New birth control plan still not good enough for bishops

[FakePigtails]

This is crazy, nothing will ever be good enough for them!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/ca ... al.html?hp

WASHINGTON — Catholic Bishops have sharply criticized a compromise President Obama offered on Friday over a health care regulation requiring religious-affiliated employers to pay for insurance plans that offer free contraception, declaring that the new plan remains “unacceptable and must be corrected.â€

In a statement issued late Friday night, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, which has led opposition to the proposal, said that a modification offered by the White House earlier that day in an effort to quell political furor did not go far enough in protecting religious liberty.

Under the White House’s new plan, religiously affiliated charities and universities would not be required to provide insurance plans that include birth control. However, if an employee wanted contraception services, the insurance company that administered the regular insurance plan would be required to provide it to that employee at no charge.

The Catholic bishops, who earlier on Friday said that the plan was “a step in the right direction†but that they needed to study it further, said later that some of its details remained unclear. What was clear, they said, was that the plan “continues to involve needless government intrusion in the internal governance of religious institutions, and to threaten government coercion of religious people and groups to violate their most deeply held convictions.â€

In particular, the church leaders said they were concerned about the nationwide mandate imposed by the Department of Health and Human Services for coverage of “sterilization and contraception,†which raised “a grave moral concern.†It said the government should simply exempt self-insuring religious employers and religious insurance companies from the mandate.

The White House had no immediate comment.

[mockingbird]

Fail. We had a deacon on the news who said it didn't violate the church's standards as originally planned. Then we had an archbishop (I think?) going on about how it violated religious freedom.

I'm not sure how that's different though? So now they are basically just allowed to say they don't cover it but they will have to if someone wants it?

[Black Aliss]

The bishops won't be satisfied until access to contraceptives is denied to all women, of all faiths. Never mind that many of these institutions were already covering contraceptives because of their state's requirements.

[Elle]

The compromise to require insurance companies to directly offer birth control isn't good enough because it still means birth control is legal. The Catholic church believes birth control of all sorts should be outlawed. They won't be happy as long as birth control and reproductive assistance remains legal.

[Katiebug]

If we're going to have a system in which the government determines what constitutes "standard" medical insurance coverage, and that includes contraceptives, then NO organization should be exempt for religious or moral reasons. Loopholes defeat the entire purpose of defining a standard minimum for insurance coverage. The solution to all of this is of course to truly decouple medical insurance from employment. But that's socialist of me, I know. :roll: The USCCB would likely be against a single-payer option anyways - then Catholic taxpayers' dollars would be going to fund contraceptives and sterilizations.

I get that the Catholic Church thinks that the Pill causes untold numbers of "abortions" but recent studies demonstrate that the Pill almost never acts primarily by preventing implantation. By any rational scientific/medical definitions of abortion, the Pill doesn't even remotely apply. These people should scare all of us; they really do believe that contraceptives are equivalent to abortion, and that therefore contraceptives should be illegal. They want to control everyone based on their religious beliefs.

I still want one of the celibate men running the Catholic church to explain exactly where in the Bible Jesus said, "Sorry, ladies - no birth control for you!" I don't think Jesus' words on the subject were recorded in the scriptures, which leads me to believe that it was not a primary concern of his. :lol:

As a woman who is a Christian of a mainline Protestant denomination, I'm happy that my denomination is of the view that childbearing and child spacing is up to each married couple to determine for themselves, and that if conception is not desired it is the responsibility of the man AND woman to use contraception. I live in an area where Catholics are a plurality, perhaps a slight majority and they are definitely the largest Christian denomination. Every Catholic who I know IRL (and know well enough to be aware of their family planning choices) uses artificial birth control.

[mrs]

The compromise to require insurance companies to directly offer birth control isn't good enough because it still means birth control is legal. The Catholic church believes birth control of all sorts should be outlawed. They won't be happy as long as birth control and reproductive assistance remains legal.

This is not true. The Church allows the pill to be used for medical reasons, basically any reason you would want to take the pill for besides the obvious use(if you get cramps, you can take the pill, depression after having a baby, pimples.... ect).

I don't agree with the Catholic Church's stance on this issue at ALL. But a similar plan was passed by DC a few years ago. The Church would have shut down all Catholic hospitals if forced to pay for insurance that cover the pill for family planning purposes(I do not agree with this). The Church will not step down form this issue. Which is SO CRAZY and BACKWARDS. But on the other hand, Congress knew THIS was an issue before and would be again if they didn't change the wording of the bill. It wouldn't be a problem if it allowed the pill for medical reasons(which the Church is REALLLLLLLLLYYYYY liberal about). I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church on this view. I'm just trying to give some insight.

Also, the Church agrees with the use of condoms to prevent aids.

