Homosexuality And Genetics

[debrand]

truthforthought.blogspot.com/2011/03/is-homosexual-behavior-determined-by.html

One of the arguments, and probably the most widely used, is an appeal to nature--their genes.

That is because most people can't help whether they find their own sex, both sex or the opposite attractive. If homosexuality is a choice then so is heterosexuality. Yet, I've never heard any conservative/fundamentalist claim that they have to make a conscious decision to be straight.

I recently got into a discussion with a friend of mine about this issue. Throughout the course of our discussion she made this statement to defend homosexual behavior: "Genetics control our behavior. It controls everything about us and who we become." *emphasis mine* Now think about that for a second. She says genetics control everything. What would everything include? That would include things like what I look like, my hair, my eyes, my height, things like what I like to eat, what I like to wear, and even things like what I believe, what I think is the truth, and even what I am typing at this very moment--according to my friend, is entirely controlled by our genetics--including sexual orientation

Although I believe that genetics are involved in sexual attraction, I would not have made used his friend's argument to convince him. To me the bigger question is why should anyone care. It doesn't hurt me or anyone else if two adult men consent to have sex. A person who believes that homosexuality is against their faith should not sleep with their own sex.

If you want to read his post, you have to scroll half way down the page.

This comment under his article made me do this :doh:

I witnessed hundreds, maybe thousands of kids "evolve" into gays and lesbians throughout my middle school, high school, and college years. In fact, I was very close friends with a number of people who were openly gay

Really? Thousands?

[debrand]

More from the only comment to the article:

Through time there were even both gays and lesbians that tried convincing me to "convert" to homosexuality, which of course were always failed attempts. Since I have been born again and saved by the grace that is in Jesus Christ, I have been burdened for the homosexual community. It is my prayer to see them converted BACK TO HETEROSEXUALITY in a Christian World that typically only condemns them without any compassion whatsoever. The King James Bible clearly teaches against gays AND lesbians, not as hate speeches but as HOLY WARNINGS FROM A HOLY GOD! As much as gays and lesbians would bitterly deny this, homosexuality is nothing more than a level of perverse fornication which sears the conscience and offends God. It is not a "genetic force" any more than those who may choose to commit adultery, murder, lie, hate, or abuse children. We are sinners in need of a Saviour. We choose to repent or to continue living in our sins. HOMOSEXUALITY IS A CHOICE

[Gil]

I usually just send people this.

[jjj]

I don't think that most scientists believe that genetic predisposition is a likely explanation. As best I can recall, the most compelling explanation (albeit still regarded as somewhat speculative) is that hormonal levels and distribution in the mother, especially in the first few months of pregnancy, determine sexual orientation.

As a straight parent of two gay children (now adults) I can attest, in retrospect, that they both were "gay" long before reaching puberty and caring about sexual attraction or orientation.

[over-thinker]

I think that for most gay people there is a genetic link. For a long time, I was obsessed about it. I just felt like I really needed to understand.

I also know that there are people that are in same sex relationships because of choice. As in, they have the ability to be one way or another or just prefer one over the other.

[doggie]

More from the only comment to the article:

Me thinks there is something wrong with this dude I mean he things gays are trying to convert him? he knows hundreds or thousands that converted? I think he was premature born again and he does not have healing hands but healing flippers.

[crassy]

This argument is tired and boring. I wish people would stop using it. Even if homosexuality was a choice (which it isn't), who fucking cares? Being a christian is a choice and a lot of these fundies cry oppression when someone tries to 'take away their rights'.

My bigger concern about these people is why they are so interested in the sex lives of others. It is extremely creepy and weird to me.

[Arete]

I has the sadz. :( All these people know thousands of people who were converted to homosexuality by gays and lesbians. I have never been propositioned by a lesbian once. Not. Even. Once. Am I too, not a woman? Am I really that ugly that the other team won't even consider me a bench warmer? *Sobs*

[Antipodes]

This argument is tired and boring. I wish people would stop using it. Even if homosexuality was a choice (which it isn't), who fucking cares? Being a christian is a choice and a lot of these fundies cry oppression when someone tries to 'take away their rights'.

My bigger concern about these people is why they are so interested in the sex lives of others. It is extremely creepy and weird to me.

