Different Perspective on Healthcare?

[JesusFightClub]

In response to this year's State of the Union speech, delivered by GOP Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels, he said that in American, we are not a country of haves and have nots, but rather haves and soon-to-haves.

Clearly, the myth of the meritocracy is alive and well.

And it was a satirical concept anyway!

[freejoytoo]

The American Dream myth ignores situation of birth, demographics, health and level of education. We all said in school that it didn't sound too bad on paper and then the teacher explained that and then none of us thought much of it. I think we were thirteen.

Seriously, how can anyone think that ALL disease is caused by bad choices? That's crazy. Even if you want to go with the (incredibly inaccuarate) view that you get diabetes from eating too much sugar, how do they explain children with heart problems or brain tumours and all the other myriads of disease and illness? And tbh, when a member of the public gets lung cancer from smoking I still want to help them out. No, they shouldn't have smoked but I don't want them to have cancer and die.

[apple1]

... They think that if all those bad people could just live perfect lives, then they wouldn't need healthcare except in the tragic and un-blamable cases of breast cancer and a few other diseases. It's like if you could have avoided the disease by just being a better person, you don't deserve coverage for it.

Wrong.

A significant % of people think that if you get breast cancer, you did something wrong to get that, too. (I have received those comments). It was your weight, it was your diet, it was your lifestyle, etc, etc.

Evidence: the persistence of the myth that having an abortion causes BC. Just one of the lies.

Oh, don't forget, positive thinking and a good diet :roll: will cure BC if you are unfortunate enough to get it.

And those who have not yet had BC think it will never happen to them; it will be someone else. (FJers not exceptions to this thinking BTW).

- signed, a BC survivor

[Little Miss Alien]

It's actually the same in the UK. Because healthcare is funded by taxpayers money, many people believe there are those who are "worthy" of help and those who aren't. In recent months the things I have heard include:

All lung cancer patients must have smoked, so don't deserve treatment.

All obese people/those with heart conditions/diabetes all brought it on themselves with food and should be left to die.

Transplant patients are mostly smokers and drinkers and don't deserve new lungs and livers (despite other transplants existing and for a myriad of conditions such as Cystic Fibrosis, congenital heart/liver/kidney problems, and in my case, a rare eye condition. No, they just think of George Best and his liver transplant after years of alcoholism.) and should be left to die as it's 'natural selection'.

Breast cancer mastectomy patients shouldn't have got implants on the NHS and should just live with their disfigurement (this because of the recent news coverage of the unsafe silicone implants in the UK and Europe).

And yet, if these people drove recklessly, had an accident and needed major lifesaving surgery and rehabilitation (possibly at a higher cost to the taxpayer than anyone they deeemed unworthy), they would totally expect to be treated, even though by using their own logic, they 'wouldn't deserve it'.

Thankfully the system doesn't work that way!

[SayNoToMullets]

Something I find contradictory about the American conservative attitude towards all things "socialist" is that we already have so many tax-funded services in place that even conservatives wouldn't turn away. When you call 911, depending on the nature of the incident the police, fire department, and/or ambulance show up. You only have to pay for one of them.

[jenny_islander]

Something I find contradictory about the American conservative attitude towards all things "socialist" is that we already have so many tax-funded services in place that even conservatives wouldn't turn away. When you call 911, depending on the nature of the incident the police, fire department, and/or ambulance show up. You only have to pay for one of them.

No, no, no!!! All that stuff is funded from the magic money tree. Government has nothing to do with it. Government only ever takes away your money in order to give it to the undeserving. Except when they are waging a just war to free the poor brown people from slavery (and get a bunch of giant corporations even richer, but never mind).

[HOTW]

There are issues at hand on all angles. Being raised in a country with NHC it was much easier on my parents because it was part of their taxes. Here in the USA I am without it because as a self employed person the cost is astronomical and my taxes are pretty high as the Gov't seems to think being SE=rich. Yet I get my knickers in a twist because the USA does have socialized medicine it's called MedicAid!! And I pay for it out of my taxes! So I think people here are brainwashed to NOT see the truth. Esp when most people who qualify for MCAid usually get a nice payment back fromt he Gov't every year at tax time.Money which they have not paid in taxes to begin with.

As for NHC in other countries...there are issues I have a cousin who had to come to the USA for treatment for brain cancer because they do not have the machine to treat it over there. She was lucky money was raised thru fundraising to get her the treatment but it still cost over $400,000!!!! Her fmaily paid for her stay the money was just for the treatment at John Hopkins! She is trying to continue to fundraise so they can bring the machine over but the cost of the machine is 110 million dollars! Scary isn't it!

