Nurses at my OBGYN were raving about Courageous.

[donks]

Yes

And do you make all the decisions?

[Anxious Girl]

Can somebody give me a quick summary of this movie, please? I'm a bit confused. The trailer just made me more confused, for some odd reason. I have heard from lurking on this thread that this movie is hiding its pro-life message under its main message to encourage dads to participate more in their childrens' lives. How does it do that? I'm sorry if it looks like I want people to spoonfeed me...

P.S: If anybody here's interested, here's a Catholic Christian pro-choice website that I found recently in the last couple of days: www.catholicsforchoice.org.

[jericho]

And do you make all the decisions?

Ha! No way.

[donks]

Ha! No way.

Well ok then. So you aren't 'responsible' for your wife.

Do you have kids?

[formergothardite]

Being responsible for your family is to take the initiative to care for every aspect of their needs. Their safety, happiness, health, etc. Taking control would go against everything that is being responsible. It would be a detriment to their well being.

Why does my husband need to take care for every aspect of my needs? And why doesn't a wife need to do the same? I don't need my husband to be responsible for my happiness. One thing I have learned is that it is unhealthy to go around depending on someone else to make you happy. That is why a friend of mine is on her third marriage, she has never learned just to be happy with herself, she believes it is a man's responsibility to make her happy and it never works out.

My husband also isn't responsible for my health. I'd pack my stuff and leave the second he came home and told me I needed to exercise more and eat healthier. I am responsible for my own health. We ar both responsible for making sure our children are healthy, it isn't just a man's job.

And as for safety, I don't need him to be in charge of saving me either. That is one of the things he likes about me is that I am not some damsel in distress waiting for a man to take responsibility for me.

So even in the way you are describing, a man taking responsibility of his wife is unhealthy for both the man and the woman. When couples are in a relationship, they need to take responsibiliy for thing WITH each other. This movie sends a horrible message.

[debrand]

Personally I believe its both parents that should give their children away.

I think that you are dodging the question about mother's owning their son's heart. Admit it, there is something incestous sounding about owning your child's heart or purity. You're so used to hearing it from men to daughters that you've probably never thought about it before. However, when the genders are switched the situation has an overly controlling, incestous feel, doesn't it?

What amazes me is that the entire "Christian' purity subject is not actually Christian. Nowhere in the bible does it state that the dad is responsible for his children's virginity. This is something that modern Christians made up because-for some weird reason- conservative males are very uncomfortable with being men and need to feel manly.

[debrand]

But they are talking about a major, life altering decision, i.e., who to date/marry.

When it comes to being owned, I damn well think that the mother should be! Such behavior actually crosses a line into mental abuse. The fact that some people can't see this is a measure of how screwed up the purity movement is.

[debrand]

What she does with her vagina is not her father's business. It is not his place to approve men for her. That is treating her like a child and further shows a disgust for the job that he and his wife have done raising her. How can a parent claim to have done a decent job of raising their kids when they can't even trust them to decide on basics like who to love?

[debrand]

[being responsible for your family is to take the initiative to care for every aspect of their needs. Their safety, happiness, health, etc. Taking control would go against everything that is being responsible. It would be a detriment to their well being.

In reality, how does this work with adults? For example, I like doing things to make my husband happy. By nature, I am a care giver so I love doing things for people. It is how I show love. However, I don't consider myself responsible for making my husband happy. If my husband is miserable or depressed, I can't force him to be cheerful. Further, it would drain me emotionally to think that I was responsible for his feelings.

I suggest to my husband that he eat more healthy. At night I cook healthy meals. However, if he chooses to eat unhealthy snacks or ignore what I make and buy a Big Mac, that is on him.

Because I respect him , I know that my husband is responsible for his own emotions, safety etc. I can encourage him but I can't put myself in the role of being responsible for his choices. The same is true in reverse for him toward me. it is not his place to feel responsible for my taking my cholesterol medication, for example. He can remind me but, because I am an adult, he has to accept that the responsiblity ultimately is my own.

[formergothardite]

I am pretty darn sure that if the scene had been with a mother telling her son that he needs to trust her with his heart and not even hang out with a girl she doesn't approve of, or even if it had been a father telling his son that, there would not people people writing about how they were moved to tears. People would have gotten up and walked out of the movie because it is so icky sounding.

America is just so used to idea that women and teen girls are "owned" by their fathers and that he has control over their vagina that people don't see how horrible this scene truly is.

So the defenders of this movie please come and show how this isn't icky.

[formergothardite]

When I am on a diet I'll ask him not to bring junk food into the house, but this isn't him taking responsibilty for my health, this is him helping me out because he loves me.

[kayray]

Why does my husband need to take care for every aspect of my needs? And why doesn't a wife need to do the same? I don't need my husband to be responsible for my happiness. One thing I have learned is that it is unhealthy to go around depending on someone else to make you happy. That is why a friend of mine is on her third marriage, she has never learned just to be happy with herself, she believes it is a man's responsibility to make her happy and it never works out.

My husband also isn't responsible for my health. I'd pack my stuff and leave the second he came home and told me I needed to exercise more and eat healthier. I am responsible for my own health. We ar both responsible for making sure our children are healthy, it isn't just a man's job.

And as for safety, I don't need him to be in charge of saving me either. That is one of the things he likes about me is that I am not some damsel in distress waiting for a man to take responsibility for me.

So even in the way you are describing, a man taking responsibility of his wife is unhealthy for both the man and the woman. When couples are in a relationship, they need to take responsibility for thing WITH each other. This movie sends a horrible message.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Personally I believe its both parents that should give their children away.

