Huckabee creates Chick-fil-a appreciation day - NSFW

[jericho]

strong-arm

adjective

INFORMAL using physical force or violence

Also...

characterized by or full of force or strength (often but not necessarily physical); "a forceful speaker"; "a forceful personality"; "forceful measures"; "a forceful plan for peace"

[RachelB]

First, I never used the word conspiracy. Second, its not just publicly calling out something. It's how the media runs with it, celebrities embrace it, social media explodes with it. With an issue that at least half the country is divided on, they make it appear as if there is no other opinion acceptable, period. This is why the opinion is swaying so fast toward accepting homosexuality. Like I said, the LGBT movement has done a very good job in teaming up together and fighting particular issues.

Sure. The fact that marriage equality has been law in Massachusetts for over five years, and the sky hasn't fallen is totally irrelevant, right? (None of the legislators who voted for marriage equality lost the next election over it.) The fact that more people now know they have QUILTBAG family members, friends, co-workers, or neighbors who are humans, not fire-breathing dragons, is totally irrelevant, right?

When you say things like "they make it appear as if there is no other opinion acceptable," you look like you're wedded to the idea that there's an all-powerful gay Mafia out there somewhere, "strong-arming" your country (which, newsflash, isn't just yours) into recognizing their civil rights, as if that were the worst thing in the world.

Sometimes, rational people change their opinions when faced with new evidence. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

[jericho]

Sure. The fact that marriage equality has been law in Massachusetts for over five years, and the sky hasn't fallen is totally irrelevant, right? (None of the legislators who voted for marriage equality lost the next election over it.) The fact that more people now know they have QUILTBAG family members, friends, co-workers, or neighbors who are humans, not fire-breathing dragons, is totally irrelevant, right?

When you say things like "they make it appear as if there is no other opinion acceptable," you look like you're wedded to the idea that there's an all-powerful gay Mafia out there somewhere, "strong-arming" your country (which, newsflash, isn't just yours) into recognizing their civil rights, as if that were the worst thing in the world.

Sometimes, rational people change their opinions when faced with new evidence. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Name one election that has dealt with gay marriage that has won the vote? Name one substantial poll that has shown an overwhelming support for gay marriage?

I very much understand that opinions are changing, but gay marriage is not widely accepted yet, despite what the media and celebrities will have you think.

[Witsec7]

Also...

characterized by or full of force or strength (often but not necessarily physical); "a forceful speaker"; "a forceful personality"; "forceful measures"; "a forceful plan for peace"

Lets get back to this J. You don't seem to be complaining about FOF or Million Mom's they are exceptions because they support your paradigm. These organizations use social media, pulpits and the press but you refuse to conclude that their tactics fit your definition.

[JenniferJuniper]

The fact that marriage equality has been law in Massachusetts for over five years, and the sky hasn't fallen is totally irrelevant, right? (None of the legislators who voted for marriage equality lost the next election over it.)

Actually, it's been over 8 years. I know this because my neighbors Adam and Jeff just celebrated their 8th wedding anniversary a few weeks ago. (They sometimes joke "It's Adam and Jeff, not Adam and Steve!")

[JenniferJuniper]

Name one election that has dealt with gay marriage that has won the vote? Name one substantial poll that has shown an overwhelming support for gay marriage?

I very much understand that opinions are changing, but gay marriage is not widely accepted yet, despite what the media and celebrities will have you think.

Why should the majority get to vote on what civil rights the minority should be allowed?

[jericho]

Lets get back to this J. You don't seem to be complaining about FOF or Million Mom's they are exceptions because they support your paradigm. These organizations use social media, pulpits and the press but you refuse to conclude that their tactics fit your definition.

I support Focus on the Family. I have not heard anything yet I disagree with them on. I do not support fully the Million Mom's. They mislead by trying to say their tactics were fully responsible for things they were not.

[formergothardite]

Yeah you've said that over and over.

Well it's true, when you get proven wrong, instead of admitting you are wrong you just flounce or say that you are done talking about it.

Jericho, the guy who would rather live in a society that murders natives and steals their land, yet makes the gays stay hidden over a society that thinks murdering natives is wrong and lets gay people get married.

