I want to be a Munck

[WonderingInWA]

Their latest blog post is photos of their son's candy-themed birthday party. They go all out with the theme and it just looks like FUN. And they have 11 kids so there must be a lot of FUN going on in that house most of the time.

It's just no wonder Elizabeth bailed on marrying the Maxwell boy. To go from a house where there is always something being celebrated and decorated to living in the Maxwell Penitentiary would have been so unjust.

[Artemis]

Those were some very sweet and silly (in a good way) and loving photos. Really bright and colourful and cheerful. I too agree that to go from that to the Maxwell Penitentiary would have been unimaginable.

Pity they are still Vision Forum affiliates though - means you can't forget the poison of patriarchy behind all that sugar.

[luckystone]

Nooooo you don't! They seem sweet but remember they are still terrible deep down.

I don't think it's much FUN for Elizabeth there either (anything is better than the Maxwells!). She is a full-time teacher to her brother with Down's syndrome! I mean, I'm all for spending time with siblings (I do a LOT more than average for my age), and it might be quite rewarding, but really...she's 20, maybe she should, I dunno, get a degree or a job or something. Or both. Instead of being exploited by her parents.

[pixydust]

I sort of understand your feelings. The Muncks aren't as bad as the others that we snark on, they really seem to love their kids, they have so much fun, they didn't force Elizabeth to marry Joseph, and Jonathon seems to be thriving. They are on my "not so bad" list (the Pearls, Maxwells, Lori Alexander, Zsu, those are on my "really nasty" list). What I dislike of them is that their daughters aren't going to college! If Elizabeth enjoys teaching Jonathon, why can't she go to an accredited school and get a degree in Special Education? Grrrr, nothing like squashing someone's God given talents, KWIM?

[WonderingInWA]

well, certainly Elizabeth has that "Beth Serven" look often -- that not fully joyful smile, but I just think she must be thankful there are still some parties to attend that likely don't involve Bible time.

[Closed Womb]

I don't want to be a Munck, but I do want a CandyLand party! It cheers me up just to look at those photos.

It wouldn't surprise me if this family had a "take what you like and leave the rest" attitude towards VF and other organizations. At least I hope they do. Count me glad that this family didn't lost a daughter to the Maxwell deprivation tank.

[pixydust]

I don't want to be a Munck, but I do want a CandyLand party! It cheers me up just to look at those photos.

It wouldn't surprise me if this family had a "take what you like and leave the rest" attitude towards VF and other organizations. At least I hope they do. Count me glad that this family didn't lost a daughter to the Maxwell deprivation tank.

I know! I wish I had thought of that when my kids were little enough!

[lilwriter85]

I sort of understand your feelings. The Muncks aren't as bad as the others that we snark on, they really seem to love their kids, they have so much fun, they didn't force Elizabeth to marry Joseph, and Jonathon seems to be thriving. They are on my "not so bad" list (the Pearls, Maxwells, Lori Alexander, Zsu, those are on my "really nasty" list). What I dislike of them is that their daughters aren't going to college! If Elizabeth enjoys teaching Jonathon, why can't she go to an accredited school and get a degree in Special Education? Grrrr, nothing like squashing someone's God given talents, KWIM?

That is how I feel about the Muncks. They aren't as bad as the ones you mentioned. But the part with Elizabeth being Jonathon's teacher does have me concerned. I do wonder if the Muncks get educational/therapy assistance from the state or their local school district.

[formergothardite]

IMO, the "fun" fundies are the most dangerous ones. Normal folks look at ZsuZsu, Maxwells and the Pearls and see their crazy lifestyle and run far away. But the fundies that look like they are "not that bad" are the ones that have an easier time recruiting others into the patriarchal, women belong to daddy and then their husband lifestyle. They still believe most of the wretched things that the other fundies do, they just sugar coat it so it is easier for non-fundies to accept.

[SisiL78]

IMO, the "fun" fundies are the most dangerous ones. Normal folks look at ZsuZsu, Maxwells and the Pearls and see their crazy lifestyle and run far away. But the fundies that look like they are "not that bad" are the ones that have an easier time recruiting others into the patriarchal, women belong to daddy and then their husband lifestyle. They still believe most of the wretched things that the other fundies do, they just sugar coat it so it is easier for non-fundies to accept.

The Muncks do possess a lot of cute but they still believe in a philosophy that will limit and enslave their children and they will try to spread that dangerous philosophy around.