So true. There are more passages in the bible cautioning against debt than homosexuality but are they obesessed with people's credit card statements ? No!

Fundies are obsessed with sex and particularly their daughters sex lives, shudder.

[Gil]

I has the sadz. :( All these people know thousands of people who were converted to homosexuality by gays and lesbians. I have never been propositioned by a lesbian once. Not. Even. Once. Am I too, not a woman? Am I really that ugly that the other team won't even consider me a bench warmer? *Sobs*

Well hey there.

Imagine that I'm at your doorstep in a pantsuit at a time that is inconvenient for you, just to get you into the converting mood. Ma'am, have you ever considered becoming a lesbian? We need you. You're too irresistible not to be a lesbian. Also, if you like cuddling, boobs make wonderful pillows. We can even throw in a toaster. Also, we have Ellen.

Consider yourself propositioned.

[over-thinker]

I has the sadz. :( All these people know thousands of people who were converted to homosexuality by gays and lesbians. I have never been propositioned by a lesbian once. Not. Even. Once. Am I too, not a woman? Am I really that ugly that the other team won't even consider me a bench warmer? *Sobs*

Hey, I will hit on you. :lol:

Once a long time ago I had a short conversation with a girl I worked with. She was freaking out about finding out some girl was gay. "oh my god - what if she starts hitting on me" - Of course my initial thought was "bitch, please" but I waited a minute and then I asked her if she thought Alan Rickman was hot. Initially she did not know who he was. After she figured it out she was totally aghast that I would even ask that, but not really getting what I was hinting at. I told her that she might think she is really super awesome, but not all lesbians are attracted to women just because they are women.

Times I've recruited? Never.

Must work on that.

[Arete]

Well hey there.

Imagine that I'm at your doorstep in a pantsuit at a time that is inconvenient for you, just to get you into the converting mood. Ma'am, have you ever considered becoming a lesbian? We need you. You're too irresistible not to be a lesbian. Also, if you like cuddling, boobs make wonderful pillows. We can even throw in a toaster. Also, we have Ellen.

Consider yourself propositioned.

'K.

Edit to Add- Propositioned twice in one night. Woo-hoo! :dance:

[Antipodes]

I tell my husband he must have been one hell of an ugly kid. He went to a Christian brothers school and none of the brothers hit on him.

[OkToBeTakei]

I has the sadz. :( All these people know thousands of people who were converted to homosexuality by gays and lesbians. I have never been propositioned by a lesbian once. Not. Even. Once. Am I too, not a woman? Am I really that ugly that the other team won't even consider me a bench warmer? *Sobs*

Aww I was going to switch on my genetic Lesbian just to ask you. I am fairly sure you are absolutely gorgeous..damn gays not asking you out :lol:

[wtfrenchtoast]

This argument is tired and boring. I wish people would stop using it. Even if homosexuality was a choice (which it isn't), who fucking cares? Being a christian is a choice and a lot of these fundies cry oppression when someone tries to 'take away their rights'.

Yes, this! I try never to use the genetic argument. First, I'm not convinced its entirely genetic. But second, who gives a fuck? Why do I care if my best friend chooses to be attracted to women or not? Crassy put it very well: some people choose to believe, say, or do really stupid shit, but we don't take away their rights. I say as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, I don't care. Hell, I hate mushrooms with a burning passion. Lots of people inherently like mushrooms. Lots of people also choose to acquire a taste for mushrooms. Do I want to make mushrooms illegal just because I don't like them? No. I just choose not to eat them. It's really quite easy. As long as no one shoves mushrooms down my throat, they can eat all they want.

[OkToBeTakei]

Yes, this! I try never to use the genetic argument. First, I'm not convinced its entirely genetic. But second, who gives a fuck? Why do I care if my best friend chooses to be attracted to women or not? Crassy put it very well: some people choose to believe, say, or do really stupid shit, but we don't take away their rights. I say as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, I don't care. Hell, I hate mushrooms with a burning passion. Lots of people inherently like mushrooms. Lots of people also choose to acquire a taste for mushrooms. Do I want to make mushrooms illegal just because I don't like them? No. I just choose not to eat them. It's really quite easy. As long as no one shoves mushrooms down my throat, they can eat all they want.

