"Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

[formergothardite]

Umm...ever heard of learning from others to speak the language? But to be perfectly honest, this isn't my problem, and well, maybe if they don't have the time or money to learn the language of the countrythey want to live in, then maybe they should just stay put. That is unless they are seeking political asylum.

IME, people with hearing/speech impediments are easier to understand.

At this point we are beating a dead horse. Unlike the sexist religion threads (which I later admitted to & said it was something that was bothering me for a while), there is no confusion here. I will not change my mind on this one. So, add racist to whatever list of names you want to call me. I don't care.

So you just don't care about anyone but yourself. We can add self-centered to that list. The teen I know isn't easy to understand, should she be allowed to work?

By the way, when you started on the sexist thread, you also said that there was no confusion, that your church wasn't sexist, that you would never change your mind, so basically you lied instead of admitting that you went to a sexist church and it had been bothering you?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

So what dialect of hoof-clopping did Mr. Ed speak, anyway?

[pomology]

With Hebrew (and I suppose other Semitic languages), you can't really learn word-for-word translation. Instead, you need to learn phrases. There's no word for "is", for example.

I am well aware of the fact that there are equivalents of conjugations of "to be" in the present tense in Hebrew and Arabic and probably other Semitic languages because as I said in the post you quoted, I have studied both Hebrew and Arabic, but thanks for telling me?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

"The copula." Sounds dirty :P

[RR88]

I have studied both Hebrew and Arabic

I wish I had formally taken Arabic in college. Now I'm stuck teaching it to myself with the help of a whole posse of Arab friends.

[Guest Anonymous]

"The copula." Sounds dirty :P

:dance:

[Bella99]

The best American, so to speak, that I've ever known, the woman who taught me to be grateful for the many priveleges I enjoy simply for being born here, was the Vietnamese seamstress who worked with me in my shop. She took her driving test many times, her citizenship test only twice. She spoke heavily accented, sometimes hard to understand English and was an immense asset to my business. She had been beaten, robbed and imprisoned by the police in N. Vietnam because she was moderately successful and they wanted to take what she had managed to save. She managed to get all 3 of her children to this country, to safety and possibility by herself.

Geniebelle, you are not half the American, half the human being, she was.

[Conuly]

Umm...ever heard of learning from others to speak the language? But to be perfectly honest, this isn't my problem, and well, maybe if they don't have the time or money to learn the language of the countrythey want to live in, then maybe they should just stay put. That is unless they are seeking political asylum.

1. You're an idiot. You are actually stupid. You're so stupid I can't even believe how stupid you are. You're a monolingual speaker of English, and you think you know anything about second language acquisition? Would that it were so easy to just pick up *entirely new phonemes* and *entirely new sets of phonetic constraints* by observation!

2. No, it's not your problem. So stop talking about it. Shop where you like to shop and ignore the places where you don't.

3. So it's not okay to move because of a war, or because of famine, or because of grinding, unbeatable poverty that makes everyday survival impossible? It's not okay to move to have better medical care, or to avoid a disease?

Again: You? Are an idiot.

[RR88]

You're an idiot. You are actually stupid. You're so stupid I can't even believe how stupid you are. You're a monolingual speaker of English, and you think you know anything about second language acquisition? Would that it were so easy to just pick up *entirely new phonemes* and *entirely new sets of phonetic constraints* by observation!

I concur. That geniebelle hasn't even tried to learn a second language demonstrates that her opinion on this subject is next to worthless.

[pomology]

1. You're an idiot. You are actually stupid. You're so stupid I can't even believe how stupid you are. You're a monolingual speaker of English, and you think you know anything about second language acquisition? Would that it were so easy to just pick up *entirely new phonemes* and *entirely new sets of phonetic constraints* by observation!

Yeah. Not to mention that at a really young age your ability to differentiate between phonemes that don't exist in the language(s) you are exposed to gets way worse.

[Renting with Raggles]

1. You're an idiot. You are actually stupid. You're so stupid I can't even believe how stupid you are. You're a monolingual speaker of English, and you think you know anything about second language acquisition? Would that it were so easy to just pick up *entirely new phonemes* and *entirely new sets of phonetic constraints* by observation!

Yeah, as a teacher at international schools this gave me a good laugh.

Immersion is the best way to learn a language, as any expert or really anyone with a modicum of common sense will tell you. I have to go out on the streets and practise my Chinese - that's how I'm learning to make myself understood and to understand others. That's what the sandwich guy, or whoever it was in the original example was doing - if indeed he was from a part of India where English wasn't widely spoken and was actually learning it as a second language. Working with trained language teachers in a class is really different to haggling with a toothless flower-seller on the street.