[YPestis]

I agree with others here....the Muncks are not that bad compared to the Maxwells and other super fringe fundies, but we have to remember they're still fundies. They still believe that a woman's place is at home, that having a whole bunch of kids is what everyone should do, that children should be raised to avoid those seculars and nonbelievers. It's concerning that they have a special needs child who is being tended to by an unlicensed, untrained 20 year old girl who has never been to college or received training in special education. Shouldn't their Down Syndrome son at least receive some outside help? It's attitudes like that which reminds me that the Muncks still follow a dangerous belief system. That said, I'm glad they avoided going even further down the path of craziness. The Maxwells are like the holy grail of crazy, right-wing fundieness.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I don't want to be a Munck, because they're still fundies. And their fun exterior is more likely to attract other people to the lifestyle. But I don't think it'd be very fun to be a Munck, because as a woman i'd be expected to do nothing but stay home and cook and clean until it comes time to get married and have as many babies as humanly possible. So not doing what I'm passionate about with my life doesn't seem fun. Though being a Munck is preferable to being a Maxwell, so Elizabeth still dodged a bullet.

[jaynie]

Yeah, it's not that great a compliment to say you'd rather be a Munck than a Maxwell. I can't think of many families I'd like to be in LESS than the Maxwells (Pearls, maybe?). I'm really glad they didn't force Elizabeth to go through with the wedding, but that is a very low standard. It's like when people say the Duggars are good parents because they aren't on welfare. NO. They're just shitty parents who happen not to be on welfare. The Muncks are shitty parents who happen not to be buzzkills. They're probably really great for fundie parents, but that's not difficult. Though I do find Elizabeth's will to say "no" promising.

[lilwriter85]

I think at least one of the Munck kids will leave the fundie lifestyle and become a mainstream type. The Muncks do have more fun than the Maxwells do. But there is probably a lot that they still control when it comes to their kids. They probably only allow their kids to be friends with kids from other fundie families. I get the vibe that none of the kids do hobbies or activities outside the home. I recall that either Elizabeth or one of the older girls received a Kindle on her birthday. I wouldn't be surprised if the Muncks have limits on what their kids read. I bet Harry Potter, Hunger Games, and several popular non Christian books are banned.

I think they seem to do well with Jonathan. As I mentioned before, Elizabeth being his teacher is a concern. I wonder if the Muncks are connected with other DS families or organizations in their area. I haven't found anything on the blog that shows that. My boyfriend used to be a volunteer coach for Special Olympics and the DS families he worked with stayed in a network. There were playdates and meetups that happened outside of SO. My bf is hoping to start volunteering again with SO next year. He occasionally reads DS and other special needs family blogs from around the country and he has shown some of the blogs. I occasionally check out the below blog. This Ohio couple's son is 2 or 3 with DS. In the past few years, they have built quite a bit of connections with other DS families near them.

wilsway.blogspot.com/

[luckystone]

Good point. Maybe it is MORE dangerous because people want that lifestyle.

[Guest Anonymous]

IMO, the "fun" fundies are the most dangerous ones. Normal folks look at ZsuZsu, Maxwells and the Pearls and see their crazy lifestyle and run far away. But the fundies that look like they are "not that bad" are the ones that have an easier time recruiting others into the patriarchal, women belong to daddy and then their husband lifestyle. They still believe most of the wretched things that the other fundies do, they just sugar coat it so it is easier for non-fundies to accept.

Maybe they are ordered to look more fun, like advertising for the lifestyle.

[Witsec7]

I dont keep pet fundies, nor do I desire to be one of them. I am not envious of them simply because they can buy coordinated paper plates and party decorations. Fact is they are fundies, they want to limit the rights of people I love and care about and , they want to control my uterus.

[WonderingInWA]

I think I just want to go to one of their parties and eat cake and candy. Honestly, I've attended kids' birthday parties for years, and she really goes all out with the details and I'm impressed (I have kids and have never made a party look that detailed -- mommy party failure right here!).

[Naga Viper]

Ehh. I'm not seeing anything anyone else couldn't put together with enough time and budget--if anything, I see a few things I would upgrade. (I'm big on themed dinner parties and often will do nostalgia-related concepts, so a Candyland one wouldn't be much of a stretch, especially now that some of my friends have very young children who come to these things.) I say start composing an idea list and saving your pennies now, then just go all out on your own kids' birthdays to get it out of your system.

Also, no doubt this has been pointed out countless times, but as a name, "Ruth Ella" is dangerously close to rubella.

