The Great Chick-fil-A Snake Oil "Faith" Hustle

[Anxious Girl]

Shhh. You'll jinx it.

I'm having a cupcake to celebrate the silence anyway, though.

Must. Have. The. Deliciousness! * drools *

[Naga Viper]

Must. Have. The. Deliciousness! * drools *

It's still a work in progress—I'm rusty on the spun sugar process, and presentation was never my strong suit. Flavor's good, though. I'm sure it's the powdered fetus sprinkles.

[samurai_sarah]

It's still a work in progress—I'm rusty on the spun sugar process, and presentation was never my strong suit. Flavor's good, though. I'm sure it's the powdered fetus sprinkles.

You have defrauded me with your spun sugar, and powdered fetus sprinkles. What, and whom must I sacrifice to, to obtain this marvellous idol?

[thoughtful]

I am not asking you to accept my opinions, but it is very clear you don't believe in a free society.

OK, I have a new question. How can you say that? How are you defining a free society?

Nobody here has advocated putting you in jail for your opinions. Nobody has even deleted your posts. You are free to live your life, have your beliefs, post what you want.

I can't imagine a group of people more devoted to a free society than the regular posters here. We tend to be the epitome of "live and let live."

edited to fix quotes

[Koala]

Yay! She finally flounced!

Wouldn't it be a gift if they both flounced at once?

[She Who Laughs]

Sorry, haven't flounced. Hate to burst your bubble.

And for those who have claimed that they aren't trying to change people's minds about things, then why do you constantly try to change my beliefs about spanking when I've already said that I don't think spanking is bad? Why can't you just accept the fact that some people feel it is fine used in moderation and done properly? Even my granddaughter's pediatrician agrees and he's an atheist (so you can't blame it on him being a fundie).

[wtfrenchtoast]

Sorry, haven't flounced. Hate to burst your bubble.

And for those who have claimed that they aren't trying to change people's minds about things, then why do you constantly try to change my beliefs about spanking when I've already said that I don't think spanking is bad? Why can't you just accept the fact that some people feel it is fine used in moderation and done properly? Even my granddaughter's pediatrician agrees and he's an atheist (so you can't blame it on him being a fundie).

Like I told scary girl, I know I can't change your mind. I'm not stupid. What I'm trying to do is get you to take an honest look at your beliefs and the rationale. If you can't say why you think hitting adults is wrong but kids is okay, I think that's cognitive dissonance that needs to be pointed out.

[She Who Laughs]

Like I told scary girl, I know I can't change your mind. I'm not stupid. What I'm trying to do is get you to take an honest look at your beliefs and the rationale. If you can't say why you think hitting adults is wrong but kids is okay, I think that's cognitive dissonance that needs to be pointed out.

Already answered, you just evidently didn't like the answer. Adults are disciplined in different ways. We don't put adults in time outs or force them to go to bed at a certain time of the night either, we basically let adults make those decisions for themselves. So since we don't do those things to adults, should we just let kids run wild and make all their own decisions? I'm all for using the least aggressive method of discipline as possible, whenever possible, but my experience has shown that in some circumstances spanking is the most effective.

[Witsec7]

In an attempt to assist SWL, here's a quick definition that may aid you in reasonable discourse.

Cognitive dissonance is a discomfort caused by holding conflicting cognitions (e.g., ideas, beliefs, values, emotional reactions) simultaneously. In a state of dissonance, people may feel surprise, dread, guilt, anger, or embarrassment.[1] The theory of cognitive dissonance in social psychology proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by altering existing cognitions, adding new ones to create a consistent belief system, or alternatively by reducing the importance of any one of the dissonant elements.[1] An example of this would be the conflict between wanting to smoke and knowing that smoking is unhealthy; a person may try to change their feelings about the odds that they will actually suffer the consequences, or they might add the consonant element that the smoking is worth short term benefits. A general view of cognitive dissonance is when one is biased towards a certain decision even though other factors favour an alternative.[2]

From Wiki.

[Koala]

Why can't you just accept the fact that some people feel it is fine used in moderation and done properly? Even my granddaughter's pediatrician agrees and he's an atheist (so you can't blame it on him being a fundie).

Because hitting children in moderation is not okay. Because there is no way to "properly" hit a child. Because everytime you raise your hand to her that little girl feels pain, and the way she sees herself is forever changed. The message you are sending her is that you have the right to hit her and that she deserves it. If your granddaughter's pediatrician agrees with you and her parents hitting her that's a shame. You need a new pediatrician because he is going against peer reviewed studies and the American Academy of Pediatrics. Want to know the truth though? I don't believe you. I really just don't believe you all waltzed into the doctors office and checked to see if hitting a child was okay.

