How to spiritually manipulate young people-Gothard Style!

[xReems]

recoveringgrace.org/2012/07/how-to-spiritually-manipulate-young-people-in-six-easy-steps/

 

Apparently, if you enjoy reading a novel, that's bad because it steers you away from loving God. That's how Gothard gets those girls on Journey to the Heart to feel bad about themselves and make them see how "sinful" they are, when they're really not. These poor girls are so vulnerable that a simple questionnaire, like the one posted, could break any of them down.

 

According to Gothard, any simple pleasure in life that doesn't involve God, makes you an awful and selfish person.

[2xx1xy1JD]

recoveringgrace.org/2012/07/how-to-spiritually-manipulate-young-people-in-six-easy-steps/

Apparently, if you enjoy reading a novel, that's bad because it steers you away from loving God. That's how Gothard gets those girls on Journey to the Heart to feel bad about themselves and make them see how "sinful" they are, when they're really not. These poor girls are so vulnerable that a simple questionnaire, like the one posted, could break any of them down.

According to Gothard, any simple pleasure in life that doesn't involve God, makes you an awful and selfish person.

Yikes! Talking with friends or (gasp!) doing something nice for them, instead of being a hermit, is bad in their world?

[Kitten]

The all-wise God, however, determines whether you love Him, using specific criteria to measure your love.

And of course, the only person who knows what those criteria are is Gothard.

I feel so bad for all the children who are inculcated with this narrow, mean-spirited, soul-destroying view of life. How horrid to have to live your life essentially hating/punishing yourself for every normal human emotion and inclination. Words are impotent to describe my disgust.

:angry-cussing: :angry-screaming: :angry-fire: :angry-teeth:

[Just_Jane]

I do everything on that competing side of things. I only get one mark on the God side of things for conversing with God. I believe that there may be something bigger out there and I do pray or converse with whatever it might be.

I feel sorry for anyone who believes all that. I'd think God would want us to be well rounded people who interact with others. Jesus seemed to get out and converse with all kinds of people.

[Prek teach]

I was over on the Staddon website and Esther, the daughter, is currently working at IBLP headquarters. She put up a post about the happy moments of her week, and one thing she posted was:

•Watching a young lady muster the courage to call home and openly share with her parents what she had done!

This was very WTF? for me. First of all since a young lady had to "muster the courage" to call home, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume she did something ebil like talk to a boy. Secondly, why does this make Esther Staddon happy?

[Visionoyahweh]

Looking at lustful pictures or Adiring God's living Epistles? Talk about not explaining to young people how to handle their sexuality. I also like how you're supposed to talk to God instead of your friends. If they don't want kids to have friends then why do they obsess over looking 'right' and smiling all the time?

Poor Joy, being 13 and having to sit through this crap. Brainwashing, pure and simple.

When Gothard finally kicks off, I hope he leaves it in his will that his religon was all one big money-making joke, and everyone can go back to their normal lives now. His last words should be "The Aristocrats!".

[DistantStar]

So one's love for God can be measured by a single number. [spock eyebrow]Fascinating.[/sE]

That is quite the tool for inducing needless guilt. Gothard obviously is not fucking around.

[Deleted07]

I actually found the paperwork they give to the girls on these Journey to the Heart things, and yeah it makes you examine everything about yourself and basically absolutely sets yourself up for failure and guilt! And THATS how they get you!

Let me see if I can find it again!

[bionicmlle]

God, even the first paragraph is creepy. I have "Stalkers" on TV right now and it sure as hell sounds like their god is a jealous stalker. Dangerous combo!

Yuck.

[Deleted07]

Here we go, a basic rundown on the Topics and Activites that happen on a Journey to the Heart trip:

Topics & Activities

Fellowship

Get Acquainted With Your Journey Companions

Seeking God

Search Our Six Wrong Heart Conditions

Do I Have a Murmuring Heart?

Do I Have a Fearful Heart?