To be frank my mum & I are making plans to move back to the land of my birth because we see hwo bad the issue is getting here and since I cannot afford to pay the costs what the Ins. companies think i should pay for insurance and since she is looking athwat her future costs my be, we dont see any reason to stay in the USA. If she paid her "share" it would still be chepaer than what she pays here for her supplemental Ins(she does get miedicare but it is a joke she has to buy the additional insurance too!

[bananacat]

Something I find contradictory about the American conservative attitude towards all things "socialist" is that we already have so many tax-funded services in place that even conservatives wouldn't turn away. When you call 911, depending on the nature of the incident the police, fire department, and/or ambulance show up. You only have to pay for one of them.

Actually, some places have a fire department set up so that people have to pay a protection fee. And there have been cases where firefighters let a house burn down, endangering nearby homes and even letting animals die because the home owners hadn't paid the fee. Here's on example:

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Ho ... 69773.html

I also used to work with a conservative who didn't like the idea of public schools. He paid for his son to go to private Catholic school and didn't think that his tax money should have to pay for education for other people's children. He also had a special needs daughter who was only 4 but received free benefits from the local school district but I guess he's just a speshul snowflake so his family deserves freebies while others don't.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Yes, there really is a vastly different attitude.

In part, people are used to what they know. I've never had to pay for doctors or hospitals here, so the idea of being asked to do so strikes me with panic and horror. I accept the fact that I can't buy my way to the front of the line or expect spa-like facilities. Canadian doctors like the fact that they never have to worry about collections - if they follow the billing procedures, they get paid.

Americans, OTOH, have no expectation of being able to get health care with just a health card that is issue to all residents. Those that have decent health care value it, and hear horror stories about the Canadian system. Change scares people, and we've met American doctors at conferences who were terrified by the idea of Obamacare.

[jenny_islander]

I also used to work with a conservative who didn't like the idea of public schools. He paid for his son to go to private Catholic school and didn't think that his tax money should have to pay for education for other people's children. He also had a special needs daughter who was only 4 but received free benefits from the local school district but I guess he's just a speshul snowflake so his family deserves freebies while others don't.

My social program comes from the magic money tree. Your social program is funded with money stolen from my pockets at gunpoint. That brown person's social program is a clear sign that America is going down the tubes and the wrong color people are going to take over and have sex with our women.

[AudreyE]

All you have to do is work hard and Think Positive!

And, if you're a black, inner-city youth, it wouldn't hurt to clean toilets while you're in school, so you can learn that work ethic, 'cause you're worthless-ass parents aren't going to teach it. They're too busy taking the welfare that's making poor, white people struggle in spite of their awesome work ethic.

[cindyluvs24]

i have found that a lot of the costs for things in the US are so inflated because everyone knows the insurance will pay for it. For example, hubby needed special socks for his legs (blood clots). At the store, they were listed at 75. When I went to pay for them, the lady asked for my insurance card to bill them directly. I told her I didn't have insurance. (I do but it doesn't cover those socks). She charged me 34. What I do like about my insurance is that I can go to any doctor or hospital without having to ask for pre-authorization. When hubby's tumor introduced itself last year, I got him an appointment at Sloan-Kettering within the week. They could do things that our local hospital couldn't. People in the US are worried that socialized medicine will be like a lousy HMO: rationed care and a lot of bureaucracy. Of course, we all are terrified of losing our jobs and with it , the good insurance. Do doctors in countries with socialized medicine earn less than American doctors?

[2xx1xy1JD]

i have found that a lot of the costs for things in the US are so inflated because everyone knows the insurance will pay for it. For example, hubby needed special socks for his legs (blood clots). At the store, they were listed at 75. When I went to pay for them, the lady asked for my insurance card to bill them directly. I told her I didn't have insurance. (I do but it doesn't cover those socks). She charged me 34. What I do like about my insurance is that I can go to any doctor or hospital without having to ask for pre-authorization. When hubby's tumor introduced itself last year, I got him an appointment at Sloan-Kettering within the week. They could do things that our local hospital couldn't. People in the US are worried that socialized medicine will be like a lousy HMO: rationed care and a lot of bureaucracy. Of course, we all are terrified of losing our jobs and with it , the good insurance. Do doctors in countries with socialized medicine earn less than American doctors?

Individual procedures are often less, for two reasons:

1. The government, as the sole payor, has more bargaining power.

2. The doctors know that they don't need to charge a premium to paying patients to make up for bad debts.

Earnings really vary by specialty, and by how business-minded a particular doctor is. An established doctor, who works full-time with a decent practice arrangement will still earn six figures in Canada.