Bathroom Baby 2.0? Say it ain't so!

[Bbfamteam]

The only time I've seen episiotomies done are in situations with bad shoulder dystocia. They do seem to lead to more 3rd and 4th degree tears. Back to topic: I can't bring myself to read about her torture devices to stretch the vagina... Major over share.

[jenny_islander]

Ok, not trying to fight the birth wars here, but most women do not get episiotomies in the US. In this article, which discusses rates being too high, 1/3 of women who give birth in a hospital get them. The ASOG opposes routine episiotomies. I'm not sure where your getting this notion that in 2013 most OB's are telling women they are necessary and/or routinely performing them without consent.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20050826 ... ay-experts

It may just be my local hospital then. :(

And yes, 1/3 is still too high.

[HarryPotterFan]

Anna was in the bathtub while labouring with M1, but then was transferred to bed as she was not comfortable in there.

Oh, okay. If I was Mackynzie I'd never let my little brother forget that he was born on a toilet.

Also, all this talk about tearing is making me fear childbirth even more.

[HarryPotterFan]

HarryPotterFan, It'll take you hours, but here you go

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4371&hilit=bathroom+baby

Thanks! Oy, that's just so selfish. "Oh, we need that room."

How about YOU sleep in the bathroom every night, lady?

[jenny_islander]

Oh, okay. If I was Mackynzie I'd never let my little brother forget that he was born on a toilet.

Also, all this talk about tearing is making me fear childbirth even more.

Some people never get one and many are quite mild. With my first, who came bombing out like she was trying to win a downhill ski race or something, I had "skid marks." I could have just let them heal, but I got a few dissolving stitches because they were recommended for the sake of future stretchiness. My second came even faster: not a mark on me. My third was a 12-hour labor and I had to push like hell at the end due to heart decels, but still no tearing.

The list of preventive measures I gave in an earlier post is quite effective according to my midwife. They sure helped me.

A funny story about being born on a toilet: Western-style toilet seats just happen to hit two pressure points that ease labor discomfort when someone is sitting on the toilet with knees wide apart to make room for the laboring belly. Many women find themselves needing to use the toilet a lot during labor and just sitting there afterward can seem mighty appealing. Hence toilet babies.

[ADoyle90815]

Some people never get one and many are quite mild. With my first, who came bombing out like she was trying to win a downhill ski race or something, I had "skid marks." I could have just let them heal, but I got a few dissolving stitches because they were recommended for the sake of future stretchiness. My second came even faster: not a mark on me. My third was a 12-hour labor and I had to push like hell at the end due to heart decels, but still no tearing.

The list of preventive measures I gave in an earlier post is quite effective according to my midwife. They sure helped me.

A funny story about being born on a toilet: Western-style toilet seats just happen to hit two pressure points that ease labor discomfort when someone is sitting on the toilet with knees wide apart to make room for the laboring belly. Many women find themselves needing to use the toilet a lot during labor and just sitting there afterward can seem mighty appealing. Hence toilet babies.

One thing about toilet births, is that with That Bitch, you have to hope that she doesn't give birth on the toilet where she would have Bathroom Baby 2.0 sleep in.

[emmiedahl]

Unfortunately, there is a current widespread tendency to assume that no baby can ever be born without some type of cut or injection. Most OBs actually believe this, and they tell their clients that an episiotomy is just a thing that happens. Episiotomies used to be used only when the doctor had to reach in and get the baby with forceps or some other way. Now they are so routine that some OBs don't even bother to ask for consent before they cut. But they are nearly always unnecessary surgery.

The worst OBs flat-out tell their clients that they cut because if the client happened to have a tear, it would be more tedious to stitch. But most OBs sincerely believe that the cut is needed. It isn't.

Back on topic: Wait a minute. Is T1 STILL IN THE BATHROOM? I thought he'd at least gotten a daybed in the living room or something!

I think you have it backward. They used to be routine and are no longer such a common practice.

There are some situations where they are indicated. When the baby is in distress and needs to be out quickly. They have been found to prevent some types of tearing as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8545086 Of course they come with other risks, as the link notes, and should only be used when necessary.

