Spankng Leads To Child Servants!!

[debrand]

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/confes ... nking-mom/

I am the mother of eight children and am regularly complimented on the behavior of my kids

I think that people havea low bar for how children are supposed to behave in public. My kids were able to sit still in a restaurant and say please and thank you to the servers. Therefore we got compliments on their behavior.

Mom, do you want me to take the baby?†“Dad, I made your coffee.†“Mom, I’ll get the younger kids’ lunch.†“Dad, we cleaned your car.†“Mom, I made you some lemonade.â€

All the above quotes are things I hear every day. My children are obedient. Yes, my children are spanked when needed. And no, my children are NOT abused. Rather, because they are lovingly corrected, they love to serve their father and me.

So, spank your children in order to get waited on by them. Really? How does hitting your kid teach them to be compassionate?

Because my mother's temper frightened us, my siblings and I often did what was neccesary to keep her in a good mood. This was not because we loved her or wanted to do nice things for her. It was because we were afraid of her.

It is my opinion that when a parent doesn’t spank his child for wrong behavior or attitudes, he is loving himself more than his child.

When I was young, I was told that spanking meant that my parents loved me enough to care about my behavior. Now that I am older, I understand how screwed up that is. It sounds like something an abusive spouse would say to the victim.

[emmyfair]

Nutshell - I love you so much, that's why I hit you.

I can't even get my head around that one.....

[Swamptribe]

they keep talking about making their children servants? Who is going to be the leader?

[tinuviel]

[...] So, spank your children in order to get waited on by them. Really? How does hitting your kid teach them to be compassionate?

Because my mother's temper frightened us, my siblings and I often did what was neccesary to keep her in a good mood. This was not because we loved her or wanted to do nice things for her. It was because we were afraid of her. [...]

THIS exactly. I did a shit-ton of housework as a teen because I hoped that it would earn me good karma with my dad so he wouldn't yell at or belittle me.

When my dad wasn't around, I still helped with housework, but more because I wanted to do something nice for my mom (because she's awesome :) ). Definitely think the latter situation was way healthier than the former, even if they looked the same from the outside.

[emmiedahl]

People do have a low bar.

I love my kids and all, but the middle three remind of the howler monkeys. That is totally how they can get without adult input. They are free range children at heart. Yet people constantly compliment me on their behavior in public because they don't scream, run wild and dismantle everything around them.

My parenting method is some weird combination of attachment parenting and stereotypical Jewish mom nagging. No violence or threats thereof. Suck it, Michael Pearl. There is nothing your friends' children do or don't do that most children do or don't do. The difference is that heathen children are well-behaved because they know they ought to be, from an intrinsic sense of right, rather than from threats of beatings. And, judging from my stepchildren, my relatively well-behaved children will grow up to contribute to society, unlike yours.

[deelaem]

"My children are spanked and we are told they are well-behaved, therefore ALL children need to be spanked to be well-behaved".

LOGIC FAIL!

[Mela99]

So where's the part where they are just being good, well-behaved kids, not catering to you and your husband?

Icks.

I wonder if those are things they GOT spanked for...

"No pink lemonade for Mom? Cut me a switch!"

[FlorenceHamilton]

These people frustrate the life out of me. Children need to learn critical thinking even when it comes to behavior. There are certain settings where jumping and climbing and "free range" behavior is not only acceptable, but is appropriate. Other times, polite and quiet behavior is expected. It os our job as parents to anticipate situations and to teach our children how to discern appropriate behavior.

I am reminded of the time that I took my two 4 year olds and my 6 year old to see a show on Broadway in NY, (Phantom of the Opera). I chatted them up the whole way about what a privilege it is to see a broadway show. They already knew the music and the story becase they had listened to my CD's. We talked about what the theater would be like and about how they envisioned the characters. We talked about how to plan the best times to use the rest room. They were wonderful and enthusiastic in the theater. They quietly asked questions and mostly just sat in awe. After the show was over it was pouring down rain. It was a matinee show. Their father and I ran with them accross the street to the nearest restaurant. The children were famished. We had walked into Sardi's. The wait staff looked a little taken aback, but proceeded to fawn over the children. (I think they were anticipating such small children may be difficult.) My kids were great. They were polite, but they remained little children. They talked to the wait staff about the show and asked them lots of questions. The staff asked them questions too and helped them choose kid-friendly food. By the end of the meal, they had had charmed the whole snooty restaurant. It cost a fortune, but gave all 5 of us a wonderful memory.

