Franklin Graham makes ass of himself about Carrie Fisher and George Michael

[47of74]

Yep, figures some fuckhead fundie "pastor" would say stupid shit like this...

patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/12/28/franklin-graham-carrie-fisher-and-george-michael-are-in-hell-unless-they-accepted-jesus/

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Professional killjoy and Christian evangelist Franklin Graham wants you to know that actress Carrie Fisher and singer George Michael are burning in Hell right now. That is, unless they accepted Jesus on their deathbeds.

"This week pop icon George Michael passed away at age 53, Star Wars actress Carrie Fisher died at 60, and award winning Watership Down author Richard Adams died at the age of 96… each of us will stand before Almighty God to give an account. The decision that will determine where we spend eternity is whether we have believed in His Son, Jesus Christ, trusting Him as our Savior and following Him as Lord… I hope each of these people had made that all-important decision before they took their last breath on earth — Have you? If you haven’t, call on Him today. Don’t delay."

This isn’t even typical Franklin Graham, the guy known for making absurd, over-the-top pronouncements. This is standard Christian fare. Even your kind Christian neighbors likely believe that Fisher, Michael, Anne Frank, Mahatma Gandhi, and everyone else who didn’t accept Christ during their lives are being tortured for all eternity — no matter how much good they did in the world.

These people really piss me off. 

[FloraKitty35]

Franklin Graham is an ass, he doesn't have to make one of himself, he was born that way.

[purjolok84]

These people can't ever help themselves, can they? It's not enough that someone has died, they have the gall to gloat about it under the excuse of proselytising to the masses. Not only is it not very Christian behaviour, it's completely tactless.

[MamaJunebug]

Guy has no chance at class. His father -- yes, Billy Graham -- told one of his daughters to quit college at age 17 so she could marry the son of a very rich patron. She did and one of the sons she had with the guy is Tullian Tchvidjian, who's been defrocked after his history of serial adultery with parishioners. The whole family is stupid. 

[PennySycamore]

35 minutes ago, FloraKitty35 said:

Franklin Graham is an ass. 

That is the understatement of the century!

Attitudes like Franklin Graham's was one of the things that led me to question Christianity.  

[December]

Wouldn't it be enough to wish that these people are at peace?

But that wouldn't help divert attention to him from these sad but unrelated losses.

1 hour ago, FloraKitty35 said:

Franklin Graham is an ass, he doesn't have to make one of himself, he was born that way.

 

Based on his views, I think it'd be more appropriate to say it is his lifestyle choice...

[Percy]

George Michael acted in a very 'christian' manner his whole career.  Starting with including his Wham co star on his writing credits.  He donated time and money to charity and paid for IVF for a stranger.  He visited hospitals all under the radar so the focus was not on him.

Billie Lourd has lost a mother and a grandmother in the space of a day.  I don't know if her father is still alive.  I would think a true Christian would be offering support and prayers right now.

Just another example of a so called Christian not following Christs words.  ( I am not sure what I believe these days, but I think actions speak louder than words)

[hoipolloi]

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And each of us will stand before Almighty God to give an account. 

Astounding how these asshats never see themselves standing before God to give an account of their loathsome & vile lives.

Franklin Graham is a fucking monster and appears to have spawned another monster in Tullian Tchvidjian.

What did Franklin learn or absorb from being raised by Billy & Ruth Graham -- are he & Tullian the products of nature or nuture?

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

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[AmazonGrace]

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[Bretta]

Hmm. Within an evangelical context that's what they say all the time. Is Franklin Graham fundie or evangelical ?

[Lurky]

8 hours ago, purjolok84 said:

These people can't ever help themselves, can they? It's not enough that someone has died, they have the gall to gloat about it under the excuse of proselytising to the masses. Not only is it not very Christian behaviour, it's completely tactless.

What I don't understand is what the endgame is?  Of course it makes him and the members of his sect feel smug, because they're so much better than the evil sinners, but it's like the opposite of evangelism.  Fans of Fisher, Michael or Adams, who aren't Christian, and are feeling sad, aren't going to see this and think "Oh, maybe I should find out a bit more about Christianity", they'll just think "what an absolute ass, he makes Church sound horrible" and put on another movie/album/pick up a book and remember the good especially Fisher and Michael did.

 

 

[purjolok84]

What I don't understand is what the endgame is?  Of course it makes him and the members of his sect feel smug, because they're so much better than the evil sinners, but it's like the opposite of evangelism.  Fans of Fisher, Michael or Adams, who aren't Christian, and are feeling sad, aren't going to see this and think "Oh, maybe I should find out a bit more about Christianity", they'll just think "what an absolute ass, he makes Church sound horrible" and put on another movie/album/pick up a book and remember the good especially Fisher and Michael did.
 
