Were Nate & Mel "punished?

[Justme]

In the eyes of the Maxwells. When Nate & Mel were courting and engaged, they, touched! He was also alone with her to propose, and in the limo. (All clearly stated in their blog, plus "touching" photo's.) They practiced entwining arms for the wedding toast.

 

Since they didn't concieve for 4 years, have issues maintaining pregnancies, lost their first, and have only girls, do the Maxwells think they are being "punished"? Chris and Anna did not touch and conceived a boy in a fairly reasonable amount of time after the wedding. Could this be why they are now so "no touching" stance?

 

I don't think Stevie, etc. have ever "said" as much to Nate, be could it be in his/their "hearts"?

[Vex]

Girls early on are a huge 'blessing' to fundies, because they can raise all the kids. I don't think the lack of a son is a worry for them.

Also, it's not as if they agreed not to touch and then did - it wasn't a no touching courtship. It seems to be up to the individuals involved (or at least the father of the girl involved) as to whether their courtship allows touching or not.

[Deleted03]

Girls early on are a huge 'blessing' to fundies, because they can raise all the kids. I don't think the lack of a son is a worry for them.

Also, it's not as if they agreed not to touch and then did - it wasn't a no touching courtship. It seems to be up to the individuals involved (or at least the father of the girl involved) as to whether their courtship allows touching or not.

are you kidding? Girls are an informal blessing for the mom not the dad, and we all know who matters around a house.

I am sure Stevie thinks it's a punishment: obviously the other couple did it right since they got a boy on the first try.

[Fundilicious]

Well I could see that maybe to the headships having a boy first would be the ultimate blessing. However, we all know Mel and Teri were thanking the Lord that Mel had 3 girls first, because like another poster stated they now have their own set of Jslaves to run the house and parent the other 12 children (if Mel even ever gets there---I hope no, but I also hope the poor girl doesn't suffer many miscarriages either).

So while Stevie and Nathan might believe they are being punished, I'm sure Mel is saying praises under her breath for the way things have turned out so far.

[kpmom]

I do wonder how Nathan and Melanie feel when they read about these purer-than-theirs courtships?

And now of course every Maxwell will have to follow suit. If John does something even more restrictive when his time comes, the rest will feel they have to do that too.

[Arete]

I think the difference in the 3 brothers' courtships illustrates the progression of the crazy in the Maxwell cult.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I do wonder how Nathan and Melanie feel when they read about these purer-than-theirs courtships?

And now of course every Maxwell will have to follow suit. If John does something even more restrictive when his time comes, the rest will feel they have to do that too.

If they've fully bought into the crazy, surely they think some warm fuzzy thoughts about how wonderful it is that their younger sibling and his fiancee have managed to be on an even higher level that they are - just as Sarah thinks it's a great thing that the reversal kids have never known friends.

[ElphabaGalinda]

If they've fully bought into the crazy, surely they think some warm fuzzy thoughts about how wonderful it is that their younger sibling and his fiancee have managed to be on an even higher level that they are - just as Sarah thinks it's a great thing that the reversal kids have never known friends.

I agree. Just like Steve and Teri never went the courtship route but are now proud to offer that "protection" to their children, Nathan and Melanie are probably delighted that the younger ones will have a much "purer" courtship than they did. I have a feeling when John decides to court it'll be even more restrictive, since the Maxwells get crazier every year. But I can't imagine anything more restrictive than what Joseph and Elizabeth are doing.

I really hope they don't think they're cursed with girls, and I think as long as they're truly trusting God with their fertility, they'll be happy with their daughters and any other child they may get.

[Rosie]

In the eyes of the Maxwells. When Nate & Mel were courting and engaged, they, touched! He was also alone with her to propose, and in the limo. (All clearly stated in their blog, plus "touching" photo's.) They practiced entwining arms for the wedding toast.

Since they didn't concieve for 4 years, have issues maintaining pregnancies, lost their first, and have only girls, do the Maxwells think they are being "punished"? Chris and Anna did not touch and conceived a boy in a fairly reasonable amount of time after the wedding. Could this be why they are now so "no touching" stance?

