Revolt against artificial contraception/Safe sex {merged}

[AnnieC 305]

I've got a challenge for him...

What if The Pill makes you more fertile, not less?

Because the only time I ever got knocked up was when I was on the pill. And I managed it five times. (Unfortunately said Pill wasn't strong enough to maintain the pregnancy any of those times, but I did conceive.)

[penguinagogo]

patronising git

but its natural...

http://xkcd.com/674/

[Sumeri]

I've got a challenge for him...

What if The Pill makes you more fertile, not less?

Because the only time I ever got knocked up was when I was on the pill. And I managed it five times. (Unfortunately said Pill wasn't strong enough to maintain the pregnancy any of those times, but I did conceive.)

Me too. In fact, two of those pill babies are sleeping under my roof right now. But fertility runs strong and deep in my family. I shudder to think what could have happened if I went the quiverfull route - no, wait - I know what would happen. I'd have my house paid for by TLC.

[MonkeyMomma]

Because I do actually love my wife, I don’t think I could ask her to run the risk (however small it may be) of taking something that intentionally disrupts the natural processes of her body and could harm her. Call me old-fashioned, but I want only good things for my wife, even at the risk of causing myself “inconvenience.†And sure, getting pregnant and raising a kid may very well be, to some, inconvenient, expensive, hard, and maddening at times, but it’s a hell of a lot better than being dead. It also offers the convenient advantage of helping us reproduce our race. As a human, I have a slightly-biased, vested interest in the propagation of other humans

What an entitled, self-centered so-and-so. Dude, your wife getting pregnant may be an "inconvenience" to you (oh, call the wahmbulance). But for her, it may have lasting health effects. And the side effects Maul the Koala listed. Oh, and she might just not want to get pregnant right now. Imagine that, a woman might have desires about what goes on in her own body, regardless of what this obnoxious little shit has to say.

[thoughtful]

I always want to say this to people who think women should be barefoot and pregnant because it's "natural" --

"It is hard to take this kind of tsk-tsking from someone wearing manufactured clothing (that probably contains some polyester, spandex and/or nylon), who probably drove a car, ate food from the refrigerator, and used indoor plumbing that day, and who is telling me what to do via TV, radio or computer."

If he wants things all-natural, he can go live naked in a cave, preferably without his wife.

[Wolfie]

I can just imagine this conversation, were it to be held candidly, with my wife:

Me: Oh honey, I just love you so much I want to have sex with you.

Wife: Oh that’s great, I want to do that, too.  Good thing we’re eating natural, hormone-free food, so we’re healthy enough for sex!

Me: Yeah… about that.  Sex is great and all, and I love you a whole bunch, but… would you mind taking this pill?  It will just put a few artificial hormones in your body to make sure you don’t get pregnant.  That way, we can have sex but not be bothered with that magical human factory you have in there!

Wife: Is there some other way?  What about Natural Family Planning?

Me: What about it?  Sure, it’s natural, highly effective, and works with the body’s natural cycles to determine fertility, but… sweetie, it’s a LOT of work, and then we’ll have to talk ALL. THE. TIME.  Plus then there are a few days in a month where we couldn’t have sex whenever we felt like it.  Is that really what you want?  Me to work hard and communicate with you?  Self control?  Come on, honey… it’s just sex!  It’s not that special anymore… that’s a draconian mindset our parents had!  Besides, what’s the worst that could happen with this pill thing anyway?  Heart attack, stroke, nausea, migraines, pulmonary embolism, death… they don’t happen all that often – the odds are in your favor!  AND, this pill might even slightly reduce your chances of other cancers.  Plus your skin will look great!

Hmmm, there are a LOT of people who eat all organic, won't take any other meds, but WILL take BC.

And I'm going to vote that this guy isn't married, who the hell talks down to their wife like that? And what woman doesn't already know about BC in some manner. (And Catholic women don't tend to be as isolated as some fundies.)