My point is that spanking the will out of children does not teach them how to handle themselves in the world. I wanted my children to embrace life, not simple be well behaved. Appropriate behavior comes with appreciation of your surroundings. They tried paintball in their adolescence and they displayed a very different set of behaviors. The beach dictated other behaviors. Sporting events could be rowdy and my children are not shy about using colorful language. They just knew that it was OK at the ballpark but not at the Majestic.

Critical thinking skills are what children need.

[ElphabaGalinda]

So where's the part where they are just being good, well-behaved kids, not catering to you and your husband?

Icks.

I wonder if those are things they GOT spanked for...

"No pink lemonade for Mom? Cut me a switch!"

I never thought of that. But now that I do, that's likely, and that's horrible. Waiting on their parents does not equal being good. Children should be helping out, but they shouldn't be expected to fetch their parents or clean their cars without being asked. (what's wrong with being asked to do things!). I got the vibe that these kids are terrified of their parents which is why they do all that in hopes of somehow pleasing them enough to not get hit.

I would never want my kids to be terrified of me, and no one should want that.

[TVR]

I have 8 children. I often get compliments on their behaviour when we are out and about. My children are trusted by others, often asked to help out at events, etc. They volunteer places. People like hanging out with them and spending time with them. They help me around the house, they offer our guests coffee or tea, and they are great individuals. We do not spank and we fully believe in grace-based parenting.

We, as parents, sometimes mess up; so do our kids. Messing up is a great learning opportunity!

So, yes, a big fat WHATEVER to the author!

[flojo]

THIS exactly. I did a shit-ton of housework as a teen because I hoped that it would earn me good karma with my dad so he wouldn't yell at or belittle me.

When my dad wasn't around, I still helped with housework, but more because I wanted to do something nice for my mom (because she's awesome :) ). Definitely think the latter situation was way healthier than the former, even if they looked the same from the outside.

On a similar note, as a teen I did a shit ton as well, to try an appease the stepfather. (it was never quite right anyway, but the screaming at I'd get for trivial issues, such as stacking the casserole dishes incorrectly in the cupboard was somewhat less if I'd volunteered, than if I hadn't).

As an adult this has made it really difficult for me to keep a clean house. It was liberating when I went to college, knowing that I could not clean, and it would be ok. I despised housework, because I associated it with horrible things. It has taken me years to get over this, and only now, in my late twenties, am I able to happily clean, and starting to take pride in my apartment.

Parenting should be about giving the child the skills to make it on their own when the time comes, not using kids for your own personal gain, in a way that will make things more difficult for them as an independent adult. A case in point for this is Smuggar. I doubt he'd be acting quite so much like a 14 year old boy now that he has a family if he'd been allowed to be a 14 year old boy when he was 14, not having the be a mini adult.

[debrand]

This is from teh article also

I have several boys, and occasionally an older brother entertains himself at a younger sibling’s expense. I call that bullying. I find myself saying, “Stop that. You know better.†or “You wouldn’t want someone to do that to you.†Recently, one of my boys was having a particularly good time teasing his younger brothers. I remember thinking, even saying, “I need to spank him soon.†Instead, I said, “Be nice†or something similar. After several days of this, I finally did what I knew I should have done sooner, all the while shaking my head at my unwillingness to inconvenience myself. Spanking is not fun for me. But that spanking instantly resulted in sweet relief for all concerned. My bully son was suddenly thoughtful, playing with his younger brothers instead of mistreating them. He was helpful to me, serving me and his siblings. It was as if his guilty conscience was saying, “Thank you for finally spanking me. I feel better now.†On his own, he just couldn’t stop being mean to his little brothers, and it left him unhappy with himself.

It sounds as if the only thing that she knows how to do is spank. The underlined part is troubling. she believes that her son is grateful for the spanking and feels better afterward. No one needs to be hit.

[tinuviel]

Yeah, and DUDE, what about separating the kids? Also, how old is this older brother anyway?

One mom I know will take her 7 and 9 year old girls by the hands when the are fighting and teach them how to talk it out. "It hurt my feelings when you said x," "y is important to me," etc. That approach doesn't work for every kid or every situation, but giving kids actual TOOLS to deal with emotions and other people seems a lot better than hitting them when they show bad behavior.

Though I have to say, Fundie morality focuses so much on prohibitions that the negative parenting isn't that surprising. You're a good person if you don't listen to bad music, watch bad movies, say bad things, seek your own benefit, have sex, etc. Not much in there about how to develop positive character qualities. Even those are basically couched in negatives. Ugh.