I don't think Stevie, etc. have ever "said" as much to Nate, be could it be in his/their "hearts"?

She's a floozy, it's that simple.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Didn't they meet in....church! They didn't even have a proper arranged marriage, with all that speaking to each other they probably did before courting. To top Joseph, John probably won't be allowed to meet his wife before engagement.

[YPestis]

The Maxwells have steadily declined into fundie craziness over the years. I don't know what Melanie and Nathan feel about the 'no-touch' rule, but I'm sure Steve and Teri rationalize the increasingly fundieness as practicing a more "pure" form of courtship. Sarah wrote that while she had played with neighborhood kids growing up and even went on sleepovers, she is so happy the younger five kids have never had outside friends nor been exposed to these nefarious secular influences.

As for girls vs boys thing. Honestly, I think this is one aspect of patriarchy that isn't practiced to a large extent. Boys were valued for economic reasons because they brought in workers. Now, it's the girls who can offer the free labor. More girls means easier time for both mom and dad with large families. I mean, even if Steve and Jim Bob don't do much diaper changing, it's hard to avoid the constant crying, barely cooked dinners, and dirty laundry when mom is the only one taking care of a large family. I'm sure even fundie men are appreciative of a well run house. And that well run household can't be achieved with five older sons who are taught housework is for girls and leave poor mom to take care of ten younger kids. No, for really fringe fundies who want to preserve gender roles, a large, peaceful fundie home can only exist with help from a train of teenage girls who can care for the younger siblings.

[marmalade]

I think the difference in the 3 brothers' courtships illustrates the progression of the crazy in the Maxwell cult.

Well, this is less than 4 months between meeting and marriage and even less when you consider they didn't start "courting" right away...and the "courting" appears to be more between Joe and Liz's dad than between the couple.

What's next? A quickie drive-thru? That was the gist of my elopement joke; I know fundies would NEVER consider it, but at this rate, Steve is heading in that direction and still has two sons to go. I think he may let the daughters go a little longer, depending on what the guy can bring to the table.

[ladyamylynn]

She's a floozy, it's that simple.

This made me giggle too hard. It's bedtime.

[FloraDoraDolly]

The Maxwells have never hinted at any disappointment in Nathan's girls. After Nathan and Melanie's first daughter died, the whole family seems happy that they were able to have three healthy children.

I can't think of ANY fundie/Quiverfull family that has written about girls being considered a curse or a punishment. They're always going on and on about how all children are a blessing from the Lord.

If fundies absolutely have to court and not date, I think the way Nathan and Melanie went about it is better than marrying a total stranger. I wonder if they ever go back to their old church? I assume her parents are still members there. And do they take the girls? I hope so!

[TMS]

The Maxwells have never hinted at any disappointment in Nathan's girls. After Nathan and Melanie's first daughter died, the whole family seems happy that they were able to have three healthy children.

I can't think of ANY fundie/Quiverfull family that has written about girls being considered a curse or a punishment. They're always going on and on about how all children are a blessing from the Lord.

If fundies absolutely have to court and not date, I think the way Nathan and Melanie went about it is better than marrying a total stranger. I wonder if they ever go back to their old church? I assume her parents are still members there. And do they take the girls? I hope so!

I agree. I think there is too much reading into things when it is concluded that boys are preferred over girls.

Interesting point about Nathan & Melanie's old church - I assume her parents would still attend there, since there is never any mention of them attending the Maxwell Church for the Elderly. I wonder if they go back.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree. I think there is too much reading into things when it is concluded that boys are preferred over girls.

Interesting point about Nathan & Melanie's old church - I assume her parents would still attend there, since there is never any mention of them attending the Maxwell Church for the Elderly. I wonder if they go back.

I agree that is is a stretch that the Maxwells would see the girls as any kind of punishment. They are clearly adored (in the special non-idolatrous Maxwell way).

I would imagine though that the emphasis on children being a "blessing" and "reward" would rather play very heavily into the postnatal depression Mel has experienced following her difficult pregnancies and the loss of Susannah and the two miscarried babies. If children are a blessing, then any "failure" to produce a live baby must take a terrible toll on the human psyche and feel like a terrible punishment for doing something wrong. :(