Doctors are not out to get you. The vast majority base their practice on a high level of medical knowledge and their own experiences as a physician. Bad physicians cutting women for no reason make up a tiny minority.

[jenny_islander]

I think you have it backward. They used to be routine and are no longer such a common practice.

There are some situations where they are indicated. When the baby is in distress and needs to be out quickly. They have been found to prevent some types of tearing as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8545086 Of course they come with other risks, as the link notes, and should only be used when necessary.

Doctors are not out to get you. The vast majority base their practice on a high level of medical knowledge and their own experiences as a physician. Bad physicians cutting women for no reason make up a tiny minority.

Then I think there is something wrong at my hospital, because the last time I heard, the local episiotomy rate was much higher than 1/3.

[ErinIsSik]

http://myobsaidwhat.com/

I'm not breaking the link, because they want the traffic. A LOT of doctors still want to do an episiotomy. True, the tides are starting to turn, but it's a still a problem.

[jenny_islander]

Anyway, back on topic: Children as accessories to the parent's image--that's a recurring theme in fundamentalism. Poor T1 was stored in the bathroom when not being used as a photo prop so he couldn't mess up his own home! But I wonder whether it would be quite as awful for some kids without the Interwebz. If T1's mom didn't have a way to pose before an audience 24/7/365, might she be a tiny bit more tolerant of the disorder little kids trail in their wake? I'm not saying that she would show him more affection or anything, but might she perhaps have given him a few more corners in the place before now?

[lilith]

It's more likely she'd ignore him even more if she wasn't organising cute photo ops.

[meda]

http://myobsaidwhat.com/

I'm not breaking the link, because they want the traffic. A LOT of doctors still want to do an episiotomy. True, the tides are starting to turn, but it's a still a problem.

The problem with this website is that one of our more notorious troll posters/lying grifter who lies about everything, Elle has posted there. The fact that she can post her crazy at will on that site makes me question the accuracy of those stories.

Not that women don't have asshole doctors, that happens far to often. But personal anecdotes which may or may not be 100% true do not equal actual statistics on the frequency of procedures performed on laboring women.

[moodygirl86]

WHAT?!?!? OMFreakingG, he actually asked women? Or did he just make an assumption when the were crabby?

Recently, I went for an interview with a proper The Office style boss - the type who tried so bloody hard to be your best mate all the time. Anyways, the first thing he told me was that nothing I could say would shock him - he had been raised by a single mum who used to send him out every month to buy her lady products and that he'd understand if I wanted to make him aware of a painful period. I said "Are you going somewhere with this mate? Because no offence, but I'd rather discuss my cycle with Jimmy Saville!" It turned out he expected all new starters to work for free for the first two months. I happily told him to go fuck himself.

[ilovetchotchkes]

The problem with this website is that one of our more notorious troll posters/lying grifter who lies about everything, Elle has posted there. The fact that she can post her crazy at will on that site makes me question the accuracy of those stories.

Not that women don't have asshole doctors, that happens far to often. But personal anecdotes which may or may not be 100% true do not equal actual statistics on the frequency of procedures performed on laboring women.

Couple of quotes from a completely asshole OB I had in college are up there that I submitted. (ie: telling me not to cry during the roughest pelvic exam EVER that left me bleeding and sore after a WEEK even. I thought i was crazy until my sister said she had the same experience w/ the same doctor. I fired said doctor and found a better provider)

Some of them ARE true. :lol: However, I had NO IDEA that Elle had posted there. Jesus H Christ, does she ever actually TAKE CARE of her child? (If indeed she actually HAS a child. )

That being said, I did not have an episiotomy with either child. If you don't want an episiotomy, talk to your doctor. Jesus, its not that hard. And if your doctor says they do them routinely, and you have the means, find another doctor!. If you don't consent, they theoretically can't do anything you don't consent to.

[Sprocket]

The problem with this website is that one of our more notorious troll posters/lying grifter who lies about everything, Elle has posted there. The fact that she can post her crazy at will on that site makes me question the accuracy of those stories.