Now, what about your statement that your family is non-violent? I have quoted you citing at least 3 generations of people in your family who hit children.

I would also like to know what the divorce rate in your family has to do with the fact that you all hit small children. Do you believe that hitting children helps prevent divorce later in life?

[Koala]

Already answered, you just evidently didn't like the answer. Adults are disciplined in different ways. We don't put adults in time outs or force them to go to bed at a certain time of the night either, we basically let adults make those decisions for themselves. So since we don't do those things to adults, should we just let kids run wild and make all their own decisions? I'm all for using the least aggressive method of discipline as possible, whenever possible, but my experience has shown that in some circumstances spanking is the most effective.

Hitting is never effective. Studies have proven that. I don't give a damn about your opinion. Your right to do whatever the hell you want should not trump that little girls right to NOT have the adults in her life inflict physical pain on her. Stop hitting little kids.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Already answered, you just evidently didn't like the answer. Adults are disciplined in different ways. We don't put adults in time outs or force them to go to bed at a certain time of the night either, we basically let adults make those decisions for themselves. So since we don't do those things to adults, should we just let kids run wild and make all their own decisions? I'm all for using the least aggressive method of discipline as possible, whenever possible, but my experience has shown that in some circumstances spanking is the most effective.

No, I don't like the answer, because it's disingenuous. We put kids in time out because they don't know enough to recognize when they need to be removed from a situation. Adults usually do. For example, my boss was having an argument with a coworker the other day, and as it escalated, she recognized that she needed to remove herself from the situation. She put herself in "time out" if you will. Parents set bed times because they know kids need rest. Adults generally go to bed at a reasonable hour because they know the amount of rest they need to function well. A parent spanks a child to....prepare him for being beaten by authority figures as he grows older? No, that's not right.

Again, I ask you, if an adult, say 18 years old, is immature and irresponsible, do they deserve a spanking?

[She Who Laughs]

No, I don't like the answer, because it's disingenuous. We put kids in time out because they don't know enough to recognize when they need to be removed from a situation. Adults usually do. For example, my boss was having an argument with a coworker the other day, and as it escalated, she recognized that she needed to remove herself from the situation. She put herself in "time out" if you will. Parents set bed times because they know kids need rest. Adults generally go to bed at a reasonable hour because they know the amount of rest they need to function well. A parent spanks a child to....prepare him for being beaten by authority figures as he grows older? No, that's not right.

Again, I ask you, if an adult, say 18 years old, is immature and irresponsible, do they deserve a spanking?

No, because other methods are more effective for older kids. And as I said, I always opted for the most effective method in the circumstance. Most often that was something besides spanking. But there were situations where those other methods just didn't work and spanking did. If my kids were spanked half a dozen times in their whole childhood I'd be surprised. Spankings were few and far between, but effective when necessary.

[wtfrenchtoast]

But if maturity is the deciding factor, why not spank immature older children or teenagers?

[Witsec7]

Spankings were few and far between, but effective when necessary.

I've never found it necessary to hit a child.

[She Who Laughs]

I've never found it necessary to hit a child.

Good for you.

[Witsec7]

Good for you.

I'm attempting to understand what kind of behavior makes it necessary for an adult to strike a child. It's pretty evident you are not about to be forthcoming with a response.

[She Who Laughs]

But if maturity is the deciding factor, why not spank immature older children or teenagers?

Every child is different. I found spanking to be most effective for children between 3 and 6 and other methods more effective for the older kids. This is not a carved-in stone age because all of my kids were a little different and some were more compliant than others. So, to answer some ridiculous question that is sure to follow... I did not start spanking on their third birthday and end on the 6th birthday. Those are rough estimates for what worked in our family.

[Witsec7]

Every child is different. I found spanking to be most effective for children between 3 and 6 and other methods more effective for the older kids. This is not a carved-in stone age because all of my kids were a little different and some were more compliant than others. So, to answer some ridiculous question that is sure to follow... I did not start spanking on their third birthday and end on the 6th birthday. Those are rough estimates for what worked in our family.

What kind of behavior makes it necessary for an adult to hit a child?

[Koala]

She's not going to answer any of these questions. That would force her to admit that hitting her grandchild is wrong and she doesn't want to do that. I will say this though. I hope the next time she goes to hit that precious little girl, the things we have said run through her mind. I hope she looks at that child and asks herself, "does this child really deserve to have a grown adult hitting her?" And if she goes through with it I hope she is haunted by the look on the child's face, the tears in her eyes, and her cries of pain.

