Jump to content
IGNORED

Pro-lifers can happily report another death.


AuntCloud

Recommended Posts

Another heart-wrenching story, brought to you by the good people at Efrat - an Israeli pro-life organization that specializes in preying on women/girls contemplating abortion.

Here's the original story - sorry, couldn't find an English version.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4295052,00.html

Here's the long and the short of it: two 17-year olds at a boarding school in Israel fell deeply, madly in love. (The name of the school is withheld, but it implies that this is a school for teenagers with emotional issues). A few months later thr girl found out she was pregnant. The boy's mom pressured the girl to have an abortion. Again, nothing is explicitly told but apparently she tried to cajole, blackmail, threaten, the whole nine yards. The girl hasn't told her parents about the pregnancy. While the girl was trying to arrange for an abortion, Efrat got to her and started their own little party of threats and blackmail, along with promises of support, free diapers for a year and I don't know what else. (fetuses can hear! they can think! they think, Mommy, please don't kill me!) The poor girl and her boyfriend (both 17, emotionally troubled, under immense pressure from his parents on one side and guilted by pro-lifers on the other) decided they can't take it anymore.

The boy took his father's service gun, posted on Facebook about his grand plan to commit suicide with his girlfriend, told the local tv stations where exactly they will be found, and went ahead to do the deed. He was holding on to the girl while police volunteers intercepted them. The girl was crying and begging for her life while the boy was holding a gun to her hear. He was shot dead by police volunteers. Absolutely tragic and devastating to all involved, I can't imagine being 17 or any other age and seeing your boyfriend shot while he is trying to kill you. Sad, tragic, brought upon by teenage angst and immense pressure that teenagers are not equipped to handle. And yes, it has brought to the front pages Efrat organization and their dubious methods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Hillel I work at keeps getting materials from Friends of Efrat, their fundraising leg in the US. At this point, I think the director is deeply afraid of how I will react if we get more stuff from them, because this is my berserk button. I need the envelope so I can e-mail them some choice words about taking us off of their mailing list.

One more time: IN JUDAISM, A FETUS IS NOT LEGALLY A PERSON.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ha'aretz has more on Efrat and this incident:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/fa ... m-1.471391

The family of Raz Atias, the 18-year-old who was killed on Thursday night by police volunteers after intending to shoot his girlfriend and commit suicide, is raging at an anti-abortion organization. The Atias family said that pro-life Efrat organization volunteers "brainwashed" the young couple and brought emotional turmoil on them.

The family of Atias' girlfriend, "Z," agreed with the criticism, saying that the pressure applied by the organization not to have an abortion was a significant factor in the couple's decision to commit suicide.

"We have many severe issues with Efrat," said Z's sister. "They approach children without the parents' authorization and brainwash them. I promise this isn't the end of the story. We will publish everything that happened so that every girl will know that it's better to consult with her parents and not to hide or do things that might cause calamities."

The organization's involvement in the tragedy was first revealed on Saturday, when Ricky, Atias' mother, said that volunteers approached Z's bed in the Western Galilee Hospital in Nahariya and tried to persuade her to not to have an abortion: "There were three 'pregnancy keepers' from Efrat who told her: 'don't have an abortion, we'll support you.'"

According to the mother, the volunteers read with Z verses from Psalms while trying to persuade her not to have an abortion. "There were times when she said she wanted to keep the child, and other times she said she didn't," Ricky Atias said.

Several women's organizations, including WIZO and Na'amat, published a joint statement yesterday calling on the organization's activities to be investigated: "It is inconceivable that such an organization will be active in Israel, while creating horrifying campaigns that not only reduce the woman's body to the womb alone, but also promote revolting racist concepts," the statement read.

Efrat chairman Rabbi Dr. Eliyahu Schussheim said last night that the organization did not have any contact with Z, and "her name isn't on our lists."

An Efrat spokesperson said the organization wasn't "against abortions," but rather "pro-choice."