Not that women don't have asshole doctors, that happens far to often. But personal anecdotes which may or may not be 100% true do not equal actual statistics on the frequency of procedures performed on laboring women.

Elle. She's like an effing cockroach. You just can't get rid of her! I'm 99.9% sure she would survive a nuclear holocoust.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Elle. She's like an effing cockroach. You just can't get rid of her! I'm 99.9% sure she would survive a nuclear holocoust.

ANd then brag about how she had to beat her child during it.

[Wolfie]

The problem with this website is that one of our more notorious troll posters/lying grifter who lies about everything, Elle has posted there. The fact that she can post her crazy at will on that site makes me question the accuracy of those stories.

Not that women don't have asshole doctors, that happens far to often. But personal anecdotes which may or may not be 100% true do not equal actual statistics on the frequency of procedures performed on laboring women.

And some of those things that they're posting as "bad" don't look bad to me- some a little silly- like the nicu nurse who was making a voice for a preemee, but bad, not so much. I only see a few offensive ones on the first page, and I would like to know more background on them, it's hard to tell with just one sentence what was going on.

[ilovetchotchkes]

And some of those things that they're posting as "bad" don't look bad to me- some a little silly- like the nicu nurse who was making a voice for a preemee, but bad, not so much. I only see a few offensive ones on the first page, and I would like to know more background on them, it's hard to tell with just one sentence what was going on.

Oh yeah, i mean doctors are human just like we are. And sometimes humans say stupid things without thinking.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I wonder what she is going to with this baby? She needs storage solutions.

Maybe she could keep this one in the bathroom too, the sink would fit a newborn in, right? Then when its bigger it can graduate to the bath.

Or she could buy a box big enough to put a baby in, then shove it under her bed.

Or she should buy one of those cat carriers people use to take their pet to the vet in. Maybe they do ones for large dogs that could fit an older child in too.

Maybe she should put the kid in the kitchen, in the cupboard under the sink?

[emmiedahl]

Oh yeah, i mean doctors are human just like we are. And sometimes humans say stupid things without thinking.

It is not a secret around here that I want to be a doctor and it is looking like it will happen.

I think of my classmates as well as the med students/residents/doctors I have interacted with, and none of them want to perform procedures for no reason. I am sure there are older doctors still doing episiotomies because that is what they were taught 40 years ago as a best practice. And they have seen so many successful labors with them, that they believe in the procedure. So, the best thing to do is to ask your doctor what they think about episiotomy. Personally, I am horrified by it. When I talked to my doctor about it, he said he could not guarantee no episiotomy given my history with shoulder dystocia, but that he could promise he would not perform one outside of medical emergencies because he only uses them in those situations unless the mother prefers otherwise.

I am sensitive to the whole "doctors are assholes who like to perform unnecessary procedures thing" because I do not know a single doctor like that. I have been taught to look at evidence, use evidence-based treatments, and to tell patients when something is unproven as a matter of informed consent. Sometimes that means a doctor's advice will not match someone's wishes for a crunchy birth, but that does not make them bad doctors.

[HarryPotterFan]

It is not a secret around here that I want to be a doctor and it is looking like it will happen.

I think of my classmates as well as the med students/residents/doctors I have interacted with, and none of them want to perform procedures for no reason. I am sure there are older doctors still doing episiotomies because that is what they were taught 40 years ago as a best practice. And they have seen so many successful labors with them, that they believe in the procedure. So, the best thing to do is to ask your doctor what they think about episiotomy. Personally, I am horrified by it. When I talked to my doctor about it, he said he could not guarantee no episiotomy given my history with shoulder dystocia, but that he could promise he would not perform one outside of medical emergencies because he only uses them in those situations unless the mother prefers otherwise.

I am sensitive to the whole "doctors are assholes who like to perform unnecessary procedures thing" because I do not know a single doctor like that. I have been taught to look at evidence, use evidence-based treatments, and to tell patients when something is unproven as a matter of informed consent. Sometimes that means a doctor's advice will not match someone's wishes for a crunchy birth, but that does not make them bad doctors.