People who hit children make me sick. If I seem passionate about this it's because I was hit as a child by many of the adults in my life. They thought they were "doing the right thing" but they weren't and they forever changed who I am and the way I see myself. To this day only 1 of them has realized how much I was scarred by being hit, and even she doesn't realize the full extent. I am unable to stand physical touch from other people. My husband is the only adult I am comfortable having touch me and even he isn't able to run his fingers through my hair or touch me just to be touching me. It makes me cringe. He's never done anything to deserve that, but I can't help myself. I need lots of space to feel comfortable.

You (SheWhoHitsKids) are probably comforting yourself with the thought that your granddaughter won't turn out like me, because surely to be this damaged I was "abused". From a legal standpoint you are dead wrong. Nothing they did to me would have landed them in jail. In their minds they were doing it "properly". In the eyes of the law they were doing it "properly". But you know what? It hurt me in ways that can never be fixed. You know what else? I have never talked about it this openly. Want to know why I just did? Because your granddaughter and any kids Scarygirl might have are worth it. They can't speak up for themselves, but I can. I can warn you about the dangers of hitting children. I can tell you that you will change who she is. I just hope that when she has children of her own, she breaks the cycle instead of continuing it.

[She Who Laughs]

I'm attempting to understand what kind of behavior makes it necessary for an adult to strike a child. It's pretty evident you are not about to be forthcoming with a response.

Once again, already answered. Other methods failed to work in certain circumstances and the situation called for discipline that would work. The spanking worked, that particular behavior never happened again. One of my children received just one spanking in her entire life, but she was very compliant, and learned quickly.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Why is it a crime to hit an adult? Even a fairly tame slap is enough to sue for assault. Why is that?

[Witsec7]

Once again, already answered. Other methods failed to work in certain circumstances and the situation called for discipline that would work. The spanking worked, that particular behavior never happened again. One of my children received just one spanking in her entire life, but she was very compliant, and learned quickly.

What kind of circumstances make it necessary for an adult to hit a child. What was the reason for you to spank that one child? What behaviors are so egregious that you would lift a hand to hit a child?

[wtfrenchtoast]

Once again, already answered. Other methods failed to work in certain circumstances and the situation called for discipline that would work. The spanking worked, that particular behavior never happened again. One of my children received just one spanking in her entire life, but she was very compliant, and learned quickly.

If my boyfriend smacks me for burning dinner one night, that would probably deter me from burning food again. Does that make it right for him to hit me?

[She Who Laughs]

She's not going to answer any of these questions. That would force her to admit that hitting her grandchild is wrong and she doesn't want to do that. I will say this though. I hope the next time she goes to hit that precious little girl, the things we have said run through her mind. I hope she looks at that child and asks herself, "does this child really deserve to have a grown adult hitting her?" And if she goes through with it I hope she is haunted by the look on the child's face, the tears in her eyes, and her cries of pain.

People who hit children make me sick. If I seem passionate about this it's because I was hit as a child by many of the adults in my life. They thought they were "doing the right thing" but they weren't and they forever changed who I am and the way I see myself. To this day only 1 of them has realized how much I was scarred by being hit, and even she doesn't realize the full extent. I am unable to stand physical touch from other people. My husband is the only adult I am comfortable having touch me and even he isn't able to run his fingers through my hair or touch me just to be touching me. It makes me cringe. He's never done anything to deserve that, but I can't help myself. I need lots of space to feel comfortable.

You (SheWhoHitsKids) are probably comforting yourself with the thought that your granddaughter won't turn out like me, because surely to be this damaged I was "abused". From a legal standpoint you are dead wrong. Nothing they did to me would have landed them in jail. In their minds they were doing it "properly". In the eyes of the law they were doing it "properly". But you know what? It hurt me in ways that can never be fixed. You know what else? I have never talked about it this openly. Want to know why I just did? Because your granddaughter and any kids Scarygirl might have are worth it. They can't speak up for themselves, but I can. I can warn you about the dangers of hitting children. I can tell you that you will change who she is. I just hope that when she has children of her own, she breaks the cycle instead of continuing it.

I guess you missed the old thread where I stated that I haven't spanked my granddaughter yet because she is too young, in my opinion. And whether or not I spank will largely be determined by whether my son and daughter-in-law decide they will spank. They haven't made that decision yet, but when they do, I will respect their wishes for matters of discipline. And I will always choose the least harsh method that works in the situation.