Revolt against artificial contraception/Safe sex {merged}

[Maul the Koala]

Has this been discussed before?

1flesh.org/

Great topics include how condoms ruin sex!!!

1flesh.org/argument_page/condoms-ruin-sex/

And contraception increases divorce rates!!!

1flesh.org/argument_page/contraception-divorce/

Now look. I understand hormonal contraception isn't for everyone but this site is completely ridiculous. There are so many reasons that the divorce rate climbed around the time that hormonal contraception came into being. Way too complex to reduce it down to hormonal contraception. And condoms ruining sex? I know a lot of people dislike relying on condoms alone but calling semen an antidepressant isn't making me want to go out and have lots of unprotected sex to cure my depression.

1flesh.org/rebellion/

How is having unprotected sex having sex free from fear? I'm dead serious. My friend and I were discussing this and the number of people we know that have cheated within a relationship is sadly pretty high. So just having one sexual partner doesn't mean you're protected from STIs. I know they discuss natural family planning but that's not a one size fits all situation either.

Ugh

[Katiebug]

This quote makes me fucking livid:

Similarly, it was shown that barrier methods of birth control may contribute to as much as 60% of preeclampsia cases — when a pregnant woman develops high blood pressure and protein in the urine after the 20th week of pregnancy.

I've read the study and while it's an interesting possible correlation, it's not nearly as strong as this site's authors make it out to be. Even if it was, it would only explain/prevent half of the cases of what is one of the most common and deadly pregnancy complications. Yay, let's blame women for pre-eclampsia even though medical science is unsure exactly what causes it and has no good way to prevent it! If they just didn't use evil condoms then all would have been well. :roll:

I had pre-eclampsia after my husband and I had been intimate for 9 years, roughly 6 years of which was condom-free (I was on the Pill). We also obviously didn't use them during my pregnancy. WWe used them for a couple of years before we tried for a baby and we're using them between babies. My OBGYN said that I have such a strong family history of the condition that there's really very little I can do to prevent recurrence in a future pregnancy especially since medicine only knows what constitutes risk factors and not yet what causes pre-eclampsia. If it happens again, it happens, and we manage it as best we can.

This site is done by Catholics who are very pro-NFP. I have no issue with NFP if the couple involved chooses to use it. I've done fertility charting with a barrier method backup for some time and it's quite effective in many cases. But I do have a problem with a bunch of college-aged hipster Catholics trying to tell me and my husband what we should be doing in the privacy of our own bedroom.

[MonkeyMomma]

I wonder how Hyperbole and a Half feels about her image being used on this page: http://www.1flesh.org/category/arguments/

Should we alert her?

[jesssnerch]

I wonder how Hyperbole and a Half feels about her image being used on this page: http://www.1flesh.org/category/arguments/

Should we alert her?

YES!

ETA: I sent her an email.

[MonkeyMomma]

I'm also sick and tired of the "birth control destroys the environment" "argument" running around. Why address the very real environmental impacts of agricultural and industrial runoff when you can blame teh womenz?

[MonkeyMomma]

YES!

ETA: I sent her an email.

Me too. :)

[bananacat]

I'm also sick and tired of the "birth control destroys the environment" "argument" running around. Why address the very real environmental impacts of agricultural and industrial runoff when you can blame teh womenz?

You know what really destroys the environment? Overpopulation. People need food to live and tons of habitats are destroyed to make farmland. And these people probably don't even believe in global warming. They only pretend to care about the environment when it suits their needs, but they don't actually care.

[Maul the Koala]

YES!

ETA: I sent her an email.

Oooooh, that's a good idea.

Bananacat, they also deem overpopulation as a myth!!!1111!!!

Edit: the Hyperbole and a Half picture was removed.

[StarrieEyedKat]

I wonder how Hyperbole and a Half feels about her image being used on this page: http://www.1flesh.org/category/arguments/

Should we alert her?

Which image is Allie's?

[Maul the Koala]

Which image is Allie's?

It was removed. Let me see if I can find an archive of the page.