I can't even imagine how small and provincial geniebelle's world must be. Fuckin' global education - how does it work?

[Anise]

Arabic follows the same basic structural "rules" as other Semitic languages; this can be difficult for native English speakers. Once you know the way a Semitic language works, though, the other ones make a lot of sense.

To say the least. I remember when my Hebrew teacher (who was a native speaker) happily told us that in Hebrew, there are only three verb tenses, but she went on to explain that there are seven houses of verbs. That concept took a while. . .

[super skeptic]

The best American, so to speak, that I've ever known, the woman who taught me to be grateful for the many priveleges I enjoy simply for being born here, was the Vietnamese seamstress who worked with me in my shop. She took her driving test many times, her citizenship test only twice. She spoke heavily accented, sometimes hard to understand English and was an immense asset to my business. She had been beaten, robbed and imprisoned by the police in N. Vietnam because she was moderately successful and they wanted to take what she had managed to save. She managed to get all 3 of her children to this country, to safety and possibility by herself.

Geniebelle, you are not half the American, half the human being, she was.

THIS.

[LadyBlue]

Thank you for the ideas. I googled and found a number of cultural centres; none French or Japanese (German, Italian, Chinese & Ukrainian seem to be predominant). Weird there's no French one since I'm in Canada and the next town over is French.

I did find a school to learn French that has classes for all ages, but it's on the other side of our huge city & we have no car. I did also find that the library did have Rosetta Stone for members but has since switched to something else. We might be able to use that. And if we ever manage to get a car or move to the other side of the city, I know where my kids (and maybe me too, if we can afford it) are going to go. :)

[Sola]

Sorry, Isa fixin' supper...boomers & fried oakry! Then muh sink got all gaumed up.

Sola, need a Sears & Roebuck catalog?

What?

[Guest Anonymous]

The best American, so to speak, that I've ever known, the woman who taught me to be grateful for the many priveleges I enjoy simply for being born here, was the Vietnamese seamstress who worked with me in my shop. She took her driving test many times, her citizenship test only twice. She spoke heavily accented, sometimes hard to understand English and was an immense asset to my business. She had been beaten, robbed and imprisoned by the police in N. Vietnam because she was moderately successful and they wanted to take what she had managed to save. She managed to get all 3 of her children to this country, to safety and possibility by herself.

Geniebelle, you are not half the American, half the human being, she was.

Yeah, yeah...I hear stories like this all the time. But let me ask you this. Do you think stories like that are limited to Vietnam or other countries? What about American women who are escaping abusive relationships and trying to protect themselves and their kids. Aren't they just as deserving of a job as the Vietnamese woman? Or would would you just send her to some shelter and say "good luck, honey"? I'm thinking the latter, which would make both you and I both less of an American and human being.

Yeah. Not to mention that at a really young age your ability to differentiate between phonemes that don't exist in the language(s) you are exposed to gets way worse.

I brought this up with my Mexican-American neighbor. He said that while he couldn't afford English classes, he did receive the help he needed from others in the Spanish speaking communities, and he didn't come to America until his early 30's. So, I'm not buying a word of that.

3. So it's not okay to move because of a war, or because of famine, or because of grinding, unbeatable poverty that makes everyday survival impossible? It's not okay to move to have better medical care, or to avoid a disease?

Again: You? Are an idiot

We have enough problems in this country that have yet to be resolved or fixed. If we can't do that, then how in the hell can we solve the rest of the world's problems? Oh, wait we can always but our fellow Americans on some type of public assistance while we try to solve the rest of the world's problems. No, sweetheart, the idiot here is you because you don't seem to recognize the problems that are just outside your doorstep, but you have no problems sympathizing with the rest of the world.

That geniebelle hasn't even tried to learn a second language demonstrates that her opinion on this subject is next to worthless.

True, but if I planned to move to another country, I will. I will say that it is probably a good idea to learn more than one language. But, since English is the majority language, I shouldn't have to speak another language to conduct day to day business in my own country.

you also said that there was no confusion, that your church wasn't sexist, that you would never change your mind, so basically you lied instead of admitting that you went to a sexist church and it had been bothering you?

At the time I was conflicted because my minister and fellow church members supported me through some of the darkest times of my life. I felt like I was turning my back on the people who have helped me the most.

So what dialect of hoof-clopping did Mr. Ed speak, anyway?

