incestuous and decidedly sick.

Sarah Maxwell is equally irritating with her sign offs: "In him", "Through him", "Waiting on Him," "Resting in Jesus".

[Miggy]

Read this post last night. Church this morning...aaargh!

Little explanation first: I attend two churches; the Uniting Church in Australia and an evangelical church. I love the Uniting Church. Reasonably traditional; some hymns, some modern music, good solid sermon, lots of friends, etc. The evangelical church, well, it's not really me. I go because my son loves it but he doesn't like to go on his own. It is all rock music, sermon is a bit light weight for me and there is far too much of the you are a sinner but God loves you anyway stuff.

So, sitting in church playing my usually game of counting how many times the pastor says "fellowship" and "purpose" and the pastor screams out "ARE YOU SAVED?" I had a FreeJinger moment "What the .... is going on?" He continues "I KNOW THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE SITTING IN THIS CHURCH TODAY WHO AREN'T YET SAVED...." It went on and on. This is a church. It's filled with the same people who go every week. The pastor seems to think many of them aren't saved? I'm thinking I've stepped into a parallel time zone or been transported to Texas or something. Maybe Pastor has turned into Dougie Phillips or Bill Gothard. Pastor then goes on to explain why he thinks that the only really type of baptism is full immersion...

[emmiedahl]

My young children believe whatever I tell them. And I am including a generous range of children in "young"; my 10 year old considers me a source on a variety of questions.

So, if a child's parent tell them that they are sinners and bound for hell unless they take a few steps, of course the child will believe that. My children are raised to believe they are good and strong and capable of doing the right thing, so this penitence has never occurred to them.

A belief in Hell is similar to a belief in Santa Claus. Both have a similar amount of evidence for and against them. But only one makes my little Jew/Christian children happy on Christmas morning so guess which one my kids believe in?