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  1. There's a new series on ATI Education on Recovering Grace. The intro and Part 1 are currently posted.
  2. This is an old RG article but I can't find that it has been discussed here. RG and another website called on the IBLP BoD to evaluate the Institute's teachings that have caused so much harm. Of course they refused to respond but Bill responded for them because nothing says "I'm totally not in control of this ministry anymore" like answering for the BoD. Bill writes a letter trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for the things he taught and RG responds by using his own words against him. It does not seem like Bill has responded to their response. And the board, obviously has never given any sort of response even though they have been made very much aware that RG wants their reply and not just Bill's. .recoveringgrace.org/2014/12/waiting-on-theological-clarification-from-iblp/ On circumcision: Bill: Circumcision is not a moral requirement for Christians. RG: This issue was point 9 in the 2002 arbitration meeting. The Basic Care Bulletin 11- How to Make a Wise Decision on Circumcision states: "Because this is one subject which is so strongly commended and reinforced in Scripture, there is no question what the decision of Christian parents should be on this matter. It is important to note that circumcision was established before the Law was given. Circumcision goes back to the obedience of Abraham. Thus, those who would seek to dismiss circumcision with the Law would have no Scriptural basis to do so. According to this circumcision is non-optional for a Christian parent and those who might think about choosing against it "have no Scriptural basis to do so.." The booklet goes on to outline "The Basic Elements of a Scriptural Circumcision Ceremony," which are: "1. Provide a Certificate 2. Schedule the Circumcision 3. Determine the Wisest Procedure 4. Invite Special Witnesses 5. Plan the Ceremony" It moves on to the "Suggested Procedure for a Scriptural Ceremony" which includes "1. Recognize the Guests 2. Tell How Circumcision Began 3. Recognize the Eighth Day 4. Emphasize Moral Purity 5. Explain Heart Circumcision 6. Pray for the Child 7. Sign the Certificate." On if Christians should stick to the OT dietary commands: Bill: The answer is "no." The Levitical dietary commands apply to the law of Moses which was given to the Jewish nation RG: Your clear response of "No" to any requirements or demands of the Law of Moses is most refreshing. However, as it applies to the Law's restrictions in eating pork products, your answer in this this paper is contradictory to a well-known forty year history of your tight restrictions against eating any pork products and your teaching and preventing other believers from eating pork products Bill, would you be willing and so bold as to offer some assistance to the Duggar family (which are close friends of yours) so they can also experience your (new) freedom to eat pork and allow others to do so? On Bill's advice about married sex: Bill: About forty years ago I pointed out some medical benefits of these laws. Since then, I have concluded that it is not my place to tell married couples how to run their marriages. RG: This was point 8 of the issues discussed in the 2002 mediation meeting and the one which most shocked Eric Landry of Modern Reformation Magazine. If IBLP has since abandoned this teaching since 2002 and if this reflects public repentance and retraction of the original teachings and is a following through of point 10 of the agreed upon 11 points of arbitration that is welcome. __ Is this a cosmetic alteration to your previous teachings? or __ Are you repenting and recanting your previous teachings? Bill really seems to have thought that he could get away with pretending he didn't actually teach all these things. Sadly for him he left a 40 year trail that proves he did. I bet he was furious when he read that response.
  3. I've not read RG in a couple of months and they have had some good articles. This first one is written by former students describing the regrets that come with being raised ATI. "My greatest regret is not dating and probably marrying the man I loved when I was 19. My parents did not approve of him, and I obeyed them and married the man they did approve of. I thought if I didn't marry him, I'd end up an old maid. It was the biggest mistake of my life, and I am now divorced. If I'd been able to date around a little bit, I would have gained enough understanding and maturity to see the red flags that I did not see then. My other regret is not getting a college degree when I was young, before marriage and kids. Now it is too expensive and difficult to get a degree, I no longer have the time or energy." L. J Forbidding your kids from dating doesn't help them and it isn't a practice for divorce. I hate hearing that. "Looking for a good job, finding one that looks good and getting to the qualifications only to realize they require a two year degree at least. I regret listening to the whole, 'character will open doors for you that education never will.'Bologna! Education gets you in, character and work ethic keep you in. I have many regrets, but my deepest regret is starting to raise my kids in a way that diminished their personality and demanded what they should not have to give. I had to learn to be a loving parent when I could have enjoyed years of seeing them blossom and grow." K.B. Oh yes, Bill used to brag about how ATI students would have people walk up and offer them high paying jobs just based on their shining countenance and great character. A childhood that ought to have been beautiful and sweet, was instead crushed with the harsh, unforgiving burden of living under the hundreds of ATI rules. We regret that as adults we have stunted relationships with our parents who seem