[Minerva]

Hmmm, there are a LOT of people who eat all organic, won't take any other meds, but WILL take BC.

And I'm going to vote that this guy isn't married, who the hell talks down to their wife like that? And what woman doesn't already know about BC in some manner. (And Catholic women don't tend to be as isolated as some fundies.)

If he's got a whole website dedicated to talking down to strange women on the internet, I can't imagine how he'd talk to his wife.

And who, besides the obvious strawman Dude has invoked, believes sex being special is a draconian mindset? I think sex is special, Hell I know it is seeing as I've had a lot of it. It's so special that only I can decide how much of it I have, when and with whom. And in my case, I deem it's specialness worthy of me having a lot of it. And it's excellent with condoms, thanks. Less clean up.

Another thing, I know several vagina-having people for whom sex leads to chronic infections unless they use condoms. I'm curious what Dude would have to say to that.

[mirele]

I'd like to take this young man on a walk through an old graveyard and point out the tombstones of women who died during delivery. There are so many. Maternal and infant mortality was terrible prior to modern medicine.

I'd also like to add that these people make me stabby. It's like they think of women as fuckable containers for their sperm. No Thanks. And you know, a vitamin supplement makes up for any lack of zinc in my diet.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So much logic fail, so little time....

Let's start with the fact that divorce laws were changed in several states, including California, during this time period to allow for no-fault divorce. Japan is an entirely different society, with different laws and a different culture, so the comparison is bogus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_d ... es_history

Add to that the "children keep couples together" line. Sure, a couple may feel compelled to stay together if they have children since it means child support, custody battle and the practical difficulties of single parenting and paying for two separate households - but honestly, that sounds like an argument FOR birth control. What he's really saying is "children are likely to make you feel trapped in a shitty marriage, since the divorce will be more hellish and leave you broke". Not a fun situation for either parent, and certainly not a great situation for the children unfortunate enough to be caught in the middle.

The argument that NFP is associated with lower divorce is also bullshit. Using NFP and being opposed to divorce are both part of following strict Catholic doctrine. If someone is religious enough to commit to NFP - which requires considerably more effort than other BC methods and isn't as reliable - then they are probably religious enough to believe that divorce is a sin, to be avoided at all costs. Merely counting folks who identify as Catholic is useless, since you have no idea if they strictly follow church teachings. It would be like arguing that eating bacon is related to getting into car crashes on Saturdays - bacon doesn't cause car crashes, but a strictly observant Orthodox Jew will neither eat bacon nor drive on Saturday before nightfall.

Finally, I'm not sure how NFP is associated with "great sex" when sexual desire and lubrication generally spike around ovulation.

[Maul the Koala]

The site has made Jezebel. Cue the 'woe is me!!!'' post.

[PennySycamore]

This quote makes me fucking livid:

I've read the study and while it's an interesting possible correlation, it's not nearly as strong as this site's authors make it out to be. Even if it was, it would only explain/prevent half of the cases of what is one of the most common and deadly pregnancy complications. Yay, let's blame women for pre-eclampsia even though medical science is unsure exactly what causes it and has no good way to prevent it! If they just didn't use evil condoms then all would have been well. :roll:

I had pre-eclampsia after my husband and I had been intimate for 9 years, roughly 6 years of which was condom-free (I was on the Pill). We also obviously didn't use them during my pregnancy. WWe used them for a couple of years before we tried for a baby and we're using them between babies. My OBGYN said that I have such a strong family history of the condition that there's really very little I can do to prevent recurrence in a future pregnancy especially since medicine only knows what constitutes risk factors and not yet what causes pre-eclampsia. If it happens again, it happens, and we manage it as best we can.

This site is done by Catholics who are very pro-NFP. I have no issue with NFP if the couple involved chooses to use it. I've done fertility charting with a barrier method backup for some time and it's quite effective in many cases. But I do have a problem with a bunch of college-aged hipster Catholics trying to tell me and my husband what we should be doing in the privacy of our own bedroom.