[BabyFullOfSin]

IMO, the "fun" fundies are the most dangerous ones. Normal folks look at ZsuZsu, Maxwells and the Pearls and see their crazy lifestyle and run far away. But the fundies that look like they are "not that bad" are the ones that have an easier time recruiting others into the patriarchal, women belong to daddy and then their husband lifestyle. They still believe most of the wretched things that the other fundies do, they just sugar coat it so it is easier for non-fundies to accept.

I agree.. they're the gateway fundies - the slippery slope for newbies to the fundamentalist viewpoint

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Nothing at all wrong with being inspired by their parties. I think their themed tree in the kitchen is awesome, and their parties are great. But you just have to be upfront about taking things you admire from people, without all the baggage. Take what you like, and thank the person you were inspired from, but that's no reason to buy into all of their life.

Similar goes for the Maxwells, I'll admit that on one level I actually have some things in common with them. I'm into keeping a schedule, and some of the practical tips Teri has given (such as, set a timer to do X minutes of a task, so you can start it anytime and not be continually putting stuff off thinking "but I need to wait until a nice number on the clock") ring true with me and I also do those things. But I will not be shy to admit that the TASKS I have on my schedule are probably 180 degrees apart from what they do. Heck, I have "read books while having beer" as an item. Why? It's important to me and if it's not on the schedule, work will overrun it :)

[WonderingInWA]

Nothing at all wrong with being inspired by their parties. I think their themed tree in the kitchen is awesome, and their parties are great. But you just have to be upfront about taking things you admire from people, without all the baggage. Take what you like, and thank the person you were inspired from, but that's no reason to buy into all of their life.

Similar goes for the Maxwells, I'll admit that on one level I actually have some things in common with them. I'm into keeping a schedule, and some of the practical tips Teri has given (such as, set a timer to do X minutes of a task, so you can start it anytime and not be continually putting stuff off thinking "but I need to wait until a nice number on the clock") ring true with me and I also do those things. But I will not be shy to admit that the TASKS I have on my schedule are probably 180 degrees apart from what they do. Heck, I have "read books while having beer" as an item. Why? It's important to me and if it's not on the schedule, work will overrun it :)

Yes, well, I only started the thread because of the party pictures. I don't want to have anything to do with their religious beliefs and affiliation with VF. It just struck me that you'd never EVER see that kind of fanfare at the Maxwell house.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Yes, well, I only started the thread because of the party pictures. I don't want to have anything to do with their religious beliefs and affiliation with VF. It just struck me that you'd never EVER see that kind of fanfare at the Maxwell house.

Totally. I'm 100% with ya. Didn't mean to imply you personally are taking too much in.

I also love the party pictures and have for quite some time - I agree it's nothing the Maxwells would ever allow. Personally I wonder when/how/if that specific topic maybe came up during the whole courtship saga. I can just imagine if they got married and are living in Chez Beige and then Elizabeth decides hey, it's fall! let's have a nice leaf centerpiece and I'll bake some maple cookies in the shape of leaves... :)

[WonderingInWA]

Totally. I'm 100% with ya. Didn't mean to imply you personally are taking too much in.

I also love the party pictures and have for quite some time - I agree it's nothing the Maxwells would ever allow. Personally I wonder when/how/if that specific topic maybe came up during the whole courtship saga. I can just imagine if they got married and are living in Chez Beige and then Elizabeth decides hey, it's fall! let's have a nice leaf centerpiece and I'll bake some maple cookies in the shape of leaves... :)

And certainly never that tree. I love the tree -- what fun. I only have 2 kids and they would love something like that but I'm just too lazy, I think!

[lilith]

I can't forget that they found the Maxwell philosophy laudable and were willing to "transfer authority" for their daughter to the Maxwells. No amount of fun decorations can take that away.

They knew what the Maxwells are all about. They probably know more about it than most of us, having attended conferences, read their materials and formed a relationship with the family. And that is what they aspire to for their eldest daughter.

If she hadn't said no she would be a Maxwell by now. Allowing her to call it off is different to disapproving of the match themselves. And realistically, they couldn't have made her go through with it if she was determined not to. Choosing not to force ones 20 year old daughter into a marriage she doesn't want doesnt make them particularly laudable to me, it is what I would expect of any decent human being. And I suspect that the fact Elizabeth had the strength to cancel the engagement comes from the fact that her upbringing was mainly fundie lite so she grew up with a sense of her own rights and autonomy, I doubt her younger sisters who have been raised in more intense fundiedom will have that confidence when they grow up.