Bullshit. Fucking Bullshit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for finding the English version! Ha'aretz is the best news website.

I hope they will crack down on these "pro-choicers". At least be up front with the fact you're dangerous missionaries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are they missionaries? I thought they are Judaism's homegrown crazies, like Neuteri Karta. (?)

This is the first I've heard of 'em but I have to admit my BS meter was pinged because most fundie Jewish places I've been, when the topic of abortion comes up there's always people reminding that yeah in fact the US Christian "it's a baby from the moment of conception" thing is AGAINST Jewish law so be careful about voting for "pro-life" issues, you could end up voting in people who would prohibit you from having a religiously required abortion, type talk.

Makes me think I need to look them up.

As for the original story, I just cannot even begin to imagine what that girl is going through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:angry-banghead: :angry-cussingblack: What in the hell makes these people think that they are entitled to butt into other people's personal lives?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:angry-banghead: :angry-cussingblack: What in the hell makes these people think that they are entitled to butt into other people's personal lives?

Um, they are in touch with God (obviously their beliefs are the correct ones) and so they're better than the rest of us. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This isn't the only incident of ultra-right wing Orthodox groups using harassment to get their way. In 2010, an Israeli soccer star named Avi Cohen died of his injuries from a motorcycle accident. He had been a big proponent of signing up for organ donation, which rabbis are debating over whether it is allowed according to Jewish law. He had a card indicating he was an organ donor, but consent is still required from the family and they declined to donate his organs. There were reports that from the moment of his death, his family was hounded by phone calls and visits from ultra-Orthodox rabbis urging them not to donate. Because of those pricks, his organs that could have been used to save the lives of dozens of people went unused.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to check this out.

I've heard from reps from Efrat before. The pitch that they use when fundraising in North America is that they are NOT like crazy pro-life protesters here. They claim that they don't do lobbying or protesting. In their pitch, they claim that they see women who are referred to them by social workers, who have told the social workers that they are seeking an abortion for economic reasons. [in Israel, abortion is technically available only for situations of threat to the health of the mother, but such a wide definition is used that almost all requests are granted. However, the process means that social workers are involved with interviewing women seeking abortions.]

If there is proof that they are deliberately lying, I'd like to know about it and challenge them the next time they come seeking money. I had also seen them as a model for positive pro-life activity, since I deeply believe that providing actual assistance so that a real choice is available is better than demonizing and protesting, but I will reconsider my endorsement if that's not an accurate picture of what they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't get access to the entire Ha'aretz story but did read the story on Jerusalem Post:

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Artic ... ?id=288760

I'm not ready to conclusively slam Efrat based on this story.

1. The complaint is NOT coming from the young woman involved. If SHE was the one saying, "I was harassed", it would be different.

2. While any loss of life is tragic, the complaint is coming from the mother of a young man who was shot by police after threatening to kill his pregnant girlfriend. I get that she's a grieving mother, but my sympathy for her late son is limited. He was trying to do something evil. It would have been far more tragic if he had not been killed first and had succeeded. Mom is trying to blame everyone else for what happened.

3. The fact that your pregnant girlfriend decided against having an abortion is not a justification for trying to murder her. Sure, it might be stressful, but deal with it, you shmuck. I don't care if it was her idea all along to have the baby or if it came from a horoscope - it is her decision to make, not his. See point #1 - she is not saying that anyone harassed her. If it wasn't harassment but she was merely offered assistance, and if that was enough to get her to think about changing her mind, then so be it.

4. It's not clear whether the Efrat organization ever approached the woman. Hopefully, we'll get more information in the days ahead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Efrat's websites's FAQ:

Why are you forcing these women to continue their pregnancies? Doesn't a woman have a right over her own body?

We at EFRAT believe that every woman has the right to make decisions regarding her body. Therefore we do not pressure women, nor do we make demonstrations or condone violence. We just offer our support and assistance.