incapable of ever just loving us, but instead always finding something in our lives to judge and condemn. This is the truth and I wished it came through in the Duggar and Bates shows. Being raised ATI, especially as deep into ATI as those families are, is not fun. From the comments Before 1998ish: "You don't need a degree, only character counts. You will have tons of opportunities... you will work for kings. People with degrees are idiots and heathens anyway. You will have to sell your soul to get a degree." This is the ATI I was raised with After 1998ish: "Everyone should get a degree through Verity, or a fake degree of some kind. Louisiana Baptist University will give you a degree for washing dishes at a training center. Embassy "University" will give you a degree for watching Larry Guthrie eat crayons, the Pineapple Story, and Advanced Seminar. It really doesn't matter how you get a degree, as long as you do it through us." "By the way, Bill Gothard just got a P.H.D. from LBU! Yay! Oh, and everyone on the Board has advanced degrees from secular colleges. Awesome! All our conference speakers have advanced degrees this year! So cool!" It would have been one thing if they had admitted they were wrong about the whole college thing, but they didn't. They went with "Let's pretend that never happened and that we didn't majorly fuck up the lives of thousands of former students." http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/01/ ... rets/#more This article is about the ATI curriculum. The Advanced Training Institute (ATI) curriculum was promoted and sold to pastors and homeschool parents as the best homeschool curriculum in the world People who are lured into ATI are told this and are usually shocked to find out that they have been lied to, but you are also made to feel like it is your fault if the curriculum doesn't work. The education concept that was supposed to make ATI curriculum "advanced" is that of teaching by using analogies and training young people to think in analogies. Basing the curriculum on Scripture was part of the analogy process and made the curriculum unique. Using Scripture also made the ATI curriculum appear to be a very godly program. Bill Gothard used the fact that it was uniquely based around the Sermon on the Mount as a powerful selling feature that got many of us parents to want to be part of his faulty education program I can still recite the Sermon on the Mount. Bill Gothard said that the ATI curriculum was far superior to other education materials because it taught using analogies and integrated Scripture with academic subjects. He stated that teaching individual subjects (math, English, science, history, etc.) separately from each of the others, as is done in traditional education, prevented children from being able to have a broader scope of reasoning and thinking. The ATI curriculum was supposed to be an advanced training system because it integrated the academic subjects. However, it was soon discovered that the Wisdom Booklets (the ATI curriculum) were not adequate for teaching math and English. Traditional education curriculums had to be used to supplement the ATI curriculum and those and some other subjects were taught separately. Sucks to be the parents who can't afford to buy another curriculum after buying the worthless ATI one. Gothard told us that with the content and design of the Wisdom Booklets, in 12 years the ATI program would not only give a child a high school equivalent training, but would also give the equivalent of four years of college, a pre-law, a pre-med, and a business education Bill Gothard made the following statements: "The ATI program - the Federal Education Board does not have tests to give the achievement! The students are acing the tests!" "By the 12th year [a young person will have the equivalent of] a pre-med, a pre-law, and a business [degree]." "The way to teach children wisdom is to speak in analogies." There are not even tests that can test the wisdom of ATI students! The little Wisdom Booklets do not even have enough content in their small number of pages to be able to give a child a high school level of training, let alone the equivalent of a triple college degree. There was basically nothing in the Wisdom Booklets on business. This lack of content was a frustration for many mothers because they had to pull in other resources to complete the curriculum What was worse were the parents who didn't realize that they were being scammed and didn't even try to supplement. Not only does the ATI program not have enough content to give a high school level of training, it is only a seven year curriculum. It is not a complete 12 year curriculum. From eighth grade to twelfth grade, when a person should be learning higher level subjects, the ATI student repeats the content that they had in their elementary grades http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/03/ ... rt-1/#more
  4. I've been reading at Recovering Grace for quite a while, following the discourse about about the fall of Bill Gothard and ILBP, reading the stories of those ATI members and families trying to recover from years of spiritual abuse, and trying to understand the vehemence and denial of those who still defend this man and the ideals of extreme fundamentalism. This article, addressing the feigned repentance of Bill Gothard, is one of the most thoughtful, powerful and tremendously well-written pieces I've read at Recovering Grace. The author's descriptive analogy of Bill Gothard's failures and those of her own father left me breathless at times. recoveringgrace.org/2014/11/you-cannot-pay-with-words/#more The article speaks about the type of person/family who is attracted to such extremism, and how Gothard, on his own broken, narcissistic path, could manipulate those people to further his megalomaniac empire. The comments are, as always, just as thoughtful and profound.
