I want to be a Munck

[Guest Anonymous]

Is there a link to these people? I want to see the parties.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

And certainly never that tree. I love the tree -- what fun. I only have 2 kids and they would love something like that but I'm just too lazy, I think!

Heck yeah the tree is amazing. When I first saw their blog that caught my eye and still impresses me now, so many people have a Xmas tree but that's it. But, to deck out a tree for all seasons and so make the theme a game, that's cool. (And so, so, SO not Steve-O-approved.)

It could be anything really, a tree or a bulletin board or a table with items on it or whatever, but the idea of having some THING there in the common room that gets themed up for the seasons and any event people want to commemorate is awesome.

...yet I'll edit to say, I like the idea of the themed tree because I like to mark the seasons and have all sorts of little seasonal rituals myself, as a secular person. So I might talk to them about that, specifically, oh, I like your theme, the cupcakes are darling. I love this time of year too, and even can share with the Maxwells some appreciation for how the weather has been on their trip. But their religion? Even as fundie lite as it might be, I don't buy it.

[luckystone]

Is there a link to these people? I want to see the parties.

muncksquiver DOT blogspot DOT com

[thoughtful]

IMO, the "fun" fundies are the most dangerous ones. Normal folks look at ZsuZsu, Maxwells and the Pearls and see their crazy lifestyle and run far away. But the fundies that look like they are "not that bad" are the ones that have an easier time recruiting others into the patriarchal, women belong to daddy and then their husband lifestyle. They still believe most of the wretched things that the other fundies do, they just sugar coat it so it is easier for non-fundies to accept.

Absolutely.

The Duggars can make it look like "just a big, happy Christian family" to a large part of the population, but we see through that.

The Muncks just do a better job of that illusion (and aren't on TV, so things can be even better edited for a blog). Maybe they all genuinely love one another, work for the family business willingly and have no other ambitions, and have some fun -- if so, I guess that's nice.

But they are still living, and pushing, a lifestyle that does bad things to men, and horrible things to women.

[thoughtful]

Yes, well, I only started the thread because of the party pictures. I don't want to have anything to do with their religious beliefs and affiliation with VF. It just struck me that you'd never EVER see that kind of fanfare at the Maxwell house.

Hope this thread hasn't made you feel piled-on.

I was, as I often am, mostly posting for lurkers and newbies -- people who still haven't seen through the pretty exterior. I know you have.

Maybe it's the title of the thread -- if I think "just for the day of this party!" at the end of it, that helps! :lol:

[kbohn23]

I wonder if the Muncks are connected with other DS families or organizations in their area. I haven't found anything on the blog that shows that. My boyfriend used to be a volunteer coach for Special Olympics and the DS families he worked with stayed in a network. There were playdates and meetups that happened outside of SO. My bf is hoping to start volunteering again with SO next year. He occasionally reads DS and other special needs family blogs from around the country and he has shown some of the blogs. I occasionally check out the below blog. This Ohio couple's son is 2 or 3 with DS. In the past few years, they have built quite a bit of connections with other DS families near them.

wilsway.blogspot.com/

If I remember correctly, when I first found their website a few years ago, they had a blogroll on it. Included in the blogroll were a number of other blogs of families with DS children. I don't know if these were people that they actually saw in person or even read the blogs, but they at least were somewhat connected to other DS families. Not sure why they removed their blogroll.

I agree with a number of other posters, I wouldn't buy into everything they do, but they definitely have some fun ideas when it comes to parties. And good for them for celebrating.

[lilith]

If I remember correctly, when I first found their website a few years ago, they had a blogroll on it. Included in the blogroll were a number of other blogs of families with DS children. I don't know if these were people that they actually saw in person or even read the blogs, but they at least were somewhat connected to other DS families. Not sure why they removed their blogroll.

I agree with a number of other posters, I wouldn't buy into everything they do, but they definitely have some fun ideas when it comes to parties. And good for them for celebrating.

Just curious, how did you find their website a few years ago? Of the dozens upon dozens of fundie blogs I have read only a very few link to Muncks Quiver and very few of our members, even the most avid fundie watchers, knew of them before the Maxwell engagement fiasco.