[Witsec7]

Lets get back to this J. You don't seem to be complaining about FOF or Million Mom's they are exceptions because they support your paradigm. These organizations use social media, pulpits and the press but you refuse to conclude that their tactics fit your definition.

And yet FOF and MMs use the same tactics that you characterize as strong arm. Funny but you are ignoring your own contradiction. So I'll repeat the question. What makes the tactics of FOF and MMs not fall under your definition of strong arm.

[jericho]

Why should the majority get to vote on what civil rights the minority should be allowed?

Because the United States has a democratic election process.

[formergothardite]

I will admit that I don't know if Jericho really thinks society was better when the Native Americans were being murdered, but gay people were being shunned. He won't say. So we will have to take his lack of answering as a yes. Because most people who think murder is worse than gay marriage would say that.

[jericho]

Well it's true, when you get proven wrong, instead of admitting you are wrong you just flounce or say that you are done talking about it.

Jericho, the guy who would rather live in a society that murders natives and steals their land, yet makes the gays stay hidden over a society that thinks murdering natives is wrong and lets gay people get married.

I've commented on your statement before on this thread. Go look. You can keep repeating this same thing over and over, but I'm not going to keep responding to it over and over.

[Maggie Mae]

Will you please explain to me WHY you don't accept homosexuality, and why your opinion should be the law of a country that doesn't have a state religion?

[jericho]

And yet FOF and MMs use the same tactics that you characterize as strong arm. Funny but you are ignoring your own contradiction. So I'll repeat the question. What makes the tactics of FOF and MMs not fall under your definition of strong arm.

Oh, they strong arm, but they aren't as effective as the LGBT crowd.

[Guest Anonymous]

Because the United States has a democratic election process.

We also have a system of checks and balances to counteract the tyranny of the majority. When the Supreme Court judged anti-miscegenation laws to be unconstitutional in 1967, the majority of Americans were not in favor of interracial marriage. It didn't matter, because civil rights are to be upheld whether most people like them or not. Gay marriage has twice the support today that interracial marriage had in 1967. (Source: Gallup polls. http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/02/19 ... in-1968-2/ )

[jericho]

Will you please explain to me WHY you don't accept homosexuality, and why your opinion should be the law of a country that doesn't have a state religion?

I don't accept homosexuality as moral and not a sin because God said so in His word. My opinion is my opinion (which I believe is the Truth) and thanks to our founding fathers, I have the freedom to express that opinion. I believe God's plans are what is best for mankind and I would like it as law.

[Witsec7]

Oh, they strong arm, but they aren't as effective as the LGBT crowd.

Ah so your whine is based on who can wage a more successful public awareness campaign using the same methodology. In that case it has nothing do with ideology just more effective organizing.

I rest my case.

[formergothardite]

So you think it would be okay for racial segregation to be voted back in?

I can't find where jericho said exactly when the country was closer to the Bible than now? Can you please link me to that post? It totally missed it. My bad. I will totally own up to when I am wrong.

[jericho]

Ah so your whine is based on who can wage a more successful public awareness campaign using the same methodology. In that case it has nothing do with ideology just more effective organizing.

I rest my case.

Did I say effective organizing was everything? If it was, then I guess I should just shut up stop caring about any issue that the polls say my opinion is losing in.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't accept homosexuality as moral and not a sin because God said so in His word. My opinion is my opinion (which I believe is the Truth) and thanks to our founding fathers, I have the freedom to express that opinion. I believe God's plans are what is best for mankind and I would like it as law.

Well tough shit because that's not the way the United States works. We don't have a state religion here. I suggest you move to Saudi Arabia or any other theocracy of your choice. As long as you're here though, you can have your opinion and express it all day long without censure from the government, thanks to the very freedoms that you want to deny other people.

[jericho]

Well tough shit because that's not the way the United States works. We don't have a state religion here. I suggest you move to Saudi Arabia or any other theocracy of your choice. As long as you're here though, you can have your opinion and express it all day long without censure from the government, thanks to the very freedoms that you want to deny other people.

I didn't say the United States government has to force Christianity. This is an issue that people even other than Christians don't support. I was asked MY personal reasoning and I gave it. It doesn't have to be the reasoning of the government.

[Minerva]

First, I never used the word conspiracy.

