Nurses at my OBGYN were raving about Courageous.

[formergothardite]

Isn't this the same movie where the man tells his wife that she has to do what he says because he is the leader of the family?

[lilwriter85]

Isn't this the same movie where the man tells his wife that she has to do what he says because he is the leader of the family?

I haven't seen the movie yet, but there was one poster who saw this movie months ago through some special screening thing that happened before the theatrical release. I kind of remember her saying something about a character saying he was the leader.

[donks]

Isn't this the same movie where the man tells his wife that she has to do what he says because he is the leader of the family?

Now, see... I would have MAJOR problems with that. MAJOR. My husband doesn't 'own' me, just as I don't 'own' him. We discuss plans of action and then make a decision together.

[donks]

I am FUMING now.

[lilwriter85]

And there's just as much scripture, if not more, pointing to the fact that the people in the Bible didn't give a damn about dead fetuses. There are passages in the bible where the only punishment for causing a woman to miscarry is a fine (whereas, if you hurt the woman herself, your injury must match her's), passages where holy men are instructed to cause unfaithful women to miscarry, passages where god's chosen people are instructed to slice pregnant women open and dash babies' heads against rocks, and passages to support that even actual, born babies weren't counted as members of the tribe until they are (iirc) a month old.

It has the same meaning as "whine more". You're bitching and moaning about how you're so alone as a righteous Christian here at FJ and being super passive-aggressive about it to boot. Take this for instance-

Passive-aggressive as hell. And just for the record, I don't know any perfect husbands or perfect fathers, but I also don't know any crappy enough to need a Z-list movie to motivate them into being better dads.

This. I don't think anyone here has ever said that their husbands and fathers are perfect. My dad struggled with alcoholism for several years before going to rehab. He became a better dad afterwards and if he saw Courageous, I could picture him laughing at the purity ring scene. The SBC does want to motivate people through their movies, but I think the reasons their movies get disliked is because of the story and character development.

[SimplyMe]

And there's just as much scripture, if not more, pointing to the fact that the people in the Bible didn't give a damn about dead fetuses. There are passages in the bible where the only punishment for causing a woman to miscarry is a fine (whereas, if you hurt the woman herself, your injury must match her's), passages where holy men are instructed to cause unfaithful women to miscarry, passages where god's chosen people are instructed to slice pregnant women open and dash babies' heads against rocks, and passages to support that even actual, born babies weren't counted as members of the tribe until they are (iirc) a month old.

It has the same meaning as "whine more". You're bitching and moaning about how you're so alone as a righteous Christian here at FJ and being super passive-aggressive about it to boot. Take this for instance-

Passive-aggressive as hell. And just for the record, I don't know any perfect husbands or perfect fathers, but I also don't know any crappy enough to need a Z-list movie to motivate them into being better dads.

I will look up all of those passages to tonight- I suspect though, they are mostly all in the Old Testament.

I will take the "bitch moar" to heart. I would never claim to be a "righteous Christian." If I came across that way, it was unintentional. The passive-aggressive about everyone seeming so "perfect" here, I'll admit to. I've enjoyed many discussions here over several years, but frequently get the idea that so many people here think they parent perfectly, have perfect religious- or rather non-religious beliefs- are perfectly open minded, use perfect grammar and spelling, etc and have a way of making a person with a dissenting opinion, or who aren't grammar-queens feel like their views don't matter or they must have attended the SOTDRT. Just because I am pro-life (or anti-choice as you wish) doesn't mean I think those who are pro-choice are horrible people.

I have to pick up my son from school and run errands, so this will be my last post for a while, but I'll say that just because this movie may be a Z-list film, doesn't mean it doesn't have the ability to change hearts. I'm glad you don't know any "horrible" fathers- I happen to know some not-so-fabulous ones who would maybe have their hearts changed by this movie. Call me names about that, whatever, I can take it.

[formergothardite]

I think most people don't care you want to be all pro-life in your own personal life, but when you start forcing your beliefs on others, yes there will be issues.