 

I don't think there's any critical thinking. All people like Franklin can understand is that Christian = Spreading the WORD = Job DONE!

There's no thought about difference of people he talks to, or that certain people will have done things or experienced life in a different way. There's no kindness, no thought to even thinking that others may need to be treated gently. If those people are not Christian, then. they. don't. matter. Unless they can be converted to his satisfaction.

[SweetLaurel]

I read Ruth's autobiography years ago.  The only thing I remember from it is once as a young mom - she had one of those mornings, where you had a bad night and didn't brush your hair or shower, and are in your bathrobe and plopping food in front of the kids anyway.   Franklin filled his diaper at the table, and her daughter said something like "Mommy, between looking at you and smelling Franklin I can't eat a thing!"    Apparently Franklin still stinks.  

Why do so many of them think women should win them without a word, and be meek and sweet, but listen to the guys being flat out mean and cruel and think they are wonderful and wise?  Are men not smart enough to win without a word or what's the deal?    

[Howl]

The good brother, Boz Tchividjian, founded GRACE (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment) to help churches confront sex abuse in their congregations and pastors, but GRACE also works with much larger institutions, such as Bob Young University. From the Grace wiki: 

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GRACE (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment) is a Virginia 501(c)(3) non-profit organization formed by Basyle "Boz" Tchividjian to assist evangelical groups in confronting sexual abuse, particularly child sexual abuse, within their organizations. Tchividjian is the grandson of Billy Graham and a law professor at Liberty University, who formerly worked as a prosecutor on sexual abuse cases.

From what I hear (mostly via Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board and Homeschoolers Anonymous) they do excellent work.  

This New York Times article about the Bob Young University investigation by GRACE shows the brutally retrograde policies and beliefs about sex abuse and sex crimes that exist with many fundamentalist institutions, their stubborn resistance to change, and GRACE's ability to plow through the bull shit. 

But back to Franklin Graham and his ilk -- they just never grokked the New Testament and Jesus. And speaking of similar ilk -- this is so John Shrader -- telling one of his disciples converts indentured workers that his relatives were burning in a lake o' fire because they didn't believe God in the right way.  These people can preach, pray, teach and rant from the pulpit, write books and hold conferences and be telegenic out the kazoo, but they are never deeply transformed by the words and works of Jesus.  This merciless quality seems to extend to other aspects of their  lives as well.  

I found this article (Graham's daughter addresses gritty issues) that talks primarily about Billy Graham's third daughter, Ruth, who had some major life struggles (marital infidelity, depression, a five-week second marriage), along with her children (teen pregnancies, bulimia).  She sounds a lot nicer than Franklin.  

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"Once we're in the church, we pretend all the sinners are on the outside," she said. "We want to keep the rules, and, when we can't, we become shameful and pretend we have it all together."

Graham is trying to educate others through her "Get Growing" conferences, including a recent one in Nashville that drew about 400 people. (None is scheduled in Columbus.)

The events address troubles such as addiction, depression, eating disorders, marital infidelity, divorce, pornography, anger and loneliness.

"The world is tired of plastic Christians," she said. "I was tired of being a plastic Christian. I told everybody I had it all together, and I was falling apart. And I was scared to death to tell somebody."

And this

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Graham, who received psychological counseling after her second divorce, says in her workshops that some Christians might need therapy in addition to spiritual counseling.

!

OK, the five kids of Billy and Ruth Graham are a huge rabbit hole all on their own.  I'm up early and alone unsupervised with the google.  I don't have the advanced math to calculate the total number of marriages among the siblings.  Not sure DSM-III covers it all.  Anyway, a brief bio for each kid here. 

[lawfulevil]

ELEVEN.

3 for Virginia (Tchividjian, Foreman, Wilson). She was accused of domestic abuse of #2.

1 for Anne, but she was widowed in 2015, so it's not too late.

4 for Ruth and she picks real winners ("In 2009, she married a fourth time to a former minister who was being tried for possession of child pornography").

1 for Franklin (but with persistent rumors about infidelity and alcoholism).

2 for Ned (wife #1 divorced him for infidelity, drugs/alcohol abuse, and domestic violence).

I didn't look very hard but it seems like the grand-kids have their fair share of fuck-ups too. Why is it always the most stunningly unsuccessful parents who feel the need to tell everyone else they're Doing It Wrong?

 

[mango_fandango]

Didn't Anne Frank mention God a few times in her diary? Oh well, she was Jewish so it doesn't count. 