I know the Church is slow to change, but it has come along way in 50 years. Pope John Paul II worked hard to change the Church for the better. ( I know it still has a long way to go but its moving in the right direction). :)

[Witsec7]

I know the Church is slow to change, but it has come along way in 50 years. Pope John Paul II worked hard to change the Church for the better. ( I know it still has a long way to go but its moving in the right direction).

They don't get a gimme on this. America is not a theocracy. They can keep this shit for their little country,i.e. Vatican City.

[mrs]

They don't get a gimme on this. America is not a theocracy. They can keep this shit for their little country,i.e. Vatican City.

Agree completely. ;) I just wanted to say the Church does not want birth control banned. Also, I go to a very progressive parish, where the number of children a couple, has should ALWAYS consider the ability to meet the needs of those children.

To sum it all up, I was taught about the Church, learned about other religions (even going to a Morman Church with my Catholic "Sunday Skoool" course, as well as a few others). I was taught to read and the bible, and if I disagreed with a Church doctrine, that was OK.

[Nothing2CHere]

Dear Catholic Bishops,

As celibate men, the issue of birth control should not concern you. Please quit this foolishness now.

Thank you,

A female member of the Catholic flock.

[mrs]

Dear Catholic Bishops,

As celibate men, the issue of birth control should not concern you. Please quit this foolishness now.

Thank you,

A female member of the Catholic flock.

:clap: LOL.

[emmyfair]

All I can say is I am so glad I escaped the fundie version of the Catholic church. I would be dead, should I have followed what they teach.

[dawn9476]

The bishops should shut up and be happy. Eight states where churches were not except from paying for birth control are now except under Obama's new rules.

[treemom]

This is not true. The Church allows the pill to be used for medical reasons, basically any reason you would want to take the pill for besides the obvious use(if you get cramps, you can take the pill, depression after having a baby, pimples.... ect).

I don't agree with the Catholic Church's stance on this issue at ALL. But a similar plan was passed by DC a few years ago. The Church would have shut down all Catholic hospitals if forced to pay for insurance that cover the pill for family planning purposes(I do not agree with this). The Church will not step down form this issue. Which is SO CRAZY and BACKWARDS. But on the other hand, Congress knew THIS was an issue before and would be again if they didn't change the wording of the bill. It wouldn't be a problem if it allowed the pill for medical reasons(which the Church is REALLLLLLLLLYYYYY liberal about). I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church on this view. I'm just trying to give some insight.

Also, the Church agrees with the use of condoms to prevent aids.

I know the Church is slow to change, but it has come along way in 50 years. Pope John Paul II worked hard to change the Church for the better. ( I know it still has a long way to go but its moving in the right direction). :)

The church is only ok with condoms for gay men who are in risk groups like prostitutes. They are not ok with female prostitutes using condoms,

Also, shut the damn hospitals down. Let me assure you that will turn the tide of public opinion agains the church sharply...and while catholic hospitals are non profit, they still make money for the church.

[Lainey]

The church is only ok with condoms for gay men who are in risk groups like prostitutes. They are not ok with female prostitutes using condoms,

What!? How the fuck does that make sense? (Look what I'm asking... :roll: ).

[Deleted06]

Dear Catholic Bishops,

As celibate men, the issue of birth control should not concern you. Please quit this foolishness now.

Thank you,

A female member of the Catholic flock.

Exactly this!!

Signed,

Another female member of the Catholic Church, one who not only uses bc but also has made sure her daughter has access to bc

[Beeks]

I actually don't understand the constitutionality of the whole thing, and I'm a lawyer. Can anyone explain it to me?

[Austin]

There is no doubt that the Catholic church higher-ups would be much happier had birth control never been developed, so no decision that allows women to get their naughty fingers on birth control is going to make them unhappy. Yes, I realize they make exceptions (so big of them), but the Church is against birth control, no matter how it's spun.

[Katiebug]

There is no doubt that the Catholic church higher-ups would be much happier had birth control never been developed, so no decision that allows women to get their naughty fingers on birth control is going to make them unhappy. Yes, I realize they make exceptions (so big of them), but the Church is against birth control, no matter how it's spun.

Even with those exceptions for medical reasons, many priests will still tell women that they should seek a "pro-life" Catholic OBGYN to treat the issue rather than going on the Pill. Officially it shouldn't be the first resort. The treatment in question usually involves NFP principles in some way with the rationale that the Pill is just a band-aid and doesn't really treat endometriosis, dysmenorrhea, etc. I have no clue how tracking one's fertility will aid in fixing these conditions.

If you read the loons at the Catholic Answers forums, they like to tell women who are taking the Pill for women's health problems that they're sinners who are causing little abortions every month. The assumption made is that of course these women are using it with contraceptive intent because of the "contraceptive mentality" that's ostensibly pervasive in our society, and that they just haven't had a holy priest around to tell them to suck it up and make those medical problems their cross to bear. :roll: I don't know if these people are just self-righteous asshats or not, but they seem claim that there's never a theologically-valid reason for a woman to use the Pill because of the alleged abortifacient potential.