[StarrieEyedKat]

It was removed. Let me see if I can find an archive of the page.

Damn, that was fast!

[Hane]

YES!

ETA: I sent her an email.

Where has she been? I've been very worried about her since her "Adventures in Depression" posting, and everything I've found about her online seems to be at least a year old. I hope she's not battling serious illness. Too many of the funniest, most insightful people I've ever known have suffered from bipolar disorder.

[Maul the Koala]

http://www.google.ca/search?q=1flesh.or ... 2AXU_NivAQ

Second picture. I'm surprised at how fast it was removed. Wonder if the webmaster of that site is reading here.

Hane, she's been busy writing her book I believe.

[FlorenceHamilton]

This quote makes me fucking livid:

I've read the study and while it's an interesting possible correlation, it's not nearly as strong as this site's authors make it out to be. Even if it was, it would only explain/prevent half of the cases of what is one of the most common and deadly pregnancy complications. Yay, let's blame women for pre-eclampsia even though medical science is unsure exactly what causes it and has no good way to prevent it! If they just didn't use evil condoms then all would have been well. :roll:

I had pre-eclampsia after my husband and I had been intimate for 9 years, roughly 6 years of which was condom-free (I was on the Pill). We also obviously didn't use them during my pregnancy. WWe used them for a couple of years before we tried for a baby and we're using them between babies. My OBGYN said that I have such a strong family history of the condition that there's really very little I can do to prevent recurrence in a future pregnancy especially since medicine only knows what constitutes risk factors and not yet what causes pre-eclampsia. If it happens again, it happens, and we manage it as best we can.

This site is done by Catholics who are very pro-NFP. I have no issue with NFP if the couple involved chooses to use it. I've done fertility charting with a barrier method backup for some time and it's quite effective in many cases. But I do have a problem with a bunch of college-aged hipster Catholics trying to tell me and my husband what we should be doing in the privacy of our own bedroom.

I am just taking a guess here. Correlation does not mean causation. My guess is that a significant percentage of couples who use barrier methods of birth control as opposed to hormal methods do so because the woman has some health related risk of using hormonal methods. It turns out that the very conditions that increase the risk of hormonal birth control also increase the risk of ecclampsia/preeclampsia.

[Minerva]

I wouldn't trust anyone so obviously lacking in a science background to interpret a study correctly, let alone advise me on contraception.

Pretty much the entire content of the site is ridiculous enough that most mainstream people will spot the stupid right away. This is the case with most science-denying fundy sites - they exist solely to misinform people who are already living in a bubble, which just seems cruel and predatory.

The design of the site is horrendous. Whoever's running it is trying way too hard to seem hip. It's just so over-the-top, and the misused memes...so many misused memes...I don't think I saw one that was used correctly. It's like they're trying to be so many clashing things and failing at all of them. Someone please tell them no one takes medical advice from a site that looks like a cross between a 9 year-old girl's blog and an online sex shop.

There is no revolt against contraception. People compare the risks and costs to the benefits and, after discussing it with their doctor, select a method with the smallest risks and costs vs. the greatest benefits for them. The common sense-flouting pseudo-sociological theories of a few fundies masquerading as hipsters on the internet aren't going to change that.

[Rowan]

“not only were females who were having sex without condoms less depressed, but depressive symptoms and suicide attempts among females who used condoms were proportional to the consistency of condom use.†Semen contains a hormone called prostaglandin, and the female genital tract absorbs this hormone. The greater the amount absorbed, the lower the rate of depression.

Ok, so the cure to get me out of this current depressed funk I'm in is unprotected sex? Great!

Oh wait, one of the contributing factors to the depression is that I've been single for a very long time (and seeing no end in sight). Drunken one night stands? :dance: um, right. :doh:

[MonkeyMomma]

Damn, that was fast!

Good. Whether they read it here or got shit from Allie after being alerted by us, I'm glad it's off there. They don't get to steal people's art in a poor attempt to be relevant.

