The Great Chick-fil-A Snake Oil "Faith" Hustle

[Sola]

I never said it was okay. I said within the context of what was going at that time that is why. I don't agree with it. I don't understand eveything about the bible. I never said I did, but the killing of infants in context of war as horrible as it was isn't the same thing as god saying that infants aren't people and thus it isn't murder when you kill them.

OK, I'll be specific. Are you OK with the above killings? Are you OK with the above specified killings, the killing of the Amalekite infants?

[She Who Laughs]

She Who Laughs has been around for awhile. Talking about hitting her kids and how patriarchy in churches is all good. I think she is just a fundie, but a more liberal one since she is okay with gay marriage.

A short while back someone posted a list of things that indicated if you were a fundie. Since every time I try to do a search it never finds what I search for I don't think I'll waste my time trying to find the post. But I do remember out of everything on the list I don't think I fit any of them. So, you decide, am I a fundie?

I wear pants and seldom wear a skirt (like once in the past five years). I dress modestly mostly because I can't stand it when I see men ogling women who are showing half their boobs. I'm just also uncomfortable showing cleavage or wearing shorts that are what I consider to be too short. My husband and I both work outside the home. He does the majority of the housework because I work more hours than he does. I take care of the finances because I he's so unorganized I would worry about bills not getting paid if he did it. We listen to many different types of music, although there are some types of music that we don't listen to because it seems more like loud crazy noise and not musical in any way. We watch TV (and have satellite) and our favorite shows are Breaking Bad and The Walking Dead (definitely not fundie approved). We have no problems going to R rated movies, although since we have a 55 inch high-def TV we tend to wait until they are released on DVD and then watch them at home. I believe the next movie we will see in the theatre will probably be The Hobbit when it is released in December. We used to dance in our younger days and although we don't go to bars, we will have a drink at a restaurant that has a bar and my husband buys wine or beer once in a while, but not regularly. We used to go to church every week but since my mother had a stroke two years ago we tend to travel to see her on Sundays now. When she passes away (she's 90) we will most likely go back to attending church regularly.

Our church really doesn't teach much about husbands and wives and the whole submission thing. Mostly any sermons about marriage focuses on both people in the relationship loving and respecting the other. I've never heard a sermon in this church about whether spanking is right or wrong, that is just something that is left for each family to decide. There could be people in our church who would be ok with women being pastors, but to do so would mean the church having to vote to leave the denomination and I don't see that happening anytime soon. There just aren't enough people who really want that to happen for it to pass a congregational vote. And even the couple of women I know who would like to see women become pastors haven't been willing to leave the church over it or fight to change it.

Our children attended some private school, but mostly public school. I never homeschooled. I think some people do a great job at homeschooling, but too many fail miserably at it. All of our kids went to college, our oldest is working on his masters and should be done next year. Did I miss anything? Do I sound like a typical fundie to you?

[wtfrenchtoast]

For what it's worth, I don't think you sound like a "typical fundie". That doesn't mean your beliefs are more valid or right though. Apparently you think hitting children is an acceptable form of discipline, so I pose the same question to you that I did to scary girl. What would you do if an authority figure, such as a cop or your boss, decided to spank you to teach you a lesson?

[dairyfreelife]

I am not a bigot. I believe slavery, rape, and bashing out a baby's brain is wrong. But yet we're allowed to have abortions that sucks out little bains brains, and that's perfectly okay. :roll:

The level of hypocrocy never ceases to amaze me. Please how the two are not one in the same and get back to me.

My believing that gay marriage is wrong nowhere near on the level of condoning slavery, rape, and bashing out little babies brains. One can be chosen, the other not so much.

I never said slavery was okay, I simply posted some historical context of that time.

Speaking of hypocricy. Someone else posted that it was okay to read a book about the history of beastility and it wasn't advocating, but yet I post an article about how slavery was viewed back in that particular time and I am somehow advocating it. Typical.... :roll:

One, look up how abortions work. This has been done to death here and answered over and over again. Abortions are almost always done in the first trimester. Occasionally they are done in the second and rarely in the third. Often second and third trimester abortions are done because there's a serious problem. Hardly anyone is going to get to 20 weeks (or later) and decide they just don't want to be pregnant anymore. In the first trimester the fetus is not viable. It requires someone else to give it the chance to become a human and as a result it's like a parasite on the host. It's up to the hostess whether they wish to allow the parasite to grow into a person or rid it from their body.