Do I Have an Adulterous Heart?

Do I Have a Deceitful Heart?

Do I Have an Uncircumcised Heart?

Do I Have a Prideful Heart?

Twelve Attitudes of a Good Heart

A Clean Heart vs. A Wicked Heart

A Pure Heart vs. A Double Heart

A Wise and Understanding Heart vs. A Foolish Heart

A Broken Heart vs. A Hard Heart

A Tender Heart vs. A Bitter Heart

A Meek Heart vs. A Proud Heart

A Circumcised Heart vs. A Deceitful Heart

A Large Heart vs. A Lean Heart

A Faithful Heart vs. An Unbelieving Heart

A Perfect Heart vs. A Whorish Heart

A Sound and Upright Heart vs. A Deceived Heart

A Merry Heart vs. A Discouraged Heart

Delighting in the Lord

Ask God to Open Spiritual Eyes.

Enjoy a Jewel From God’s Word.

A Search for Wisdom in Proverbs.

Turn Scripture into your Prayer.

Identify Your Most Pressing Issue.

Outline History’s Greatest Sermon.

Share exhortations.

Get Alone for a Personal Study.

Learn How to Delight in God’s Word.

Delight in Scripture More Than in Food.

Learn the Rewards of Waiting on God.

Enjoy the Sweetness of Silence.

An Hour of Prayer

Knowing God By His Names

[bionicmlle]

Perfect vs. Whorish? Wow. Everyone is in trouble if those are the choices...

[salsa]

So one's love for God can be measured by a single number. [spock eyebrow]Fascinating.[/sE]

That is quite the tool for inducing needless guilt. Gothard obviously is not fucking around.

... and considering the sin of pridefulness, is getting a good score an automatic damnation?

[JMarie]

Is a murmuring heart the same thing as a heart murmur??

[Deleted07]

Found some information on a Murdmuring Heart or Spirit; http://www.monergism.com/contentment05.html

The evil of a murmuring spirit. There is more evil in it than you are aware of.

Murmuring argues much corruption, and strong corruption... A murmuring heart is a rebellious heart.

When discontent comes, it grows to murmuring, and you can go into no house almost, but there is murmuring when men are discontented, so that within a little while it breaks forth into sedition or rebellion. Murmuring is but as the smoke of the fire: there is first a smoke and smouldering before the flame breaks forth; and so before open rebellion in a kingdom there is first a smoke of murmuring, and then it breaks forth into open rebellion. But because it has the seeds of rebellion, it is accounted before the Lord to be rebellion. Will you be a rebel against God? When you feel your heart discontented and murmuring against the dispensation of God towards you, you should check it thus: Oh, you wretched heart! What, will you be a rebel against God? Will you rise in rebellion against the infinite God? Yet you have done so. Charge your heart with this sin of rebellion.

Basically that twinge that you get when you think the shit your parents and Gothard are shoving down your throught is a load of bull? Thats murmuring and its evil, a sin, and wrong! So you must change your heart immediately!!! :doh: :(

[Coconut Flan]

Gothard has spent decades countering any tiny spark of independent thought or critical thinking. In it's way it's kind of smart. If you label any thinking out of the box a sin and sin leads to hell, well what's a person to do except go along with the party line or cut and run? That's why he has to keep them uneducated and ignorant to make the running option unappealing to impossible. He did put a lot of thought into the program. It's too bad it was to such a dreadful end.

[Visionoyahweh]

Outline History’s Greatest Sermon.

The sermon on the mount, or the quiverful verse? I suppose it's really a toss-up with them. Shouldn't the greatest sermon be different for everyone?

Do I Have an Adulterous Heart?

I'd love to know what they count as adultery.