[MonkeyMomma]

Also, for a group that rails against the "objectification" of women by using contraception, they sure use a lot of space to objectify women. (Eg. "pretty ladies," "gorgeous girl," etc.)

[FakePigtails]

I really wish these people would respect that I know what's best for my body and my marriage and leave me the fuck alone about how I'm supposedly destroying myself and my marriage.

[Minerva]

Ok, so the cure to get me out of this current depressed funk I'm in is unprotected sex? Great!

Oh wait, one of the contributing factors to the depression is that I've been single for a very long time (and seeing no end in sight). Drunken one night stands? :dance: um, right. :doh:

If you're going to advocate for the prostaglandins in semen to be used to cure depression*, why not make oral sex your first suggestion? It's lower risk, and studies suggest that prostaglandins are absorbed as well if not better through the gut than through the vagina.

*Note that this in itself is shitty advice to be giving the public. People with depression should see a doctor, not ingest semen, and there are a ton of lifestyle/medical factors that are way more likely to contribute to your risk of depression than how much semen touches your mucous membranes.

[ShadowyOne]

There's so much yuck, bad science, and bad logic on that site I don't even know where to go with it. However, I will note that though I was too late to catch the stolen Hyperbole pic, I am very puzzled by the Neil Patrick Harris pic (also on the "arguments" page) representing "birth control does not reduce unplanned pregnancies." I am not a religious follower (hee, hee, that was unintentional, but I'm leaving it in) of "How I Met Your Mother," but I don't believe the Barney character has ever caused any unplanned pregnancies on the show, despite his promiscuity. And it's even more confusing because NPH is gay, and his own kids were very intentional.

[The Larch]

There's so much yuck, bad science, and bad logic on that site I don't even know where to go with it. However, I will note that though I was too late to catch the stolen Hyperbole pic, I am very puzzled by the Neil Patrick Harris pic (also on the "arguments" page) representing "birth control does not reduce unplanned pregnancies." I am not a religious follower (hee, hee, that was unintentional, but I'm leaving it in) of "How I Met Your Mother," but I don't believe the Barney character has ever caused any unplanned pregnancies on the show, despite his promiscuity. And it's even more confusing because NPH is gay, and his own kids were very intentional.

They're going for the "true story" meme...

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/true-story

[Rosa]

People with depression should see a doctor, not ingest semen,

I just love the existence of this sentence.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

The thing about this kind of argument is that, even if there is SOME risk to women's health from birth control, it's so, so, so much less than what pregnancy after unintended pregnancy would do.

Gory details currently being discussed [link=http://freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11229]here.[/link]

[Katiebug]

The kicker of the whole "semen exposure = lower preeclampsia risk for some" is that the most recent studies have shown that the most effective means of inducing immune tolerance to the intended father of a child is through, um, oral administration. :lol: That particular act is verboten according to the traditional/fundamentalist Catholic set.

Also, the study related to condom use clearly wasn't even read by the hipster Catholics, they just read a PubMed abstract and then decided they know lots about Science and Statistics and Everything. The study in question related to duration of cohabitation and found that there was only an elevated risk for those with less than 4 months of cohabitation and who were using a barrier method (not just condoms, also diaphragms and caps). More recent studies have shown NO link between exposure to parental semen and development of preeclampsia. They're cherrypicking the studies to get the answer they want. No doctors out there are suggesting to young healthy women that they expose themselves to their partner's semen in order to avoid a pregnancy complication that most will not experience anyways!

Most preeclampsia risk factors have nothing to do with anything that the woman can control (obesity is really the only one). It's now being considered a syndrome rather than a disease because it appears to potentially have multiple causes. I just hate some idiot claiming that using NFP could have prevented a frightening pregnancy complication, when in many cases it's likely not at all related to a given woman's development of the condition. You can feel so guilty when you have a pregnancy complication even when by all accounts you can't do anything about the risk, and these asshats are saying I could have prevented it by following their church's teachings on birth control? Sorry, dude - I listen to my doctor on that one.