Nurses at my OBGYN were raving about Courageous.

[kpmom]

Also does a mom have to be involved in every conversation a father has with his daughter?

But they are talking about a major, life altering decision, i.e., who to date/marry.

[jericho]

Direct quote from the movie:

I do solemnly resolve before God to take full responsibility for myself, my wife, and my children.

I WILL bless my children and teach them to love God with all of their hearts, all of their minds, and all of their strength. I WILL train them to honor authority and live responsibly

One day, I'll give you away to another man, and I want that man to love God more than anything. Because if he does, then he'll love you. And I know how young men think. They want to win your heart, but they don't know how to treasure it. So I'd like to make an agreement with you. Jade, if you'll trust me with your heart, and allow me to approve any young man that desires to have more than friendship with you, I promise to take care of you and give you my full blessing when God shows us the right one."

Nothing in there about working with the wife or the mother being involved with the daughter's "heart".

Is responsibility the same as control? Also, lets not attack something for what it doesn't say.

[Austin]

Why is it such a difficult concept that two people can agree to come together, build a life together, and both take responsibility for all within it? Why does one or the other have to "take responsibility"?

[Austin]

Is responsibility the same as control? Also, lets not attack something for what it doesn't say.

Yes, it is, practically speaking. If I have a responsbility at work, presumably I've been given that responsibility because I have control over getting it done. If I don't have control over its completion, it can't fairly be assigned to me as my responsibility.

[formergothardite]

Is responsibility the same as control? Also, lets not attack something for what it doesn't say.

Jericho is back! Anyway. My husband doesn't need to have responsibility over me. We do need to work together to have responsibility of our children, something this movie seems to be lacking. Why does the Dad need to have his daughter's heart and not the mom. Is the mom not important?

[slickcat79]

One day, I'll give you away to another man, and I want that man to love God more than anything. Because if he does, then he'll love you. And I know how young men think. They want to win your heart, but they don't know how to treasure it. So I'd like to make an agreement with you. Jade, if you'll trust me with your heart, and allow me to approve any young man that desires to have more than friendship with you, I promise to take care of you and give you my full blessing when God shows us the right one.

Ugh...gag How old is "Jade"?

[Boogalou]

One day, I'll give you away to another man,

Um, what? This is screwed up for so many reasons.

1. It assumes that a father somehow owns his daughter.

2. It assumes that the daughter'd future husband will then somehow own her.

3. It assumes the daughter will get married.

4. It assumes the daughter will marry a man.

5. It probably assumes many other things, but that's just off the top of my head.

That line is terrible.

[formergothardite]

Um, what? This is screwed up for so many reasons.

1. It assumes that a father somehow owns his daughter.

2. It assumes that the daughter'd future husband will then somehow own her.

3. It assumes the daughter will get married.

4. It assumes the daughter will marry a man.

5. It probably assumes many other things, but that's just off the top of my head.

That line is terrible.

I know. And why is it always the father and daughter? Where was the talk with the teen son about letting his father keep his heart? Oh right, only the women get "owned", the boys can go do whatever.

By the way, for those who forgot Jericho, he is the one who thought sending a single mother and her children back to the early 1900's where they would work in factories was a grand idea. And yes, I'm always going to bring it up because it shows what sort of person Jericho is and people will know who they are talking to.

[JesusFightClub]

Yeah. Jericho, was there a scene where a mum told a teenage son that she was going to give him away to a woman someday and he had to trust her, stay pure and keep his heart with her until then? Or a scene where a dad tells a son the same thing?

If not, why d'you reckon that might be?

[formergothardite]

I guess that's where we would differ in opinions. As a Christian I do believe that the man has a role in the family to step up and provide and care for his family. As a female lawyer I in no way put myself in the same category as they fundy submissive women often talked about, but I do believe that men and women are given separate and distinct roles in scripture. I consider and oath that includes "taking responsibility" to be quite different from an extreme patriarchal society where the woman is never allowed to make decisions or whose thoughts are never taken into consideration. I did not get that feeling whatsoever from this film - although I could see how others coming from a different perspective might.

Also does a mom have to be involved in every conversation a father has with his daughter?

Do you also think that a father has his son's heart? Why is it always daughters? You can't give away something that you don't own, do you think a father owns his daughter?

[jericho]

I have no doubt that Sherwood Pictures believes that biblically a father is the head of the household. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't condemn the film for something it didn't portray. (not showing a scene with a mother and son). The film's theme was aimed at fathers, and that's what they focused on.

[formergothardite]

I condemn the film for showing a father saying he "owns" his daughter and will give her away.

[formergothardite]

It sends the message that women are too stupid to think for themselves, so they need to have a man to be responsible for them. Crappy message all around.

[JesusFightClub]

I have no doubt that Sherwood Pictures believes that biblically a father is the head of the household. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't condemn the film for something it didn't portray. (not showing a scene with a mother and son). The film's theme was aimed at fathers, and that's what they focused on.

OK then, do you believe a scene with similar words between a mum and a son or a dad and a son would appear in another Sherwood Pictures film? After all, if dad's the head of the household, he no doubt would also expect his son to promise his purity and his heart to him, right?

[emmiedahl]

you shouldn't condemn the film for something it didn't portray. (not showing a scene with a mother and son). The film's theme was aimed at fathers, and that's what they focused on.

So, do you think that mothers should transfer authority of their sons to their wives at marriage?

[jericho]

So, do you think that mothers should transfer authority of their sons to their wives at marriage?

Personally I believe its both parents that should give their children away.

[formergothardite]

Even if the movie was aimed at encouraging dads to be better fathers, "owning" your daughter and giving her away is not being a better father, it is creepy. And taking responsibilty of your wife isn't being a better father or husband, it is again, creepy.

[emmiedahl]

Question: if my husband takes responsibility for me, does that mean he can do my Cell Biology homework? What about the laundry?

[donks]

Are you married, Jericho?

[Trynn]

Question: if my husband takes responsibility for me, does that mean he can do my Cell Biology homework? What about the laundry?

And, because I really like cookie monster...

:character-cookiemonster:

Personally, I choose not to ever have an abortion. Ever. Would I insist on making it illegal for others to choose otherwise? No. That doesn't mean I am necessarily going to agree with someone's personal decision, however, I'm not going to force my personal beliefs on someone, or even be judgmental in any way towards a person who has had an abortion.

And I agree that, if a father needs to be asked permission to marry his daughter, then

1. The boy must also ask his own parents' permission.

2. the boy must also seek permission from the mother. It seems like the mothers never get a say in things :( I think I only know one guy that asked BOTH parents before dating his soon to be wife.

[formergothardite]

Is responsibility the same as control? Also, lets not attack something for what it doesn't say.

Can you explain how one can have responsibily over another person without having control?

[ThisOlGirl]

By the way, for those who forgot Jericho, he is the one who thought sending a single mother and her children back to the early 1900's where they would work in factories was a grand idea. And yes, I'm always going to bring it up because it shows what sort of person Jericho is and people will know who they are talking to.

Isn't Jericho one of Non-Duggar Josiah's minions?

[formergothardite]

Isn't Jericho one of Non-Duggar Josiah's minions?

No, that was snavewolf. Jericho has been around here for some time.

[jericho]

Are you married, Jericho?

Yes

[jericho]

Can you explain how one can have responsibily over another person without having control?

Being responsible for your family is to take the initiative to care for every aspect of their needs. Their safety, happiness, health, etc. Taking control would go against everything that is being responsible. It would be a detriment to their well being.