[kbohn23]

Just curious, how did you find their website a few years ago? Of the dozens upon dozens of fundie blogs I have read only a very few link to Muncks Quiver and very few of our members, even the most avid fundie watchers, knew of them before the Maxwell engagement fiasco.

I honestly can't remember how I found their site, but my guess is that I followed a link from another blog. That's how I found most of the blogs I follow, through blogrolls and comment sections. They also, used to have a blog for their business, and since I love dogs I was hooked immediately :D

Off topic, but my first fundy blog that I found was www. alotofstevens.com, I don't think they have been discussed at all and for the life of me I can't tell you how I found them. They're not that exciting, but they were my first.

[Artemis]

I think it would be good to be able to say

'Yes, they look as if they are having fun' - especially that it's great to see the love for the lad with Down's Syndrome and the effort they've gone to to give him a happy time, just like any other family . . .

AND to acknowledge that their lifestyle is still poisoned by patriarchy and dangerous as a 'gateway', and based on a slew of false premises, erroneous beliefs and damaging rules. . .

without it being assumed that one is colluding with or enabling this family's choices by treating them as 'pet fundies' . . .

which is a phrase that I know is in common usage here, (and which people are entitled to use, just as they use 'lard lad') but which I, personally, particularly dislike. Fundies or not, in my opinion, to refer to humans as 'pets' is demeaning in the same way as fat shaming is demeaning: it 'others' them.

Actually, it also demeans pets, many of whom, as companion animals, act with more basic integrity and humanity than some fundamentalists of whatever denomination.

This is a comment, not a handslap, as my opinion obviously can't in any way be taken to be authoritative or prescriptive.

[Arete]

Count me in as another person who cannot find anything laudable in what the Muncks do. If you want good party decoration and theme ideas, go to marthastewart.com. There are tons of great ideas there. There are also scheduling ideas. It's not like these people have some rare ability the rest of us can't tap into if we want a special party for our kids or centerpieces for our homes.

I find the fact they use Elizabeth as a "tutor" for their DS son particularly vile. There are resources and organizations by run by real educators that would give their son a rich, full education tailored to his needs and abilities. But to them keeping him from being contaminated by the public school heathens is more important. Just another set of fundies sacrificing their children on the altar of their twisted theology. Nothing to see here.

[Guest Anonymous]

Elizabeth is also sister-mother to the three year old isn't she?

I hold the Munck parents totally responsible for Elizabeth's engagement to Joe in the first place. They arranged her a marriage for god's sake! I'm glad they 'let' her out of it, and I'm glad they poked Steve in the eye later on, but even then they left Elizabeth to be the one to totally deal with posting the break-up news on their website, when she was so upset that her writing was like garbage. So much for the 'family unity' that caused them to stop Elizabeth's own blog in the preceding months. :roll:

If I had to choose to live with the Muncks or the Maxwells, I'd choose Team Munck any day, but only because the chances of escape would be better. Neither family allow their children any real education or independence at all.

[WonderingInWA]

Hope this thread hasn't made you feel piled-on.

I was, as I often am, mostly posting for lurkers and newbies -- people who still haven't seen through the pretty exterior. I know you have.

Maybe it's the title of the thread -- if I think "just for the day of this party!" at the end of it, that helps! :lol:

I do not feel piled-on, but thank you! I really just meant it to be somewhat sarcastic because obviously NO ONE wants to be a Munck for all the reasons listed here. I just would like someone to throw a party for me for my birthday that was that detailed and fun -- Candyland cake, decorated tree, cool table decorations, etc. That's all. I think most people on this board who know anything about me know I am horrified by their religious beliefs and VF affiliation and social climbing and overreproduction. But the party looked cool.

BTW, my own birthday is next week and I like hydrangeas, lilacs, and dogs. Now....GO!

[Naga Viper]

I hear you. A week's not a lot of time, but you should circulate the photos—not the blog link, don't give them them the hits—to family and friends and tell them you want something similar. Although you may need to take matters in your own hands to get the result you want. Or again, just go balls-out on your kids' parties during the coming year. They'll love you for it, and you can literally have your Candyland cake and eat it too, fundie-guilt-free. In fact, I say one-up them and then post photos here so lurking fundies can see ebil libruls can outdo them at wholesome whimsy too.