[Austin]

I will get blasted here for saying this here, but I put my big girl panties on this morning and can take it- I saw Courageous with my husband this past weekend and we both enjoyed it. For starters, we are Christians (not Fundies, though), and attend an evangelical church so, for us, the terminology and general faith aspects of the movie are not foreign and don't bother or offend. We both grew up Holiday Catholics, so when we first attended a Protestant church, phrases like "walking with God," or being "saved," weirded us out- I understand why that is for many people and why the concepts in this movie would seem kooky to many people. For us though, this wasn't an issue. The acting starts out pretty horrible, but in some regards, they seem to warm up a bit and improve over the course of the movie. Keep in mind that none of these actors are professionals and more than half of them are volunteers, many from SBC. Although they had the largest budget yet for this movie, it was still a low budget film, I think running on a $2 mil budget, which for a full length movie, is really nothing. No it's not Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise and yes, at times the acting is downright terrible by normal standards, but again, it's a low budget film, this is to be expected.

Where are all the Christians on this board, I didn't think I was the only one? I can't possibly be the only person at FJ who didn't mind this movie???

My sons are Christians. Evangelical Lutherans now, but we raised them fundie-lite in their earlier years. So the terminology and faith aspects of the movie are not foreign to them, so that wasn't the issue for them, either. All I know is that they thought it was "transparent" and "stupid", but I can tell you that something is going on with this movie that is not a matter of just not understanding the terminology and faith aspects.

Just because a person doesn't care for this movie does not mean they are not a Christian, in answer to your last two questions. You are certainly not the only Christian on FJ - lol.

[formergothardite]

Austin, did your sons say if it had a scene where the husband told the wife that she had to obey him? If it does have that scene I wonder how some of the fans of it on this thread feel about that.

[valsa]

I will look up all of those passages to tonight- I suspect though, they are mostly all in the Old Testament.

It's the same god. I really doubt he changed his opinions on dead fetuses or when life begins.

I'm glad you don't know any "horrible" fathers- I happen to know some not-so-fabulous ones who would maybe have their hearts changed by this movie.

No, you don't. You know some sucky fathers who get warm fuzzies from the oh-so-easy activity of watching a crappy movie and who then claim they're going to emulate the characters in said movie, only to realize in less than a week that changing yourself takes real work, after which they revert back to their old ways.

If someone really wants to do something, it wouldn't take watching a movie to make them do it. And if watching a movie is what makes someone want to do something, they don't want to do it enough.

[lilwriter85]

My sons are Christians. Evangelical Lutherans now, but we raised them fundie-lite in their earlier years. So the terminology and faith aspects of the movie are not foreign to them, so that wasn't the issue for them, either. All I know is that they thought it was "transparent" and "stupid", but I can tell you that something is going on with this movie that is not a matter of just not understanding the terminology and faith aspects.

Just because a person doesn't care for this movie does not mean they are not a Christian, in answer to your last two questions. You are certainly not the only Christian on FJ - lol.

Good post Austin. A lot of Christians also dislike this film. The IMDB thread link that was posted in this thread has several comments from Christians who disliked the movie for various reasons. My friend has watched the previous SBC films at her church and dislikes them a lot and she often skips out on the church movie nights if they show any of the SBC movies. Several Christian bloggers have written about not liking Christian movies.

[Austin]

Austin, did your sons say if it had a scene where the husband told the wife that she had to obey him? If it does have that scene I wonder how some of the fans of it on this thread feel about that.

No, they really didn't say. Stupid (actually, stupidest-ass) and transparent was all they mentioned. I'll ask them about it more tonight, though.

[Olivia]

No way We watched fireproof, and facing the giants. You are probably saying that because of Christian based believe it or not Aaron asked to watch ths one he loved the other 2 as well and only 7 yrs old hmm

lol. I totally cannot read this. What is a "Christian based believe"? And does God hate punctuation?

[debrand]

There is actually a lot of scripture to support the idea that life begins at conception. I'll list some later today. And by pro-life, the references is typically thought to mean giving a fetus a chance at life, not punishment for things done later in life. Two different topics. I'd be curious to know of Christian churches that were not pro-life in the common sense of the word.

What do you mean by "bitch moar?" I take that it's an insult, but I don't understand it.

Edited for grammar error.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_biblh.htm

This sounds like abortion to me

Numbers 5:12-31 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water..... This passage describes a ritual that a husband could force his wife to endure if he suspected that she had engaged in an adulterous relationship. He would take her and an offering of barely meal to the tabernacle, where the priest would make a magical drink consisting of holy water and sweepings from the tabernacle floor. He would have the woman drink the water while he recited a curse on her. The curse would state that her abdomen would swell and her thigh waste away if she had committed adultery. Otherwise, the curse would have no effect. If she were pregnant at this time, the curse would certainly induce an abortion. Yet nobody seems to have been concerned about the fate of any embryo or fetus that was present. Needless to say, there was no similar magical test that a woman could require her husband to take if she suspected him of adultery.