  5. I haven't seen a thread about this yet, but has anyone else read the story on Recovering Grace about one of Gothard's secretaries? It is in six parts and it long but worth a read. Basically he gets a sheltered young woman and slowly starts grooming her to be submissive to his sexual advances. Being a sheltered ATI student she didn't realize that the things he was doing was wrong even though they made her feel uncomfortable. In the comments he still gets supporters(Alfred in particular sees nothing wrong with what he did). I think he could rape someone and people would defend him. She is not the only young woman he has done this to. I don't think he really had intentions of marrying her, I think he gets sexual satisfaction out of doing this to young women under his leadership. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/01/ ... -part-one/
  6. For those on the recovering grace facebook a user posted about being caught leaving recovering grace cards at ATI and discussed it with John Duggar and another guy so now at least one Duggar knows there is a way out. The question though is if they will ever take the chance now that they know. So... Someone must have seen me drop a card somewhere this afternoon.. Why you ask? Well because they ratted me out and I got the chance to meet John Duggar and another guy and they proceeded to ask me about what and why I was doing leaving RG cards around the conference. At first I played a little dumb about it.. But then I thought.. What the heck. I'll just engage them a bit. So I talked to these guys and then David Waller? came up and I talked to him.. I told them some of my reasons for the cards. Then I shifted the convo a bit. Then David took me over to talk to Mr Mattix.. Talked to him a while about Russia and all that.. Things were actually going quite well. I should have known better. One of the minions ran and got BG. So he comes over and we sit down at a table and continue our friendly talk about Russia and my job and other non threatening subjects. Then BG says.. So how was your childhood? And I'm thinking... Huh? So I say.. Oh it was good. Pretty normal. Ups and downs. About like any other. Then he started asking about the RG cards. Ha! I have to say when all this started I was quite nervous. But when I was talking to BG I was as clear minded and confident as I could be! It was great! I avoided getting into a war of scripture.. Cause I knew he would win that seeing I was Ill prepared. But I was very frank with him. I kept it to general things. I talked about extreme parents and how his teaching is used against children in damaging ways. That he needs to STRESS that what may be for him may not be for everyone. I gave him examples of several things we discussed so he would know EXACTLY what I was saying. Our talk encompassed many other topics.. Nothing super deep. But I didn't give in to him. I looked him in the eye the whole time. Ha! All that rock music must have been so visible to him. ANYWAYS.. There was a moment when he tried to kinda guilt me a bit.. He talked about when he gave me money as a gift for serving at the mtc. And his point was kinda.. I did this and you come here and do this to me? I acknowledged that I remembered his gifts. But I just let his comment go and I moved on. Well he said that he felt like he owed me more for all the service I had done for the ministry.. I was hoping he'd give me more money. I totally would have taken it too! but he said why don't we go over to the book tables and I'll give you a few books. Oh goodie. More useless paper. So we walk over and he kept talking about things going on in ati.. I think he was going to offer me a job with some new thing he has going. But he got distracted. Lol! He ended up giving me 3 personally inscribed copies of his books. I'm pretty sure two of them are very recent.. So... RG people.. I have things for you if you want them. In all we talked for about an hour and a half or so. I also gave Mr Mattix my thoughts on other things.. All in all it turned out to be a productive day. I did see two rebel looking guys with RG cards.. Maybe they'll find something there. Despite all going as well as it did.. It was 1 on 3. So needless to say.. I'm slightly worn out.
  7. Recovering Grace has a story from a woman who went to live in Russia, her parents, sensing something was wrong went over there. Her mother first, then her dad and they stayed six weeks, despite ATI not being really happy about that. I really, really wanted to go to Russia when I was in ATI because they made it sound so cool and amazing. We saw videos and it seemed like the most awesome place ever and on top of getting to go to Russia you would get to help make the life of an orphan better. But this interview shows what it was really like and I am so glad I didn't go. The dad in this interview does seem a tad of a jerk, with him telling the mom that she had to stay even after she said she was scared and wanted to come home right away. But it gives an idea of what a scary, controlling cult ATI really is and the Gothard defenders can't dismiss this as just being rebellious, bitter teens. At these training centers, all communications are heavily monitored. And, in my experience, they would also withhold being able to contact parents as a punishment. That happened when I was in the Dallas training center. Not only did I have no idea how to tell my parents what was happening, but also much of my communication with them was monitored. Regular mail came and went through ATI/IBLP Headquarters and was all opened. Faxes and e-mails were to be given to someone else to send. However, since I worked in the office, I found ways to send faxes to my parents at night. A person known to monitor and report the contents of calls would always just happen to be the phone room while I was making a call. From the mother on when they started to suspect something was very wrong: Something else that tipped me off was when I started raving about the wonderful story in the [ATI] newsletter I had just received, and you tersely responded that this was not at all what had happened. Gothard flat out lies in these newsletters. As I look back, there were things that should have tipped me off. For one, they [iBLP/ATI Headquarters staff] didn't want to let me purchase my own