EFRAT has been called "the real pro-choice organization", because we allow the woman to make a real choice, based on what she really wants, without social or financial pressure.

We feel that if a woman wants to have a child, but chooses an abortion because she can't afford it, or because someone is pressuring her, then she is not doing what is really her choice.

Efrat is fundraising on the basis that it is NOT an organization that engages in pressure or demonstrations, and that it supports the idea that women have the right to make decisions concerning their bodies.

It's important to know whether or not this is in fact true.

The initial news reports that I'm seeing seem to create more questions than answers. I'd like to know:

1. Was it only the guy that informed others that he intended to commit suicide, or was the young woman a full participant in the plan?

2. What family pressure were they getting? (One source mentioned pressure by his family to abort - I don't know if this was verified)

3. Is the young woman herself complaining about Efrat?

4. If she was approached, who were these women? Were they actually from Efrat? If not, does Efrat encourage this sort of informal approach to women? Do they have policies on how women are approached or how they are referred to Efrat?

[in general, I find that it's difficult to rely on any one source for Israeli news. I'll read a combination of sources, pick out the common elements, and then try to figure out what things have actually been proven vs. what is speculation, and see if there are any further fact digging. Unfortunately, my Hebrew isn't good enough to understand the original Hebrew articles, Google translate sucks and it's not really something that I can get the kids to translate for me.]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't get access to the entire Ha'aretz story but did read the story on Jerusalem Post:

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Artic ... ?id=288760

I'm not ready to conclusively slam Efrat based on this story.

1. The complaint is NOT coming from the young woman involved. If SHE was the one saying, "I was harassed", it would be different.

2. While any loss of life is tragic, the complaint is coming from the mother of a young man who was shot by police after threatening to kill his pregnant girlfriend. I get that she's a grieving mother, but my sympathy for her late son is limited. He was trying to do something evil. It would have been far more tragic if he had not been killed first and had succeeded. Mom is trying to blame everyone else for what happened.

3. The fact that your pregnant girlfriend decided against having an abortion is not a justification for trying to murder her. Sure, it might be stressful, but deal with it, you shmuck. I don't care if it was her idea all along to have the baby or if it came from a horoscope - it is her decision to make, not his. See point #1 - she is not saying that anyone harassed her. If it wasn't harassment but she was merely offered assistance, and if that was enough to get her to think about changing her mind, then so be it.

4. It's not clear whether the Efrat organization ever approached the woman. Hopefully, we'll get more information in the days ahead.

Yeah, I'm seconding this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um . . . . Wait, why have I not heard of these people before? Anybody want to give me a rundown?

Israel has abortion laws, but in practice they are fairly liberal. Anyone under 17 or over 40 can automatically get a state-funded abortion. Otherwise, they are provide if the child was conceived outside of marriage, or for reasons of "health", but that's broadly defined to include fetal defects and the psychological well-being of the mother, so telling a social worker "I'm really stressed out about this" gets the woman an abortion.

While an abortion debate does exist in Israel, it is not the huge deal that it is in the United States. Judaism allows for abortion in some circumstances. Other social and societal issues are far more pressing. Israel has a lower income per capita than the United States, and financial issues are very real for many families. There are situations where women seeking abortions are not teens, but married women with children who are afraid that they cannot support another child.

Efrat's pitch is that they don't pressure or demonstrate, but merely provide services and support to women who are contemplating abortion due to financial pressure. In their talks, they don't demonize women, but say that they understand that real financial pressures exist, and they want to provide options for women who may not genuinely want to abort but feel that they have no other realistic option.

They know that American-style militant pro-life activitism would not get them support, either in Israel or with North American donors.