[Austin]

Plus the longer they smear President Obama as some sort of non-respecter of religious liberty, the more like they think it is that their own stooge guy, Santorum, will be in the White House.

[mirele]

Why are we listening to these guys? As a group, the members of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops have been responsible for a veritable crime wave of priestly child sexual abuse that was covered up for decades. I just read yesterday how, in the Milwaukee archdiocese's bankruptcy, it came out that there were 8,000 ADDITIONAL, UNREPORTED incidents of child sexual abuse.

http://www.jsonline.com/features/religi ... 44534.html

These men should just STFU. I, and the women of America, don't need these guys up in our ladybits.

#BiteMeMiterBoys

[doggie]

I think most of it is birth control promotes promiscuity and irresponsibility. The church has been fighting for marriage only sex since there was a church and they have always lost the fight. kind of like the war on drugs. So to not promote sex outside of the marriage they will let god knows how many babies die of malnutrition and keep the poor poor just to keep a lid on sex that they have never been able to control outside or inside the church. What can a celibate pope comprehend about sex? books will never do it. The price paid on the war of birth control is as bad as the price paid for the war on drugs.

[bananacat]

Hey, I have a wild idea! Perhaps religious leaders should stay the fuck out of our secular government. Why should a small minority of religious people have so much influence and power? If they want their religion thoroughly entwined with government, then they should move to one of the many Catholic theocracies around the world.

[bananacat]

I think most of it is birth control promotes promiscuity and irresponsibility. The church has been fighting for marriage only sex since there was a church and they have always lost the fight. kind of like the war on drugs. So to not promote sex outside of the marriage they will let god knows how many babies die of malnutrition and keep the poor poor just to keep a lid on sex that they have never been able to control outside or inside the church. What can a celibate pope comprehend about sex? books will never do it. The price paid on the war of birth control is as bad as the price paid for the war on drugs.

Nah, I don't buy this excuse. They don't just want to restrict birth control for non-marital sex; they want to restrict it even for the most innocent married couples.

They also know perfectly well that restricting birth control does not make people just stop having sex. Their problem is that people will have sex that is not church-approves and get no punishment for it. The idea of women just enjoying sex for its own sake makes them angry.

[bananacat]

This is not true. The Church allows the pill to be used for medical reasons, basically any reason you would want to take the pill for besides the obvious use(if you get cramps, you can take the pill, depression after having a baby, pimples.... ect).

No. Just, no. I am so sick of separating this into good women versus bad women, or deserving women versus the naughty sluts. Birth control should be available to all women, full stop.

I don't agree with the Catholic Church's stance on this issue at ALL. But a similar plan was passed by DC a few years ago. The Church would have shut down all Catholic hospitals if forced to pay for insurance that cover the pill for family planning purposes(I do not agree with this). The Church will not step down form this issue. Which is SO CRAZY and BACKWARDS. But on the other hand, Congress knew THIS was an issue before and would be again if they didn't change the wording of the bill. It wouldn't be a problem if it allowed the pill for medical reasons(which the Church is REALLLLLLLLLYYYYY liberal about). I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church on this view. I'm just trying to give some insight.

How is this any better than being in the mob? "It's a real nice hospital we got here. It would be a shame to see it closed down." This is precisely the reason why I rarely count religious charity as true charity. If it's this conditional, it's nothing more than paying for power and influence. And if we have a few religious people having tremendous power over our secular government, then there is a big problem here that we need to address. They're no more than outright bullies. Charity, my ass.

Also, the Church agrees with the use of condoms to prevent aids.

I have to disagree with you here. Just a few years ago, the Pope refused to send condoms to Africa.

I know the Church is slow to change, but it has come along way in 50 years. Pope John Paul II worked hard to change the Church for the better. ( I know it still has a long way to go but its moving in the right direction). :)

I don't see much change in the church. What I see is the vast majority of U.S. Catholics simply ignoring official policy, so it seems more progressive but it really isn't.

[FakePigtails]

The NY Times article was updated (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/ca ... al.html?hp). They just keep showing their true colors and pissing me off more and more:

“All the other mandated ‘preventive services’ prevent disease, and pregnancy is not a disease,†the bishops said.

Really? Really? That's how you know this shouldn't be commented much less affected by a bunch of men. Pregnancy may not be a disease but it can still eff up your body, and for a woman still going through school it can mean the end of her education and career. If I were to get pregnant right now it'd be near impossible for me to finish my program and if the child had any problems I could definitely kiss what I'm working for goodbye.

Even without that I have PCOS and the pill keeps me healthier and saner since it does the hormone regulation that my body can't.

Screw them. Why does the government even keep talking with them? Enough is enough.