Veiled Pagans?

[Deleted08]

riamorrison.hubpages.com/hub/Veiled-Pagans

 

I am kind of surprised to see this is getting really popular. What do you all think?

[mirele]

riamorrison.hubpages.com/hub/Veiled-Pagans

I am kind of surprised to see this is getting really popular. What do you all think?

She writes:

So why do I cover, if my religion doesn't command it and I meet so much controversy because of it. Well, the reason is a duel-layered one. The first reason is that I feel called to do so. My deities don't require it of me, but I feel as though something is telling me that it's the right thing for me to do. That, I think, is the biggest reason. When your deities ask for something, you don't really want to say no! :)

This is bizarre. I think she wants to be the Pagan speshul snowflake and I doubt what she's doing goes over real well with the rest of the Pagan community.

ETA: My initial thought may have been hasty. Here is a discussion about Pagan veiling on the Pantheon blog: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/pantheon/2 ... womanhood/

[LucySnowe]

I got as far as 'skyclad', Googled it to make sure I was interpreting it correctly (I was), and pretty much gave up.

Pagans are just making it all up anyway, as far as I can tell, so I can't see it's a big deal. You want to do something, fine. Your deities lay it on your heart to cover your hair, knock yourself out.

[pixydust]

I got as far as 'skyclad', Googled it to make sure I was interpreting it correctly (I was), and pretty much gave up.

Pagans are just making it all up anyway, as far as I can tell, so I can't see it's a big deal. You want to do something, fine. Your deities lay it on your heart to cover your hair, knock yourself out.

I'm curious as to why you think that Pagans are making it up? Some Pagan religions are among the oldest in the world, far older than Christianity or even Judaism. Pagans follow valid religions and practices, so I'm really curious as to why you would say that.

[deelaem]

I got as far as 'skyclad', Googled it to make sure I was interpreting it correctly (I was), and pretty much gave up.

Pagans are just making it all up anyway, as far as I can tell, so I can't see it's a big deal. You want to do something, fine. Your deities lay it on your heart to cover your hair, knock yourself out.

So are Christians, as well as all other religions. None of them are based in fact.

[kunoichi66]

I'm curious as to why you think that Pagans are making it up? Some Pagan religions are among the oldest in the world, far older than Christianity or even Judaism. Pagans follow valid religions and practices, so I'm really curious as to why you would say that.

Seconded. I'm a Pagan. I also sometimes cover my hair for religious reasons.

[LucySnowe]

Some Pagan religions are among the oldest in the world, far older than Christianity or even Judaism.

Such as which? Neo-paganism is largely a Romantic invention.

[kunoichi66]

Such as which? Neo-paganism is largely a Romantic invention.

Druidism, for one.

[NjoyingNsanity]

Yes some Pagans do headcoverings, hey I even know of several Pagan nuns who essentially live a life dedicated to their patron diety. I also know several godspouses or otherwise godtouched people whose dieties require they wear only certain colors, eat only certain foods, get certain tattoos, wear certain jewelry or hairstyles and a whole host of other things.

[kunoichi66]

Such as which? Neo-paganism is largely a Romantic invention.

The Greek pantheon.

The Roman pantheon.

Shamanism.

The Mesopotamian and Aztec Gods.

[Guest Anonymous]

The Greek pantheon.

The Roman pantheon.

Shamanism.

The Mesopotamian and Aztec Gods.

Shamanism.

Your definition of paganism seems pretty broad. Is that standard? I am honestly asking, no snark. Does paganism just mean polytheism? What's the standard?

[margiebargie]

So are Christians, as well as all other religions. None of them are based in fact.

Yep. And pagans, at least neo-pagans, have the opportunity to make up ethically sound religions, where women are treated as equals. It's kind of sad that all this woman shoots for is headcovering. She's just following in the tracks of all the other crappy religions out there. Wasted opportunity.

[Spider Burps]

Yes some Pagans do headcoverings, hey I even know of several Pagan nuns who essentially live a life dedicated to their patron diety. I also know several godspouses or otherwise godtouched people whose dieties require they wear only certain colors, eat only certain foods, get certain tattoos, wear certain jewelry or hairstyles and a whole host of other things.

Yeah, well, my deity says I can only smoke certain weed out of a certain bong. Neither the green nor the glass are of the cheap variety. Don't worry, though, God says everyone else is fine smoking schwag in rolling papers.

Something seems "speshul snowflakey" about those who claim their god requires something specific and extra-obviously-devout of them, but doesn't expect the same of anyone else.

[kunoichi66]

Your definition of paganism seems pretty broad. Is that standard? I am honestly asking, no snark. Does paganism just mean polytheism? What's the standard?

I would call all of those pagan religions, yes. I don't know if there is a universal standard.

And as for ethically sound religions, will you knock it off? Just because a woman covers her hair doesn't mean she is being forced to.

[Alecto]

Neo-paganism is not Paganism. Paganism pretty much covers any non-monotheistic religion with tribal roots.

Within modern paganism there is neo-Paganism (Wicca, "eclectic pagans," ect) as well as traditional Paganism (living tribal religions) and Reconstructionist Paganism (reconstructing ancient tribal beliefs such as Semetic, Asatru, Theodism, Romantic, Hellenic, Kemetic)

There are huge differences in all three subcategories.

[Cran]

I've read of several pagan woman who have this desire to veil. While I think it's a bit overboard to say things like "the Goddess put in on my heart blabla" instead of simply saying "I feel drawn to it for reason x", I can understand it. My hair is special to me, I try to grow it as long as possible and put much time into caring for it, and sometimes, I want it protected, and I like the look of mantillas, so if I feel like it, I wear one.