ticket, because they wanted the frequent flyer miles. They didn't know they were dealing the original Mrs. Scrooge, and I insisted, and I ended up purchasing my own ticket. They also wanted to limit the length of my stay. They informed me that "most parents stayed only for a short amount of time. I ended up staying for six weeks in spite of their 'encouragement' otherwise. In order to fit in, I got a perm so I would have curls. My greeting at the MTC was being pulled aside by a very "concerned" staff mother who informed me, "Mrs. Hall, I can tell that Diana came from a good home, but she's fallen in with the wrong crowd." I have no idea how many times I have heard this being done to make the parents not want to believe what the teen/adult child says. Totally controlling, everyone living in fear, super amount of kissing up. Then Bill Gothard showed up traveling with a young lady he would walk around alone with, and I thought, "This is highly inappropriate!" Then I began to notice that her clothes and makeup were not held to the same strict standard as the rest of the girls. Gothard, totally not able to travel without a teen girl to keep him company. On how students there were punished: young man forced to repeatedly sweep a not-really-dirty sidewalk to keep him down and break his spirit, the case of a girl who was treated as "almost an LIT" [Leader in Training] having to get up to clean toilets at 4 a.m. as punishment for one candy wrapper someone else threw in her garbage can between the time she cleaned and the time of room check, One of the final blows was a situation that happened while we were visiting St. Petersburg. One of the students did something that was against the rules. It was not a horrible or evil thing, but it was against the rules. This student's parents were about to come visit, as already arranged, and in spite of their begging to be allowed to arrive before he made a final decision, Bill sent the student home immediately. He then proceeded to lie about the student's past in front of a general meeting at the training center, and defamed this student's character. Any respect we might have still had for Bill at this point was totally gone http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/01/ ... llage-mtc/ All the Duggar/Bates fans who think that ATI is just a innocent homeschool group needs to read this and see what it is really like. It is a cult, a dangerous cult.
  8. recoveringgrace.org/2012/07/how-to-spiritually-manipulate-young-people-in-six-easy-steps/ Apparently, if you enjoy reading a novel, that's bad because it steers you away from loving God. That's how Gothard gets those girls on Journey to the Heart to feel bad about themselves and make them see how "sinful" they are, when they're really not. These poor girls are so vulnerable that a simple questionnaire, like the one posted, could break any of them down. According to Gothard, any simple pleasure in life that doesn't involve God, makes you an awful and selfish person.
  9. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/ They put up a sign on the road leading to the Nashville ATI conference welcoming ATI families to visit their site.
  10. At Recovering Grace a poster left this comment under "Failed Protectors" It sure sounds like them.
  11. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/04/ ... rotectors/ http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/04/ ... rs-part-2/ I have not posted fondly about Recovering Grace before now because I had no use for their very Christian spin on life post ATIA but I will give them huge props for the latest series of articles tackling sexual abuse within ATIA and Gothardite circles. Disclaimer: The links contain stories with graphic and potentially triggering content for sexual abuse survivors. I am posting this here because I want the pro-Gothard/Duggar/Bates/Fundie living readers to understand what they are supporting. This is what you are defending, people. Open your eyes. Updating links (assumed correct ones): http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/04/exploited-innocence/ http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/04/sexual-harassment-part-2-arent-you-making-too-big-an-issue-of-this/
  12. Has anyone read this one? This girl tells stories about how Gothard treated her and the girls there and made them uncomfortable. Does anyone know of this really happened? http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/04/ ... innocence/
  13. An interesting rebuttal to Bill Gothard's latest letter to all past and current followers: ETA: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/01/ ... l-gothard/
  14. www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/09/a-diffe ... ual-abuse/ I cried when I read this story. Just when I think I reach the bottom of the Gothard madness, there is more.
  15. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/08/ ... omment-893 I'm really loving this site and I so wish Gothard followers would be open to really looking at it because it truly shows how wrong Gothard is about pretty much everything. But I know from experience that most Gothard followers just look at sites like this and say "They are filled with bitterness!" Anyway, I remember briefly having to get rid of all the things in our house that had a rock beat when my parents first got into ATI. But that didn't last long and we were back to listening to CCM and hiding it from other ATI familes. I also remember having an argument with someone in ATI where I said that rock music wasn't bad and they said that if it didn't have control over my life, why did I struggle with giving it up? That my defending rock music showed it was addictive and that I needed to break the addiction. I actually briefly believed it, but then I realized that made no sense and stopped worrying about it. LOL
  16. formergothardite

    An ATI Childhood

    This is a new blog set up to shed the light on the harmful teachings of ATI. One of the writers shares his story about growing up in ATI and I thought people might be interested in reading it. I'm not breaking the link because I'm pretty sure they will be okay with us discussing them. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/07/atichildhood1/
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