[kpmom]

SimplyMe, I belong to an Episcopal church and they don't consider themselves "pro-life". They consider themselves "we trust you to make your own decisions on this very personal matter."

[formergothardite]

I found this article about the movie. It points out a big problem with the theme of the movie is that men are encouraged to take responsibility FOR their wives, not WITH their wives. Men are the ones to make the decisions, not women.

http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2011/1 ... the-movie/

[Boogalou]

SimplyMe, I belong to an Episcopal church and they don't consider themselves "pro-life". They consider themselves "we trust you to make your own decisions on this very personal matter."

Yes, this. There are many churches that are not "pro-life". The United Church of Canada is also not pro-life, in fact (if I am reading correctly) they advocate for greater access to abortion. If you are interested you can read more about it here:

http://www.united-church.ca/beliefs/policies/1990/a111

http://www.united-church.ca/beliefs/policies/1980/c511

[lilwriter85]

I found this article about the movie. It points out a big problem with the theme of the movie is that men are encouraged to take responsibility FOR their wives, not WITH their wives. Men are the ones to make the decisions, not women.

http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2011/1 ... the-movie/

Thanks for posting that. It was a good article and it pointed out the flaws of the movie.

[emmiedahl]

SimplyMe, there is more abortion supporting pro-choice POVs than pro-life ones.

And let's say the Bible did clearly say abortion is wrong (which it really does not). It also says a lot of stuff. If you can stop me from having an abortion, why can't I make you sacrifice a turtle after every menstrual period? I mean, that is actually very clearly stated in the Bible. Obviously God cares a lot more about post-menstrual turtle sacrifice than he does about abortion!

Or, maybe, you can stop trying to make other people obey your particular interpretation of a controversial religious book.

[formergothardite]

SimplyMe, do you want to make abortion illegal? Because, like I said before, just being pro-life in your own personal life usually doesn't earn any snark. It is when people try and force their personal beliefs onto the bodies of other people that it gets snark worthy.

[Dee-Dee]

I found this article about the movie. It points out a big problem with the theme of the movie is that men are encouraged to take responsibility FOR their wives, not WITH their wives. Men are the ones to make the decisions, not women.

This is not a movie that talks about men taking control FOR their wives no does it at ALL diminish the role that women have to play in a marriage or in regards to raising their children. It simply raises the fact that men, as fathers and husbands, have a HIGHLY important role to play. Face it, we live in a society where there are a lot of uninvolved dads and many who try and shrink at their responsibility. Courageous calls men to meet that challenge. At no point in the movie are any of the characters showing making decisions against their wives or usurping their wives.

[kpmom]

According to the link formergothardite posted, the movie does indeed talk about men taking control for their wives.

Here is an example;

The main characters challenge themselves to “step it up†as fathers, and sign a resolution that begins with: “I do solemnly resolve before God to take full responsibility for myself, my wife, and my children.â€

Why would one adult need to take responsibility for another?

[formergothardite]

Direct quote from the movie:

I do solemnly resolve before God to take full responsibility for myself, my wife, and my children.

I WILL bless my children and teach them to love God with all of their hearts, all of their minds, and all of their strength. I WILL train them to honor authority and live responsibly

One day, I'll give you away to another man, and I want that man to love God more than anything. Because if he does, then he'll love you. And I know how young men think. They want to win your heart, but they don't know how to treasure it. So I'd like to make an agreement with you. Jade, if you'll trust me with your heart, and allow me to approve any young man that desires to have more than friendship with you, I promise to take care of you and give you my full blessing when God shows us the right one."

Nothing in there about working with the wife or the mother being involved with the daughter's "heart".

[Dee-Dee]

I guess that's where we would differ in opinions. As a Christian I do believe that the man has a role in the family to step up and provide and care for his family. As a female lawyer I in no way put myself in the same category as they fundy submissive women often talked about, but I do believe that men and women are given separate and distinct roles in scripture. I consider and oath that includes "taking responsibility" to be quite different from an extreme patriarchal society where the woman is never allowed to make decisions or whose thoughts are never taken into consideration. I did not get that feeling whatsoever from this film - although I could see how others coming from a different perspective might.

Also does a mom have to be involved in every conversation a father has with his daughter?

[Terrie]

I grew up in a congregationalist church that was very pro-choice. It's far from unheard of. If you think there's not such thing, I'd say you're probably more fundie than you think.