[WonderingInWA]

I hear you. A week's not a lot of time, but you should circulate the photos—not the blog link, don't give them them the hits—to family and friends and tell them you want something similar. Although you may need to take matters in your own hands to get the result you want. Or again, just go balls-out on your kids' parties during the coming year. They'll love you for it, and you can literally have your Candyland cake and eat it too, fundie-guilt-free. In fact, I say one-up them and then post photos here so lurking fundies can see ebil libruls can outdo them at wholesome whimsy too.

:lol:

[latraviata]

Their latest blog post is photos of their son's candy-themed birthday party. They go all out with the theme and it just looks like FUN. And they have 11 kids so there must be a lot of FUN going on in that house most of the time.

It's just no wonder Elizabeth bailed on marrying the Maxwell boy. To go from a house where there is always something being celebrated and decorated to living in the Maxwell Penitentiary would have been so unjust.

Yes,this is all very well, but I don't want to be a Munck at all. Their son has Downn syndrom and according to his mother ' he is blessed with an extra chromosome'. Perhaps they are somewhat more festive than the Maxwells, Andersons, Alexanders and Duggars, but they are as moronic as every random fundi/fundielite and the like.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Elizabeth is also sister-mother to the three year old isn't she?

I hold the Munck parents totally responsible for Elizabeth's engagement to Joe in the first place. They arranged her a marriage for god's sake! I'm glad they 'let' her out of it, and I'm glad they poked Steve in the eye later on, but even then they left Elizabeth to be the one to totally deal with posting the break-up news on their website, when she was so upset that her writing was like garbage. So much for the 'family unity' that caused them to stop Elizabeth's own blog in the preceding months. :roll:

If I had to choose to live with the Muncks or the Maxwells, I'd choose Team Munck any day, but only because the chances of escape would be better. Neither family allow their children any real education or independence at all.

Yeah - the speed at which they drank the Kool-Aid (the Muncks only went to their first Maxwell conference in 2008 when Elizabeth was already 16 years old, standing in front of her new car in jeans and a hoodie - I think that's important to point out, every time!!) is one of the things that sort of fascinates me about the Muncks. And by "fascinates" I mean in the same manner as the Maxwells, i.e. a sort of horrid wonder at what lies underneath a rock overturned in the garden. No way I ever want to belong to either group. A visit would be interesting, purely as reconnaissance...

[WonderingInWA]

I would love to make myself up a calico frumper and attend one of their conferences just to see what the hell they say. But I don't want to waste the time. You know, because I need to be HERE. LOL.

[lilwriter85]

Count me in as another person who cannot find anything laudable in what the Muncks do. If you want good party decoration and theme ideas, go to marthastewart.com. There are tons of great ideas there. There are also scheduling ideas. It's not like these people have some rare ability the rest of us can't tap into if we want a special party for our kids or centerpieces for our homes.

I find the fact they use Elizabeth as a "tutor" for their DS son particularly vile. There are resources and organizations by run by real educators that would give their son a rich, full education tailored to his needs and abilities. But to them keeping him from being contaminated by the public school heathens is more important. Just another set of fundies sacrificing their children on the altar of their twisted theology. Nothing to see here.

I think that is probably the worst thing about the Muncks. I just read lillith's post about how they used to have a blogroll of other DS blogs. My guess is that they likely took down the blogroll because the other DS families had their children in public school or were having them being tutored by real teachers. I can see other families with DS or special needs families being annoyed with the Muncks having Elizabeth as Jonathan's tutor. I can also see some families with DS children disliking Arthur and Laura for having several children after Jonathan. Debates come up often in the DS community. When my boyfriend was a coach with Special Olympics, he saw some of those debates. He knew families that stopped having kids after having a DS kid. A few of them said that they didn't want other kids because they already had enough on their plates. He said they were other families that had kids after a DS kid. People did clash at times about whether a couple should continuing having kids after a DS child and my bf said that some of those arguments between those families got nasty at times. The families that my bf knew from weren't large 10+ kid families like the Muncks though.