Note: I don't take the arguing against abortion lightly right now. All I will say is that the option of abortion and choosing to not and carry to term body and fetus willing can make all the difference. When you can choose, it makes the decision to keep more real and more desired because I made the decision and now I'm going to do what I can to be healthy and grow the fetus into a hopefully healthy human. I'm going to do what I can to give that human whatever it needs once it exits my body to the best of my ability. It makes the decision so much more worthwhile. That's why women should have the choice. That's why there's the option.

Have you ever experienced being pregnant scarygirl? Do you know what it feels like, especially early on? It fucks with your body, your hormones, and it makes you feel like shit. You are starving and craving (sometimes weird cravings like wrapping french fries over marshmallows) and feel sick and so tired you can barely get up in the morning. Your stomach cramps and your back aches and you feel a little dizzy too. You get pissed over nothing and cry at the drop of it and you feel like you've lost your mind. It's as if some virus has invaded your body and being willing to deal with all that and the other symptoms that will show up with time and going through labor is important because it's me, it's the woman who has to give up her body to allow the fetus to grow. She needs to be a willing participant in the process since it involves her.

[Koala]

For what it's worth, I don't think you sound like a "typical fundie". That doesn't mean your beliefs are more valid or right though. Apparently you think hitting children is an acceptable form of discipline, so I pose the same question to you that I did to scary girl. What would you do if an authority figure, such as a cop or your boss, decided to spank you to teach you a lesson?

If she actually responds to this I am going to dig up the thread where she talked about all of the outrageous things she said before when she justified hitting children.

[She Who Laughs]

For what it's worth, I don't think you sound like a "typical fundie". That doesn't mean your beliefs are more valid or right though. Apparently you think hitting children is an acceptable form of discipline, so I pose the same question to you that I did to scary girl. What would you do if an authority figure, such as a cop or your boss, decided to spank you to teach you a lesson?

As adults we are responsible for our actions in different ways. If I screw up at work I might get fired or suspended. If I break the law I will pay a fine or go to jail. It's just stupid to think that we would discipline adults in the same manner as we discipline children. And for the person who said that spanking causes children to fear their parents, I don't believe that is the case for all situations. I was spanked, but don't ever remember being fearful of my parents because of being spanked. And it's not like the spankings were an every day occurrence (at least in my home they were fe and far between). I was actually more fearful of my dad when he would yell or lecture me about something. I would have preferred a spanking just to have it over and done with. I'm not going to get into the whole spanking debate again, it's been done, and redone, and redone. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine and there's no point in rehashing it over and over.

[She Who Laughs]

If she actually responds to this I am going to dig up the thread where she talked about all of the outrageous things she said before when she justified hitting children.

I'm not going to get into the whole spanking debate again, it's been done, and redone, and redone. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine and there's no point in rehashing it over and over.

[Koala]

Do I sound like a typical fundie to you?

I am a very conservative Christian and I like it when I see Bible verses on products.

[wtfrenchtoast]

As adults we are responsible for our actions in different ways. If I screw up at work I might get fired or suspended. If I break the law I will pay a fine or go to jail. It's just stupid to think that we would discipline adults in the same manner as we discipline children. And for the person who said that spanking causes children to fear their parents, I don't believe that is the case for all situations. I was spanked, but don't ever remember being fearful of my parents because of being spanked. And it's not like the spankings were an every day occurrence (at least in my home they were fe and far between). I was actually more fearful of my dad when he would yell or lecture me about something. I would have preferred a spanking just to have it over and done with. I'm not going to get into the whole spanking debate again, it's been done, and redone, and redone. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine and there's no point in rehashing it over and over.

So basically, if you mess up, the consequences or punishment is relevant to your mistake. You mess up at work, you are removed from the job. You break the law, you are removed from society or pay a debt to society. If a child messes up, his punishment is physical pain. Sweet. I know you said you're done with the debate, but this does not make any sense. You advocate consequences relevant to the mistake for children, but not adults.

[She Who Laughs]

I am conservative and I do like to see Bible verses on products. I'm fine with secular quotes on products also. Your point is?

[Alana Rickman]

Whoa. Way to generalize there, scarygirl.

Loving God (who I happen to think is an imaginary character, but accept others' rights to worship) does not magically make someone nicer.

Exhibit A: http://imgur.com/pCrHU

[scarygirl]

OK, I'll be specific. Are you OK with the above killings? Are you OK with the above specified killings, the killing of the Amalekite infants?