[xReems]

That's the sad thing about IBLP-he knows how to break these girls down until they finally cave in and accept this cult like behavior. Remember that podcast when they interviewed the older Duggar daughters? With questionnaires like that, of course those girls would believe anything Gothard spews at them after! Gothard wants to train these girls to be robotic and all have same thoughts and values; anyone who chooses to do anything "normal" outside of that bubble are considered sinful. Think about it-most of us remember how it was like during our teenage years. I know I was going through an identity crisis and trying to find myself in my own skin; I definitely went through periods where I felt extremely weak and vulnerable. If Gothard was in the picture and I was sent away to that camp, I would have believed anything, especially after doing that test. He brings these girls down until they can no longer think for themselves and trains them to believe how they're awful and selfish and should be doing activities where God is in the center of it.

[Hane]

If anyone could explain to me what an "uncircumcised" heart is, I'd be much obliged.

[Deleted07]

according to bible.cc:

Adulterous Heart is basically anyone who turns from God, and seeks anything outside his word, betraying him and committing adultery toward God himself so it seems...

It is restless, this adulterous heart

Desperate for worth, but wrongly searching

Finding pleasure in things that just leave it empty

As for uncircumsized heart If you desire or have affection for anything that isn't Godly, you have an 'uncircumcised in heart' meaning not submitting to God enough or following his laws. :roll:

Uncircumcised in heart - Circumcision was a sign of being a Jew - of acknowledging the authority of the laws of Moses. It was also emblematic of purity, and of submission to the Law of God. The expression "uncircumcised in heart" denotes those who were not willing to acknowledge that Law, and submit to it. They had hearts filled with vicious and unsubdued affections and desires.

GUH! The more I read these definitions the sadder I am for anyone following this principles. Yuck. :(

[bionicmlle]

They all sound the same to me....

[thoughtful]

Uncircumcised heart? :roll:

It's blatantly a cult indoctrination -- why am I not surprised?

[Burris]

Gah! What a load of horseshit.

I don't even...

[marmalade]

Once properly indoctrinated, here's the Courtship Handbook:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/07/ ... love/#more

Highlights:

Step 1: God reveals to a young man whom he is to marry. Bonus points if he is not attracted to her and/or her existence is pointed out to him by an authority. He cannot, of course, know her well since anything more than a nodding acquaintance with a member of the opposite sex is dangerous. So any confidence he has in proceeding can only come from direct revelation.

Step 2: He seeks his parents’ permission to proceed. They may resort to various stratagems to get to know the girl without arousing her suspicion. Deception is a far less serious crime than arousing improper emotional attachments.

Step 3: He asks her father for permission to court. This begins a months-long vetting process combining techniques used by the Secret Service and the Spanish Inquisition to verify the young man’s impeccable personal history, financial credentials and doctrinal purity.

Step 4: He is given permission by the father to “win his daughter’s heart.†Bonus points if she has no clue that anything is going on until now. Double bonus if she initially thinks he’s icky.

Step 5: The young man tries to “win the girl’s heart,†under close supervision and advisement by her father. The girl receives a divine revelation that she is to marry him, and lets her father know, who then tells the young man. At no time during this process are they without supervision.

Step 6: The parties are now allowed to become emotionally attached, but must still avoid physical contact. (Not kissing is obligatory; not holding hands gets you bonus points.) They also must still never be alone together.

Step 7: They get married, have their first kiss, and waltz off into the blissful life reserved for those who wait for “God’s best.†(At this point they may be alone together, although they still had better be following those rules from the Advanced Seminar.)

[JesusFightClub]

"Wow! Communist regimes would be so jealous because they have trouble getting all their people to submit all the time- but they get to use guns. "

This comment from the thread made me laugh. I haven't noticed Christians having a problem with using guns ;)

Although if your target (hur) audience is teenage girls, you probably don't need heavy weaponry...guilt will do just fine...

(On an aside, what are "lustful pictures"? You might feel lustful looking at them, but pictures are generally unable to feel emotion.)

[hellishfairy]

JMarie wrote:

Is a murmuring heart the same thing as a heart murmur??

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Haha - that was MY first thought - if that's the case then I'm sooooooo screwed.