[Mela99]

Why do all fundies treat their kids like they're brainless automatons that just function with no sense of anything until they step in? Where is the teaching of self control, of self accountability?

Nike - Boys cannot control themselves, girls must protect them

Wives - Cannot control themselves, husbands must protect them

Dating couples - Cannot control themselves, chaperones must protect them

And here - small child teasing siblings - and mom immediately says, Oh he definitely can't control himself, he'll thank me for this. And come on - siblings tease and needle and fight. Because they are siblings. Because it is human nature. Not because they are uncontrollable beings.

What's wrong with raising children to respect themselves? To do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because someone is there watching or they're going to get a whack.

I don't think any of these fundies raise kids with proper self-accountability. If you do the wrong thing, it hurts you, not just mom/whoever . The Duggars behave... because they're never left alone.

Look at Smuggar. Always been watched. Moves out, gains 50 pounds and ups the verbal vomit. Ha-ha, nobody is watching me, I can do what I want now!

:angry-soapbox:

[bananacat]

I'm sure the kids don't behave as well as the mother thinks. People either tell her the kids are well-behaved because that many kids are an unusual sight and they don't know what else to say, or else it's all coming from her echo chamber of friends. I mean, people think that the Duggar kids are well-behaved even after they rode bikes inside a store. People have much lower standards for people that they want to like.

[Miggy]

An hour ago Mr15 came in and asked if I wanted a hot chocolate. He was making one for himself and thought I might like one. He came out later with three; mine, his and one for Miss13. He hadn't asked her but he knows she likes them. No big deal, right?

Now I realise this is a big deal. Something is wrong with Mr15. :shock: I have never hit him and yet he is kind, compassionate, well-behaved... How did this happen? :lol:

[Sola]

These people frustrate the life out of me. Children need to learn critical thinking even when it comes to behavior. There are certain settings where jumping and climbing and "free range" behavior is not only acceptable, but is appropriate. Other times, polite and quiet behavior is expected. It os our job as parents to anticipate situations and to teach our children how to discern appropriate behavior.

I am reminded of the time that I took my two 4 year olds and my 6 year old to see a show on Broadway in NY, (Phantom of the Opera). I chatted them up the whole way about what a privilege it is to see a broadway show. They already knew the music and the story becase they had listened to my CD's. We talked about what the theater would be like and about how they envisioned the characters. We talked about how to plan the best times to use the rest room. They were wonderful and enthusiastic in the theater. They quietly asked questions and mostly just sat in awe. After the show was over it was pouring down rain. It was a matinee show. Their father and I ran with them accross the street to the nearest restaurant. The children were famished. We had walked into Sardi's. The wait staff looked a little taken aback, but proceeded to fawn over the children. (I think they were anticipating such small children may be difficult.) My kids were great. They were polite, but they remained little children. They talked to the wait staff about the show and asked them lots of questions. The staff asked them questions too and helped them choose kid-friendly food. By the end of the meal, they had had charmed the whole snooty restaurant. It cost a fortune, but gave all 5 of us a wonderful memory.

My point is that spanking the will out of children does not teach them how to handle themselves in the world. I wanted my children to embrace life, not simple be well behaved. Appropriate behavior comes with appreciation of your surroundings. They tried paintball in their adolescence and they displayed a very different set of behaviors. The beach dictated other behaviors. Sporting events could be rowdy and my children are not shy about using colorful language. They just knew that it was OK at the ballpark but not at the Majestic.

Critical thinking skills are what children need.

Reminds me of something we do with the kids, not so much now as they are older, but when they were younger and we went out to eat we had 'Restaurant Manners'. We told them this even if we were going to McDonalds. It doesn't matter to me where we eat, whether it be a top restaurant or a fast food place, we have restaurant manners. Not that we let them behave like howler monkeys at home but I hate to see kids run riot when in restaurants with their families.

[Effie]

I think I was very much like the “well-behaved†child she refers to, when I came out from the womb. I was quiet and would sit still at the same spot for hours (even when I knew how to walk). People around me were worried that I couldn’t play or show any joy. They saw it as an unhealthy behaviour. I was born this way. Her children weren’t. I wasn’t curious about the world around me. Her children probably were and hopefully still are. Children don’t behave as we usually want to, because they are children. They test limits. They make mistakes. When they do so, they construct an understanding of the world around them. It’s a healthy behaviour. She is punishing this healthy behaviour.

Spanking is a poor excuse for not parenting. Spanking isn't part of parenting.

[ophelia]

The Pearl's website just makes me want to puke every.single.time. I visit it!