You didn't need to.

LGBT organizations have taken over our media, our entertainment, and most of our government which is why its becoming so rapidly accepted.

It's systematically attacking them from all sides, with the help of the media, entertainment, politics and more.

It's more like a Witch Hunt. I've already read some new news stories today about investigations into Chick Fil-A. They are leaving no stone un-turned.

Second, its not just publicly calling out something. It's how the media runs with it, celebrities embrace it, social media explodes with it. With an issue that at least half the country is divided on, they make it appear as if there is no other opinion acceptable, period.

Yeah, I got that bit. You think the LGBT rights movement is controlling the media so as to make it disproportionately, if not unanimously, supportive of them. You also think they have a similar control over politics. I asked you to explain how they're doing it, and to prove that they are doing it.

I just typed "same sex marriage" and "traditional marriage" into the American Google. The American newsfeed was full of articles on Chick-Fil-A. "Same sex marriage" yielded in the first page, aside from an anti-gay opinion piece, a bunch of neutral reporting on the subject. Pro and anti gay rights voices were represented about evenly. "Traditional marriage" yielded more opinion pieces, most of which were anti-gay, but also neutral reporting. Anti-gay voices were slightly more dominant. This is not surprising given that "traditional marriage" is a less neutral term than "same-sex marriage". So I still have yet to see this barrage of slanted, pro gay rights reporting you describe.

[deelaem]

I don't accept homosexuality as moral and not a sin because God said so in His word. My opinion is my opinion (which I believe is the Truth) and thanks to our founding fathers, I have the freedom to express that opinion. I believe God's plans are what is best for mankind and I would like it as law.

And yet you want to deny everyone who doesn't believe in the bible their rights. Apparently you'd like this country to be the United States of Jericho. Yeah, not gonna happen.

Your posts are the very worst kind of mansplaining, which pretty much never works here. You aren't liked, you aren't wanted, so why the hell are you here? Do you really think that your attitude is going to bring you converts? Or are you just getting off on this? Never mind, I know it's the latter.

[jericho]

And yet you want to deny everyone who doesn't believe in the bible their rights. Apparently you'd like this country to be the United States of Jericho. Yeah, not gonna happen.

Your posts are the very worst kind of mansplaining, which pretty much never works here. You aren't liked, you aren't wanted, so why the hell are you here? Do you really think that your attitude is going to bring you converts? Or are you just getting off on this? Never mind, I know it's the latter.

Wow, I get scolded for staying here and scolded for taking off. Dammed if I do, dammed if I don't.

[RachelB]

Name one election that has dealt with gay marriage that has won the vote? Name one substantial poll that has shown an overwhelming support for gay marriage?

I very much understand that opinions are changing, but gay marriage is not widely accepted yet, despite what the media and celebrities will have you think..

Point 1: Massachusetts was decided by legislative vote, not ballot referendum. But none of the legislators who voted for marriage equality and up for election in the subsequent election cycle lost his or her seat. That looks like voter support to me.

Point 2: Nationwide, 53% of people asked support marriage equality in the most recent poll (which was taken a few days after President Obama announced that his position on marriage equality had finally "evolved"). That's not a strong majority, but it is a majority, and it's going to get bigger. Do you know why? People become less afraid of making marriage more inclusive when they have evidence that doing so does not lead to catastrophe. (I don't understand what they're afraid of, but I'm wiling to grant that fear is not rational.) Marriage equality is the only thing that can provide that evidence.

For a little perspective, the Supreme Court released its verdict in Loving vs. Virginia, which struck down laws against interracial marriage, in 1967. At that point, four fifths of Americans disapproved of interracial marriage. Public opinion changed when interracial marriage did not result in the sky falling. As I have said before, evidence can change the opinion of rational people.

On civil rights issues, the judicial and legislative branch have consistently (though not universally) pushed the electorate in the U.S., which is good. Because in 1967, what proportion of the 80% of Americans opposed to interracial marriage would have opposed it for a reason that was better founded than "It's icky," or "God doesn't like it! See Leviticus 19:19"? Those aren't reasons. They're prejudices.

Of course, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you don't have any problem with interracial marriage. If I'm wrong, I have nothing more to say to you.