In many cultures, the feminine hair is an integral part of feminine power, so I imagine some pagan women might also take special pride in their hair as a symbol of their own spiritual power and might want to treat it in a special way.

Without a set rules of believes and practices in paganism, I see this as perfectly valid.

[tacky]

It really reminds me of the legalism of fundie Christians who headcover and are dresses only, minus the "You're all going to hell because you don't do it like I do it." If it makes them happy and they're not trying to shove their convictions on everyone else, I don't see any harm in it.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

The second reason is tied up in what covering means for me. I once heard somewhere (no idea where, now) that the reason Jewish men cover their heads is to remind them that there's something above and beyond them that needs to be paid attention to. That idea stuck with me, and eventually gained itself a comfortable place within my ideology. I often told myself that I wanted to be a more spiritual person, to have a personal revival, so to speak. But I would tell myself and tell myself and do nothing about it. No refocus, nothing.

But when I cover, it's like there's another layer between me and the stressful world. I have no doubt that some of that is because I feel the additional strength of my deities when I cover, or at least have that reminder that they're there and can lend me strength. Thus with a simple piece of cloth over my head to remind me of that, the world doesn't seem like such a scary place. Tasks seem less hard, being among people seems less daunting.

It seems like she has thought this out and there is not a single word about submission or hiding her beauty as motivations, so, more power to her if that's what she wants to do.

[Conuly]

The second reason is tied up in what covering means for me. I once heard somewhere (no idea where, now) that the reason Jewish men cover their heads is to remind them that there's something above and beyond them that needs to be paid attention to. That idea stuck with me, and eventually gained itself a comfortable place within my ideology. I often told myself that I wanted to be a more spiritual person, to have a personal revival, so to speak. But I would tell myself and tell myself and do nothing about it. No refocus, nothing.

At which point is it no longer appropriation, though? "Even though I'm totally not Jewish and don't claim to be, I'm making up my religious custom based on what I heard is the reason for covering the head as some Jews do" sounds no different to me from Christians throwing Seders with Jesus-symbolism, but while the latter is resoundly mocked around here you're presenting this as carefully thought out.

(And actually, that's a serious question. IS there a point when taking a custom from another people is okay? When is it okay and when isn't it?)

[salsa]

Yes some Pagans do headcoverings, hey I even know of several Pagan nuns who essentially live a life dedicated to their patron diety. I also know several godspouses or otherwise godtouched people whose dieties require they wear only certain colors, eat only certain foods, get certain tattoos, wear certain jewelry or hairstyles and a whole host of other things.

(side-topic) I've often wondered how they determine these things. Are there writings I'm unfamiliar with that would suggest the practices or is it all in the spiritual realm, say, as a result of prayer? (I'm thinking along the lines of the Koran or Bible or Talmud). Serious question; not bait.

[MamaJunebug]

It seems like she has thought this out and there is not a single word about submission or hiding her beauty as motivations, so, more power to her if that's what she wants to do.

Exactly my thoughts, Glass Cowcatcher!

[margiebargie]

Yeah, well, my deity says I can only smoke certain weed out of a certain bong. Neither the green nor the glass are of the cheap variety. Don't worry, though, God says everyone else is fine smoking schwag in rolling papers.

Something seems "speshul snowflakey" about those who claim their god requires something specific and extra-obviously-devout of them, but doesn't expect the same of anyone else.

My gawd is partial to bloody marys. What can I do? I am compelled to go along.

[margiebargie]

It seems like she has thought this out and there is not a single word about submission or hiding her beauty as motivations, so, more power to her if that's what she wants to do.

I suppose. But you can't deny that covering women is associated with some very backward, cruel, and abusive belief systems. Her motivation might be different, but it probably won't be read that way by a typical bystander on the street. Just sayin'.

She has the right to do whatever she wants. I'd never try to stop her. But she can't escape the fact that her headcovering will probably be mistaken as support for the horrible belief systems mentioned above.

[NjoyingNsanity]

There are a whole truckload of religions as old or older than the ones based on the god of the Torah, Bible, Koran and book of Mormon. The Jewish faith the oldest of the religions based on belief in this god stole plenty from surrounding cultures thats why the story of Noah sounds suspiciously like the Epic of Gilgamish. There is some evidence that the Egyptians beat the Hebrews to monotheism, and that Moses got the idea for monotheism from the Amarna hearesy started by pharoah Amenhotep who briefly changed the religion of Egyptian to Atenism.

Christianity is an even bigger thief and in reality is far more Pagan than most Christians would care to admit. The names of the week come the Norse and Roman gods. The word hell actually comes from the Norse goddess of death Hel and her land of the dead known as Helheim. To go to Hel once simply meant to die. The true name for the fiery abyss most Christians believe in is actually Gehenna. Even Jesus, birth, death and resurrection is borrowed from paganism. The Virgin Mother and Queen of Heaven ideas also borrowed look up Isis and Osiris, Simiramis/Tammuz Hertha, Disa, Fortuna and Jupiter, Shing Moo and many, many others. Paganism is honestly far older than Christianity and before the forced Christianization of many countries Pagan gods were worshiped just as legitimately as God/Allah and Jesus.

[Witsec7]

My gawd is partial to bloody marys. What can I do? I am compelled to go along.

My deity says I should be partaking of both these sacraments, unfortunately I must use an automobile, so I will delay my worship service until a bit later.