[SisiL78]

I think that is probably the worst thing about the Muncks. I just read lillith's post about how they used to have a blogroll of other DS blogs. My guess is that they likely took down the blogroll because the other DS families had their children in public school or were having them being tutored by real teachers. I can see other families with DS or special needs families being annoyed with the Muncks having Elizabeth as Jonathan's tutor. I can also see some families with DS children disliking Arthur and Laura for having several children after Jonathan. Debates come up often in the DS community. When my boyfriend was a coach with Special Olympics, he saw some of those debates. He knew families that stopped having kids after having a DS kid. A few of them said that they didn't want other kids because they already had enough on their plates. He said they were other families that had kids after a DS kid. People did clash at times about whether a couple should continuing having kids after a DS child and my bf said that some of those arguments between those families got nasty at times. The families that my bf knew from weren't large 10+ kid families like the Muncks though.

Wow, I'm amazed at that. You'd think that the parents could cooperate and not judge others for their choices. While I am sure that some couples are more prone to DS kids than others due to some unknown genetic pre-disposition or perhaps to age or whatever it seems uncalled for. Honestly, I think if I had a DS kid and wanted more I'd go the IVF route and check the embryos for DS before implantation (I assume that's possible?) As a mass of a few dozen/hundred cells I don't feel that they are human in the least bit so I don't think I'd feel any guilt. And it wouldn't be ANYONE's business!!!!

I also don't understand why the Muncks don't get the help for Jonathan that he needs. Its not a job for someone untrained. Its great that his siblings are involved with him and tutor him. But, he needs specialized care and I'm sure there are a lot of resources out there for him. He'd definately qualify for (nearly) free insurance and he'd probably be qualified to get some sort of welfare or SS payment. I think that as his caretakers his parents would also qualify for assistance. Its fine now for him to be uneducated I guess. His siblings are probably in the same boat too. But, once his parents are gone and he needs to advocate for himself he's not going to have the ability to make decisions and stand up for his wants. Yes, he'll have siblings who will take care of him. But, he's still a human being and they should do whatever it takes to give him the chance to voice his needs and opinions.

[lilwriter85]

Wow, I'm amazed at that. You'd think that the parents could cooperate and not judge others for their choices. While I am sure that some couples are more prone to DS kids than others due to some unknown genetic pre-disposition or perhaps to age or whatever it seems uncalled for. Honestly, I think if I had a DS kid and wanted more I'd go the IVF route and check the embryos for DS before implantation (I assume that's possible?) As a mass of a few dozen/hundred cells I don't feel that they are human in the least bit so I don't think I'd feel any guilt. And it wouldn't be ANYONE's business!!!!

I also don't understand why the Muncks don't get the help for Jonathan that he needs. Its not a job for someone untrained. Its great that his siblings are involved with him and tutor him. But, he needs specialized care and I'm sure there are a lot of resources out there for him. He'd definately qualify for (nearly) free insurance and he'd probably be qualified to get some sort of welfare or SS payment. I think that as his caretakers his parents would also qualify for assistance. Its fine now for him to be uneducated I guess. His siblings are probably in the same boat too. But, once his parents are gone and he needs to advocate for himself he's not going to have the ability to make decisions and stand up for his wants. Yes, he'll have siblings who will take care of him. But, he's still a human being and they should do whatever it takes to give him the chance to voice his needs and opinions.

I also don't understand why Muncks do get specialized help from Jonathan. I think they did when he was very young. They might collecting an SS payment for him, but they won't say it on the blog. My guess is that once the parents are gone, the kids will advocate for Jonathan. I can see that being a bad situation, because they will likely follow Arthur and Laura's lead and not accept or seek out certain resources for their brother.

[Coconut Flan]

That would be an SSI check not Social Security. One is the ebil welfare and the other is not. :)

I'm not current on the rules, but the family owning a business might be too much in assets for him to receive a benefit.

Depending on the child and the school system, it is occasionally possible for a Down Syndrome child to get a better education at home. I've known two students that applied to which is not a huge sample. One mother who did that I've known for years and she was extremely educated on the subject. Although she was a middle aged college educated mother of five, not a homeschooled 20 year old.