As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

We say it often. Look at what Steve Maxwell is doing to his kids..or Zsu...But ..they are God fearing/loving straight folk...so that makes it ok.

They have not got a clue what it means to be a good person.

My child would live with you regarding the mushrooms :lol:

[Renting with Raggles]

I has the sadz. :( All these people know thousands of people who were converted to homosexuality by gays and lesbians. I have never been propositioned by a lesbian once. Not. Even. Once. Am I too, not a woman? Am I really that ugly that the other team won't even consider me a bench warmer? *Sobs*

I've been asked out by two lesbians in two years. What can I do? I obviously ooze raw sex appeal, can't stop it ladies, sorry. 8-)

* I'm reading this thread while eating dinner in bed, a la Fat Bastard. Just thought I'd provide the seckzy image to go with the statement above.*

[Hevcoh]

I am gay. My identical twin brother is bisexual-leaning-gay. We grew up mostly separated from each other, so nurture doesn't really stand against nature. Our younger brother is also bisexual. All of our half brothers are straight. Some studies show that 52% of gay identical twins have the other twin gay as well.

[Guest Anonymous]

I can see a good reason for Christians to "convert" to homosexuality: Christians have Pat Robertson, Kirk Cameron and Lisa Whelchel, gays have Ellen DeGeneres, Rachel Maddow and Neal Patrick Harris.

Billy Joel was right: The sinners are much more fun!

[MarsGirl]

People who worry about gay people hitting on them amuse me... First, I'm like, "What makes you think you're so hot?" But also, who cares if a gay person hits on you. How is that different from some person of the opposite sex you're not attracted to hitting on you? It's awkward, sure. But, geesh, nothing earth-shattering. The polite response to someone who you're not interested in after they've hit on you is, "Thank you, but I'm not interested." And move on.

I think it's mostly insecure men that get all panicky about that shit. I've never heard a girl worry about being hit on by a lesbian....

[ElphabaGalinda]

I has the sadz. :( All these people know thousands of people who were converted to homosexuality by gays and lesbians. I have never been propositioned by a lesbian once. Not. Even. Once. Am I too, not a woman? Am I really that ugly that the other team won't even consider me a bench warmer? *Sobs*

I would totally try to convert you! :D Only I've never converted anyone before, so I don't know how it's done...must mean I'm a bad lesbian

[ElphabaGalinda]

Hey, I will hit on you. :lol:

Once a long time ago I had a short conversation with a girl I worked with. She was freaking out about finding out some girl was gay. "oh my god - what if she starts hitting on me" - Of course my initial thought was "bitch, please" but I waited a minute and then I asked her if she thought Alan Rickman was hot. Initially she did not know who he was. After she figured it out she was totally aghast that I would even ask that, but not really getting what I was hinting at. I told her that she might think she is really super awesome, but not all lesbians are attracted to women just because they are women.

Times I've recruited? Never.

Must work on that.

Something I don't get about that...she just found out that girl was gay...but that girl has ALWAYS been gay, and nothing will change just because she knows now. If that girl wasn't hitting on her before, she's not going to start. Your strategy is totally awesome too.

[StacyW]

California just banned gay therapy for minors, so there's one victory against ignorance.

[snarkbillie]

I don't know if it's genetic or not and I don't really care. My friends who are homosexual shouldn't be discriminated against for any reason. People are gay. It doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter how it makes you "feel". It doesn't matter. Homosexuals are human beings and deserve to be treated equally.

[linnea27]

I don't know if it's genetic or not and I don't really care. My friends who are homosexual shouldn't be discriminated against for any reason. People are gay. It doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter how it makes you "feel". It doesn't matter. Homosexuals are human beings and deserve to be treated equally.

I agree with this. I always stay out of the "is it genetic?" arguments. It always seems that people want to prove that homosexuality is genetic like that will make homophobes accept them. I don't think that's true; we have racists and sexists even though we know race and sex and genetic.

I mean, I think homosexuality probably is genetic, but more than that, I think it doesn't matter. Even if homosexuality were a choice, I think who we marry should be a choice people have the right to make.