Seriously? You're bringing a sitcom from the 1960's into this? Wow. And I'm the one being called a stupid idiot? :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

What?

So it seems I understood most of your Yorkshire, but you don't understand my hillbilly references It's hillbilly toilet paper!

[Guest Anonymous]

Here's another southern/Appalachian word for you. What is granny? Hint: There are 2 answers and one of them ain't grandmother.

[freejoytoo]

Aren't you kind of defeating your point geniebelle?

I can speak a tiny bit of Latin, tiny being the operative word. I mentioned this to a tutor when she was trying to understand something on a church sign and she took that to mean I was fluent in it and then announced to the whole class on the trip that I could translate every sign. Unfortunately not. I could translate about half of it! I do really like Latin though, and love seeing the roots in English.

[formergothardite]

Why won't you answer about the hearing impaired teen I know who DOES have a think accent that most people have a hard time understanding? Should she be allowed to work since despite a life-time of speech therapy she isn't improving? She might have to ask you to repeat something and you might have to ask her to repeat something. Does her being white mean that you would give her more slack than if she Indian, yet born and raised here?

And you haven't been around Free Jinger long if you think people here just think that abused women should be sent to a shelter with a good luck. People here, from what I can tell, are very much in support of helping people who need jobs find them. It doesn't matter if you are from India or from the back woods.

[Conuly]

To say the least. I remember when my Hebrew teacher (who was a native speaker) happily told us that in Hebrew, there are only three verb tenses, but she went on to explain that there are seven houses of verbs. That concept took a while. . .

Well, hell, properly speaking English only has two tenses, past and not-the-past. Everything else doesn't technically count. (No, really!)

So, I'm not buying a word of that.

Yes, because one exception proves that everybody else is lying. Again, YOU have never learned another language so YOU are not allowed to judge.

What about American women who are escaping abusive relationships and trying to protect themselves and their kids. Aren't they just as deserving of a job as the Vietnamese woman? Or would would you just send her to some shelter and say "good luck, honey"?

No, sweetheart, the idiot here is you because you don't seem to recognize the problems that are just outside your doorstep, but you have no problems sympathizing with the rest of the world.

So, basically, when you said "I have no problems with (legal) immigrants" what you meant is "I have huge problems with immigrants, and I only will deign to pretend to like them if they act and talk just like me". You lied, in fact.

But, since English is the majority language, I shouldn't have to speak another language to conduct day to day business in my own country.

Since the majority of us think this is nonsense, you should agree with is. Since the majority of us think you should learn another language, you should do so. Since the majority of us think you're a twit, you should stop posting.

Just because you're lucky enough to be in the majority does not mean you get to tyrannize the rest of the population. Nowhere in the constitution is it written "You have a right to never encounter a person who speaks differently from you."

You have a right to choose where you shop, since we're all so capitalist. There are a few regulations on businesses to ensure your safety, both in terms of health and in terms of not being cheated. That's where it ends. Adding more regulations for little reason is un-American.

[Sola]

So it seems I understood most of your Yorkshire, but you don't understand my hillbilly references It's hillbilly toilet paper!

I'm British, why would I understand that?

We use newspaper here anyway! Or a dockleaf!

[Sola]

At the time I was conflicted because my minister and fellow church members supported me through some of the darkest times of my life. I felt like I was turning my back on the people who have helped me the most.

Why is challenging views turning your back on someone? My mum is in her sixties and she has some views that I do not agree with, particularly ones on asylum seekers. These views are formed partly as a result of her generation and partly from reading tabloid newspapers. I challenge her on them all the time. I have not and never would turn my back on her, she is my mother after all, but yes I challenge her views as they are born from ignorance.

[formergothardite]

And she was still lying if she really felt like her church needed to change yet she claimed here that it was just fine and it wasn't sexist. If she felt conflicted and bothered by what was going on in her church, she should have just stated that instead of all the cuss filled posts telling us that her church wasn't sexist and that she wasn't going to change her mind and we were all just intolerant and judgmental.

[pomology]

I brought this up with my Mexican-American neighbor. He said that while he couldn't afford English classes, he did receive the help he needed from others in the Spanish speaking communities, and he didn't come to America until his early 30's. So, I'm not buying a word of that.

You're a fucking moron. The point that I brought up is something that has been rigorously tested by people in the field. How the fuck would your Mexican-American neighbor know anything about this shit anyway? Spanish and English share most of the same phonemes. But thanks for your shitty example that doesn't prove anything and shows that you really, truly don't understand shit about languages or learning them.

ETA: I'm gonna guess you have not a clue what phonemes actually are.