That said, their material certainly favors keeping the pregnancy over aborting. They also have a marketing campaign. There's a question of where "letting women know that we exist and that they have other options" ends and pro-life guilt trips and/or misleading information about abortion begin. There's also a question of when something is counselling to provide women with options and tools to deal with family pressure for abortion, and when counselling becomes either harassment or "brainwashing".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



  • Recent Status Updates

    • Bluebirdbluebell

      Bluebirdbluebell

      Disgusted with Catholic Church over Cardinal Pell's funeral this week. It really reflects poorly on the church and should be a red flag to Catholics.
      · 0 replies
    • PennySycamore

      PennySycamore

      I've been away since about 10 PM on Monday evening.  My husband noticed that my speech was a bit slurred, called my daughter to see if she concurred and they both agreed that I needed to go to the hospital.  There I was taken back within minutes to be evaluated for a stroke.   My BP was sky-high. I. undressed and was helped into a hospital gown.  The PureWick did not work that night so when I had to go I just went.  (I do want a PureWick if I ever get urinary stress incontenence though and would need to wear diapers.). 
      I had a CT scan fairly early the next morning and it confirmed that I'd sufffered a mild stroke,  I had an MRI that afternoon which confirmed the both the mild stroke and no other damage and yet I had another CT scan -this time with a contrast medium injected.  I was allowed the Heart Healthy diet and my BP had dropped to 180/100.  They don'y want to drop the BP too rapidly so it has dropped enough to turn to Lisinipril to drop it further.
      After the ER. I was sent to the ICU and stayed until I was discharged this afternoon.  The staff were all really nice and my husband and two daughters were with me most of the time, helping out.  My oldest daughter's van was in the shop so I let her borrow the MINI since I knew she could drive a stick.  When she was visiting yesterday afternoon, her husband was in the ER waiting on a CT can and today, she was there when the speech pathologist was visiting.  She was able to get some good advice from her as her husband is currently unable to swallow.
      Anyway I'm home.  My dogs and the cat to see me home, especially my dachsie, were happy to see me home.
      A couple of things I learned:
      I need to teach my husband about loading the dishwasher.
      and 
      Jill would never be able to handle bedpans.
      · 1 reply
    • 47of74

      47of74

      Fornicate.  Six more weeks of winter according to Phil.
      · 0 replies
    • Jinder Roles

      Jinder Roles

      Currently obsessed with Laura Mvula, a musical genius
      · 0 replies
    • Bluebirdbluebell

      Bluebirdbluebell

      I highly recommend Not the Good Girl's Youtube channel. She is making great documentaries about cults.
      · 0 replies
    • BlackberryGirl

      BlackberryGirl

      Ohh jeeze, GrandBerry6 just came to me, snuggled his face in my neck and barfed, all over me. In my neck, in my hair, on my face, down inside my nightie all over the front of my nightie. Ohh FUCK! Bath, washed hair, cleaned sofa. Good times, good times.
      · 3 replies
    • Scrabblemaster

      Scrabblemaster

      I danced through my living room feeling awesome. From time to time I do this. Maybe wine is involved. Good music is definitely involved. It is awesome. I recommend it to you. With or without wine.
      · 2 replies
    • Hazelbunny

      Hazelbunny

      After a few months of trying to decide what kind of new computer to get and my brother telling me a Mac would be the best decision I could ever make and my sister telling me that would be the worst and I ought to stick to Windows.... I now have a used Mac. I am trying to get used to it. Not easy, but the Magnifying program is a lot better than the Windows one (that was the ultimate reason for my decision) and FJ works a lot better than on my 10-year old Laptop, too!!  
      · 0 replies
    • WannabeHistorian

      WannabeHistorian

      Y'all, holter monitors suck. And naturally the palpitations that caused this test to be ordered are remarkably absent today. 
      I'm off to go work out in the hopes that triggers it. T minus 10 hours till I get this thing off. 
      · 4 replies
    • 47of74

      47of74

      Fuck Fornicate.  Glad I got in to see this place before the world went to shit.
       
      · 0 replies
  • Recent Blog Entries

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.