It doesn't matter what I tell you. You have your mind made up, and that is absolutely great. I will tell you it is wrong to judge the Bible by a couple verses versus reading and examining the book as a whole. It is kind of like people who take a paragraph out of book and if it has one iota of anything the least bit scandalous or shocking to their thought process they want it banned rather than judging the book on its whole merits.

Yes, there was an awful lot of killings in the bible. But there is also an awful lot of love and forgiveness for those that seek him.

[Anxious Girl]

*yawn* so, does anybody know a list of good fast-food restaraunts that support LGBT people and their supporters? I'm getting tired of these 2 hypocrites.

[Guest Anonymous]

It doesn't matter what I tell you. You have your mind made up, and that is absolutely great. I will tell you it is wrong to judge the Bible by a couple verses versus reading and examining the book as a whole. It is kind of like people who take a paragraph out of book and if it has one iota of anything the least bit scandalous or shocking to their thought process they want it banned rather than judging the book on its whole merits.

Yes, there was an awful lot of killings in the bible. But there is also an awful lot of love and forgiveness for those that seek him.

In other words: MY COMPLETE AND TOTAL LACK OF SELF AWARENESS LET ME SHOW YOU IT.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Are you going to answer my spanking question, scary girl? I just want to know if I should waste my time expecting an answer or not.

[Koala]

I'm not going to get into the whole spanking debate again, it's been done, and redone, and redone. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine and there's no point in rehashing it over and over.

Yeah, that debate was a mess for you wasn't it. For those who missed it:

She Who Laughs wrote:

I love how anti-spankers call it hitting, they like to do that to make it sound violent and "disgusting."

She Who Laughs wrote:

I hit my children with my open hand on their buttocks.

She Who Laughs wrote:

Then I don't consider the spanking kind of hitting to be wrong.

She Who Laughs wrote:

I don't remember ever equating spanking with hitting

She Who Laughs wrote:

I'm actually suprised that you think kids aren't smart enough to know the difference.

She Who Laughs wrote:

I made my decision to spank more than 30 years ago. I no longer have the books or even remember their specific titles. At the time I gleaned information from some Pastors, some speakers with child development backgrounds, our family doctor, some friends I respected, some older and wiser type people in our church who had successfully raised their families. Not all information has to come from peer reviewed studies to be worthwhile.

She Who Laughs wrote:

And I doubt there's anyone on this board or any study that someone could show me that would convince me otherwise.

She Who Laughs wrote:

I started disciplining my children from the moment I had them.

She Who Laughs wrote:

My kids have come to me and told me they appreciated the parenting they received, including the spankings and that is why they have chosen to also spank and I support them 100%.

She Who Laughs wrote:

But for my children who have also chosen to spank, I will follow their wishes when it comes to any times when I might have to discipline their children when they are with me without their parents.

She Who Laughs wrote:

if the time came where I was watching their kids for them than I would use the method they chose for discipline in my house as well.

She Who Laughs wrote:

I knew a lot of kids personally who thought about doing some wild and crazy thing at school and then changed their minds from fear of the paddle.

She Who Laughs wrote:

If it's legal, if the schools practice it, if the parents give consent for their child to be paddled, then yes, it is ok.

She Who Laughs wrote:

Personally, I would not hit a child with a wooden board. But I would not tell other parents (or schools) that they can't or shouldn't.

She Who Laughs wrote:

I most likely wouldn't have spanked an older teen, not because I see it as wrong, but because I don't think it would have been as effective as other methods at that age.

She Who Laughs wrote:

I NEVER said that I thought spanking an older teen was wrong

She Who Laughs wrote:

If I heard my neighbor was spanking a 19 year old teen, I might pull that teen aside when I had the chance and ask if they felt safe or if they needed help.

[Sola]

OK, I'll be specific. Are you OK with the above killings? Are you OK with the above specified killings, the killing of the Amalekite infants?

It doesn't matter what I tell you. You have your mind made up, and that is absolutely great. I will tell you it is wrong to judge the Bible by a couple verses versus reading and examining the book as a whole. It is kind of like people who take a paragraph out of book and if it has one iota of anything the least bit scandalous or shocking to their thought process they want it banned rather than judging the book on its whole merits.

Yes, there was an awful lot of killings in the bible. But there is also an awful lot of love and forgiveness for those that seek him.

First of all, please do not tell me my own mind. I have not made my mind up, if I had then I would not have asked you.