[Cleopatra7]

7 hours ago, Lurky said:

What I don't understand is what the endgame is?  Of course it makes him and the members of his sect feel smug, because they're so much better than the evil sinners, but it's like the opposite of evangelism.  Fans of Fisher, Michael or Adams, who aren't Christian, and are feeling sad, aren't going to see this and think "Oh, maybe I should find out a bit more about Christianity", they'll just think "what an absolute ass, he makes Church sound horrible" and put on another movie/album/pick up a book and remember the good especially Fisher and Michael did.

 

 

If I was to take a guess, I would say Graham thinks that he can use these deaths to make a statement about why everyone should be his brand of fundegelical Christian, sort like how the Westboro Baptist does. I think such statements are less about attracting the unchurched (who will probably be repelled by such rhetoric) and more about scoring points with other fundegelicals for being hard-core and uncompromising about "the Truth."

[Howl]

3 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

If I was to take a guess, I would say Graham thinks that he can use these deaths to make a statement about why everyone should be his brand of fundegelical Christian, sort like how the Westboro Baptist does. I think such statements are less about attracting the unchurched (who will probably be repelled by such rhetoric) and more about scoring points with other fundegelicals for being hard-core and uncompromising about "the Truth."

Nailed it! 

[Rachel333]

Unless I'm missing something, he doesn't actually say they're definitely in Hell, just that everyone who dies will face God's judgement.

It's true though that this isn't anything extreme. It's a very mainstream Christian belief that all non-Christians go to Hell no matter what kind of lives they led.

[Fascinated]

20 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Unless I'm missing something, he doesn't actually say they're definitely in Hell, just that everyone who dies will face God's judgement.

It's true though that this isn't anything extreme. It's a very mainstream Christian belief that all non-Christians go to Hell no matter what kind of lives they led.

I was going to ask this. Surely, all Christians believe that the unsaved will not be accepted into heaven?  This is one of the most basics tenets of Christianity, isn't it?  I would love to know where people think heaven and hell are. I guess there is some convenient explanation of where and how these places exist. The illogicality of this concept came to me when I was still a child, and is one of the reasons I have never believe in god.

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

I'm no theologian, but I would think only God would know what was truly in your heart, so other people should shut the fuck up.  Too many Christians who think the only way is to be saved (and the more publically the better) and follow the teachings of their particular "true" way to  guarantee entry into heaven.  

I have a friend who has become one of those over zealous converts to a fundie lite church.  He has been causing great upset to his elderly parents because he keeps trying to convert them (they are bhuddist) He is almost as upset as they are because he knows they are in bad health and he thinks they are going to hell.  He said that he knows they are scared of death (his mother did say that) and   he thinks that they would find it confOrting if they knew they were going to heaven.  I guess it makes some sort of sense, but I just think it is awful to badger people into converting. Frankly, I  don't think it is very Christian of him to act this way.  Better to just honor what his parents want to do with their own beliefs. 

[Howl]

38 minutes ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

I have a friend who has become one of those over zealous converts to a fundie lite church.  He has been causing great upset to his elderly parents because he keeps trying to convert them (they are bhuddist) He is almost as upset as they are because he knows they are in bad health and he thinks they are going to hell.

When my mom was dying we were doing home hospice.  A neighbor was only too happy to provide an hour or two of respite care so I could go for a walk or run errands.  Turns out she was attempting to do a death-bed conversion on my mom, who asked that the woman never come over again. 

[PennySycamore]

@Fascinated,  some Christians do believe that there is more than one pathway to heaven, IOW, God also honors those who have lived nobly and ethically according to their own beliefs.  Some hold that people who have never heard the gospel through no fault of their own fall into this category and others are more generous in their interpretation.  The Episcopal Church, IIRC, holds with this and the Roman Catholic Church holds with the more strict interpretation.  It also advises people they are not to judge God's grace.  This is in the documents of Vatican II.

There's that old story about the Native Alaskan who on being preached at says to the missionary "You mean to tell me that if I'd never heard about Jesus then I'd be OK. but now that I've heard, I need to accept Jesus?  Why on earth did you tell me the if I'd be better off not hearing?"

[mirele]

Ugh, I absolutely hate when people try to take advantage of your bad situation and preach at you. When I was 14, my mother tried to kill herself (it's *fun* living with a paranoid schizophrenic!). After the police and the ambulance came, the next door neighbor came over and took us to her house to await the arrival of my father. My brother (10) was absorbed in watching TV, my sister (12) was practically catatonic, and so I was the one who got to hear about the Four Spiritual Laws which were really popular in the 1970s (thank you ever so much, Bill Bright). I didn't want to hear the Four Spiritual Laws, I wanted to hear that my mother was going to live. She did, but I've been pissed off ever since then about people taking advantage of the distraught and depressed to preach at them.