Congrats!! That's awesome. I'm sensitive to that too because both of my parents are doctors. My dad is an ophthalmologist and carefully looks at his chart before deciding if a patient is a good candidate for surgery. My dentist, on the other hand, is a evil sadist :lol: (I only say that because when I got fillings he didn't wait for the numbing medicine to kick in and then told me to stop flinching). Though, it was a necessary procedure...

[ilovetchotchkes]

It is not a secret around here that I want to be a doctor and it is looking like it will happen.

I think of my classmates as well as the med students/residents/doctors I have interacted with, and none of them want to perform procedures for no reason. I am sure there are older doctors still doing episiotomies because that is what they were taught 40 years ago as a best practice. And they have seen so many successful labors with them, that they believe in the procedure. So, the best thing to do is to ask your doctor what they think about episiotomy. Personally, I am horrified by it. When I talked to my doctor about it, he said he could not guarantee no episiotomy given my history with shoulder dystocia, but that he could promise he would not perform one outside of medical emergencies because he only uses them in those situations unless the mother prefers otherwise.

I am sensitive to the whole "doctors are assholes who like to perform unnecessary procedures thing" because I do not know a single doctor like that. I have been taught to look at evidence, use evidence-based treatments, and to tell patients when something is unproven as a matter of informed consent. Sometimes that means a doctor's advice will not match someone's wishes for a crunchy birth, but that does not make them bad doctors.

Oh yeah, definitely- and sometimes doctors have to tell you what you DO NOT want to hear. - I'm on a "plus sized mommy" group and I roll my eyes regularly with women who claim that weight has nothing to do with fertility and that their doctors are apparently just a bunch of mean old bullies for telling them that they need to lose weight in order for their fertility to increase. :roll:

I was referring more to the goofier quotes on there, like the ones that are obviously an attempt at humor that a patient took wrong.

All of the doctors that I currently am seeing are really really super awesome and they're incredibly good at involving me in my care. Which is what I want. :)

[HarryPotterFan]

^ My mom is a cardiologist and constantly has to tell patients they need to lose weight. Part of a doctors' job is telling people things they don't want to hear to get them healthier or to beak bad news. The doctors aren't bullies for telling someone to lose weight, there are other risk factors the doctors might be concerned about. It would be bullying if a doctor said, "You are a big ol' fatty." or "DAYUM girl"

[BlondeAgent007]

^ My mom is a cardiologist and constantly has to tell patients they need to lose weight. Part of a doctors' job is telling people things they don't want to hear to get them healthier or to beak bad news. The doctors aren't bullies for telling someone to lose weight, there are other risk factors the doctors might be concerned about. It would be bullying if a doctor said, "You are a big ol' fatty." or "DAYUM girl"

It's people with weight issues not wanting to admit they have weight issues. Mentioning that weight loss would improve heart health isn't bullying. A lot of doctors are actually afraid to even breach the subject with people. Especially pediatricians trying to tell a parent that their child is obese. Some doctors can be insensitive about things, but most honestly don't approach the subject that way. Everybody knows someone with weight issues that has honestly struggled. It hurts to hear the truth sometimes, but turning a blind eye to something causing bigger problems isn't a good response.

[bea]

My cousin's wife had a baby last month (oh, such a beautiful baby, you have no idea, squee!) and the poor thing had the umbilical cord wrapped around her shoulders and she got stuck on the way out. So they had to give CW an epistiotomy with no anesthesia so that baby could get out.

I had c-sections with both my girls (transverse breech, same position for both, deeply weird) and OH MY GOD. I cannot imagine. My cousin (who is female) keeps saying things like "Wife is still hurting and it's been three weeks and I don't understand what the problem is." indicating that cluelessness about what happens to your ladybits when you have a baby and when they're cut open and stitched back together is not exclusive to men. Wife is exhausted and healing and pumping because baby won't latch right and Cousin is all "Geez, she's so cranky!" and Cousin and I exchanged several text messages on the topic. Mine were in all caps. I think she got the idea, in the end.

Wow, this thread went off topic. I was interested to see that TW participated in the "pants to church" thing that a bunch of LDS women did. I would not have thought that of her.