Second, I have read the whole bible. Many times. Those killings I mentioned above are not taken out of context at all. 'God' thought it fine that Amalekite infants should die because the Amalekite tribe were in rebellion. So please tell me whether or not those particular killings, in that particular circumstance, is OK with you.

Yes, I agree there is love and forgiveness in the Bible. However I ask you to think about this; if there were a book which contained ONE chapter which advocated sexual intercourse with girls under the age of say 8, but the other fifty chapters were all about how one should feed the poor, heal the sick and clothe the naked, would you be OK with that book? Would that ONE chapter advocating sexual intercourse with pre-pubescent girls negate any good in that book? Think about it, then give me your answer.

[Witsec7]

*yawn* so, does anybody know a list of good fast-food restaraunts that support LGBT people and their supporters? I'm getting tired of these 2 hypocrites.

In Boregonia, behind the green curtain and under the rainbow flag of gayland we have Burgerville. Local products, grass fed beef, sustainable business practices, benefits for employees and financial donations to a variety of Quiltbag causes. If I want fast food, I'll drive ten miles to the closest one. None of it tastes like fast food, which is a challenge to lots of folks with a craving for fats and salt.

[Koala]

I am conservative and I do like to see Bible verses on products. I'm fine with secular quotes on products also. Your point is?

That the line between "conservative Christian" and "typical fundie" is thin enough to be transparent.

[Koala]

As adults we are responsible for our actions in different ways.

She Who Laughs wrote:

I NEVER said that I thought spanking an older teen was wrong

When does it become wrong to hit a person? At what age should they be responsible for their actions in "different ways"?

[Maggie Mae]

It doesn't matter what I tell you. You have your mind made up, and that is absolutely great. I will tell you it is wrong to judge the Bible by a couple verses versus reading and examining the book as a whole. It is kind of like people who take a paragraph out of book and if it has one iota of anything the least bit scandalous or shocking to their thought process they want it banned rather than judging the book on its whole merits.

Yes, there was an awful lot of killings in the bible. But there is also an awful lot of love and forgiveness for those that seek him.

Thank you for that information, however, the question was "Are you OK with the above specified killings, the killing of the Amalekite infants?"

[Koala]

Yes, there was an awful lot of killings in the bible.

And they're god ordained of all things! What did you think about the story from Numbers?

File Under: I love when fundies come to FJ for a Bible lesson.

[BoomerLynn]

To love god you have to love other people, even people you don't agree with . I don't agee with everyone, I think a lot of behavior is wrong, but I still love them.

A person that doesn't love god goes out of their way to put people down, to make fun of their intellect or their person.

I have been cruel to no one. i just don't believe in gay marriage.

Bullshit. I identify as a Christian. I have a good friend who happens to be an atheist, as is her father. Our families have been friends since before either of us were born. They are two of the most kind, caring, people I have ever met. Her father has helped my husband and I on numerous occasions. She is nice to everyone she meets, no matter their race, faith (or lack of faith), economic status, etc. She is also a very talented artist. We had a mutual friend pass away and she has offered her services (she does make-up, makes costumes, paints murals, and decorates cakes) at a couple of fundraisers that were organised in order to raise funds to make sure our friend's infant daughter will be taken care of. She does not believe in a god much less love one, yet she is more caring than most Christians I know. She certainly does not go out of her way to put people down.

[She Who Laughs]

Yeah, that debate was a mess for you wasn't it. For those who missed it:

Blah, blah, blah.

[Sprocket]

Yeah, that debate was a mess for you wasn't it. For those who missed it:

Tha Fuq? :evil:

/puts on Child Development hat and shoves my BS in Child &Family Development under your nose.

I pity the children who have found themselves under your care. Hitting any person, regardless of age is wrong. It's 1000x worse when that human being who has been entrusted to your care finds themselves unable to defend themselves from your abuse. Yes, I said abuse. Want to know what children learn from "spanking"? They learn to violence and to not use their words. They also don't learn the valuable lesson of natural consequences. My two year old has a fantastic vocabulary but his little emotions get the better of him sometimes when his little brother does something that he doesn't like. He hit his brother maybe twice and he was informed in very short order that he was to use his words and that hitting hurts. Now, when his little brother does something that he doesn't like he tells him "that makes me mad!" and will go off to his room to "be mad in my room!" When his brother gets mad at him (he's barely one) my two year old tells him, "mad is vawid (valid) emotion. You can be mad, [name]." Communication is the key to raising children, not using your hand to inflict pain on them.

/Takes off professional hat

Fucking dumbass twat.