Didn't JChelle have pre-eclampsia not once, but at last twice? And did not those cases of pre-eclampsia occur after she and Boob went quiverfull? I wonder what they ought to blame her pre-eclampsia on.

[thoughtful]

Didn't JChelle have pre-eclampsia not once, but at last twice? And did not those cases of pre-eclampsia occur after she and Boob went quiverfull? I wonder what they ought to blame her pre-eclampsia on.

62Qfbrc1jdo

[FakePigtails]

1flesh.org's response to Jezebel: http://www.1flesh.org/in-response-to-jezebel/

To be honest, I didn't even try more than skimming it but thought it may be of interest here anyway.

[Minerva]

1flesh.org's response to Jezebel: http://www.1flesh.org/in-response-to-jezebel/

To be honest, I didn't even try more than skimming it but thought it may be of interest here anyway.

His butthurt is tangible. To his credit, he actually used a meme correctly. He can claim to be on the same page as Jezebel all he wants, but he's still a cis dude telling us how we should feel about contraceptive options. That's condescending as fuck. Throwing in the word "choices" doesn't change a thing about his actual message.

[Anise]

Re: "natural" birthcontrol

Why is abstinence natural? Is it natural for mates not to have sex?

Also, are honey and sheep intestines "unnatural"? People in ancient Egypt used honey as a spermicide, and sheep intestines were used for condoms in the Middle Ages. Also, copper is pretty natural, and it makes a damn good IUD these days.

[julie paradox]

So do zinc supplements.

OK, so... part of his argument against using condoms is that the woman's fertility level might be lower.

Dude, it's a feature, not a bug.

[adidas]

I've been worried about her too. I hope it's just because she's focusing on her book (but then we'll have to buy the book to get her funnies and so many people will miss out).

quoting myself to give an update:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comme ... ith_allie/

I'm so sad to hear how bad it got for her, but I'm happy that she's now on meds.

[mirele]

quoting myself to give an update:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comme ... ith_allie/

I'm so sad to hear how bad it got for her, but I'm happy that she's now on meds.

Wow, I so understand where she's coming from and she's on meds. I resisted medication for a long time, but those pills are what gave me back my life.

[mirele]

quoting myself to give an update:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comme ... ith_allie/

I'm so sad to hear how bad it got for her, but I'm happy that she's now on meds.

Wow, I so understand where she's coming from and she's on meds. I resisted medication for a long time, but those pills are what gave me back my life.

[desertvixen]

I think sex is special, Hell I know it is seeing as I've had a lot of it. It's so special that only I can decide how much of it I have, when and with whom. And in my case, I deem it's specialness worthy of me having a lot of it.

This. Even with my committed partner, we're not in a place yet where a baby would not be a good thing - largely because we're separated by most of the US - so I'll get all my artificial hormones via patch for now, thank you very much.

[doggie]

Well since they are a youth group what the hell do they know about sex? Pretty much everything has been debunked and it really is stay a virgin message crap.

I love this quote

There is no God.

It's a lie that smart people made up to control "slower" people's lives and take their money.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emma-gray ... 52995.html

[Maul the Koala]

I started a thread on that website here

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11254

[doggie]

oops I saw that thread and was thinking it was about another group. silly me.

[Anise]

And they wonder why people who take purity pledges and exposed to abstinence only sex-ed are so likely to get STDs. :roll:

[Witsec7]

And they wonder why people who take purity pledges and exposed to abstinence only sex-ed are so likely to get STDs. :roll:

A longitudinal data study in my DDs school district showed that the purity pledge kids had 90% more STDs and pregnancies over kids who received comprehensive sex ed at home and were taught safe sex by their parents.

My daughter was raised in a culture of safe sex, and options outside of intercourse for sexual gratification. As a result, I'm not raising grandchildren in my retirement and my daughter has a successful career. At the age of 27 some of those purity minded girls she went to school with are on kid #5.