Personally, I really do not like the whole "giving away" of the bride thing at all. I do not think it is better by having both mother and father "give her away". I know this is common terminology in weddings and I do not mean to attack anyone here who may have had these words as part of their ceremony, but I truly do not see how full-grown and independent adults could hear those words and still think it is somehow romantic or a lovely gesture. To me it still implies ownership of another human being which I do not think ever applies never mind their age or sex. Never mind in some situations it just seems peculiar to have a 30-something year old being asked "who gives you away", etc.

I am married, and had a wedding ceremony, but we certainly did not have any "giving away" going on!

[formergothardite]

We didn't do the whole giving away thing either. I also didn't say I would obey my husband.

[SpeshulTaterTot]

I have a couple of friends who wanted to do the giving away thing here in Germany, and the pastors refused. My best friend got a long rant about how this is not America, and everybody just waches too many Hollywood movies.

[jericho]

Interesting note to this discussion. Courageous is the #1 DVD in sales.

North American Domestic DVD Sales Chart for Week Ending Jan 22, 2012

Rank Prev. Rank Title Units this Week % Change Total Units Sales this Week Total Sales Weeks in Release

1 (-) Courageous

381,033 -.-% 381,033 $6,473,751 $6,473,751 1

2 (-) Abduction

195,432 -.-% 195,432 $2,929,526 $2,929,526 1

3 (-) The Ides of March

180,152 -.-% 180,152 $3,060,782 $3,060,782 1

4 (1) Moneyball

174,780 -61.4% 627,257 $3,156,527 $10,844,111 2

5 (-) Kevin Hart: Laugh at My Pain

118,196 -.-% 118,196 $1,535,366 $1,535,366 1

6 (8) The Help

80,817 -20.9% 3,755,144 $1,471,678 $64,456,187 7

7 (4) Contagion

79,826 -45.0% 617,921 $1,196,592 $9,262,636 3

8 (6) Dolphin Tale

72,968 -32.9% 1,249,231 $1,093,790 $18,725,973 5

9 (2) Boardwalk Empire: The Complete First Season 70,415 -58.4% 239,732 $2,710,273 $7,788,090 2

10 (3) Killer Elite

69,462 -57.8% 234,073 $1,259,346 $4,056,087 2

11 (12) Rise of the Planet of the Apes

49,763 -34.1% 1,946,489 $888,270 $34,534,464 6

12 (-) Bridesmaids

48,582 -.-% 4,051,288 $728,244 $55,423,941 18

13 (9) The Big Bang Theory: The Complete Fourth Season 46,943 -53.6% 976,386 $727,147 $23,355,123 19

14 (5) The Hangover Part II

43,438 -64.7% 3,286,173 $547,753 $42,153,227 7

15 (18) The Lion King

41,837 -26.8% - $873,314 - 882

16 (11) Kung Fu Panda 2

36,960 -51.2% 1,895,224 $660,845 $31,001,912 6

17 (20) Beauty and the Beast

35,322 -20.2% - $646,746 - 485

18 (21) Harry Potter: The Complete Collection Years 1-7 31,740 -27.6% 1,071,381 $1,566,369 $54,516,402 11

19 (17) Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2

29,835 -51.9% 6,243,654 $440,961 $85,601,051 11

20 (22) Colombiana

28,234 -30.9% 405,375 $507,930 $6,706,832 5

[formergothardite]

So Jericho, why does a husband have to be responsible for every aspect of his wife's life? And after reading the issues people have brought up with a man doing that, do you agree or disagree?

[amydamy]

Interesting note to this discussion. Courageous is the #1 DVD in sales.

North American Domestic DVD Sales Chart for Week Ending Jan 22, 2012

Rank Prev. Rank Title Units this Week % Change Total Units Sales this Week Total Sales Weeks in Release

1 (-) Courageous

381,033 -.-% 381,033 $6,473,751 $6,473,751 1

2 (-) Abduction

195,432 -.-% 195,432 $2,929,526 $2,929,526 1

3 (-) The Ides of March

180,152 -.-% 180,152 $3,060,782 $3,060,782 1

4 (1) Moneyball

174,780 -61.4% 627,257 $3,156,527 $10,844,111 2

5 (-) Kevin Hart: Laugh at My Pain

118,196 -.-% 118,196 $1,535,366 $1,535,366 1

6 (8) The Help

80,817 -20.9% 3,755,144 $1,471,678 $64,456,187 7

7 (4) Contagion

79,826 -45.0% 617,921 $1,196,592 $9,262,636 3

8 (6) Dolphin Tale

72,968 -32.9% 1,249,231 $1,093,790 $18,725,973 5

9 (2) Boardwalk Empire: The Complete First Season 70,415 -58.4% 239,732 $2,710,273 $7,788,090 2

10 (3) Killer Elite

69,462 -57.8% 234,073 $1,259,346 $4,056,087 2

11 (12) Rise of the Planet of the Apes

49,763 -34.1% 1,946,489 $888,270 $34,534,464 6

12 (-) Bridesmaids

48,582 -.-% 4,051,288 $728,244 $55,423,941 18

13 (9) The Big Bang Theory: The Complete Fourth Season 46,943 -53.6% 976,386 $727,147 $23,355,123 19

14 (5) The Hangover Part II

43,438 -64.7% 3,286,173 $547,753 $42,153,227 7

15 (18) The Lion King

41,837 -26.8% - $873,314 - 882

16 (11) Kung Fu Panda 2

36,960 -51.2% 1,895,224 $660,845 $31,001,912 6

17 (20) Beauty and the Beast

35,322 -20.2% - $646,746 - 485

18 (21) Harry Potter: The Complete Collection Years 1-7 31,740 -27.6% 1,071,381 $1,566,369 $54,516,402 11

19 (17) Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2

29,835 -51.9% 6,243,654 $440,961 $85,601,051 11

20 (22) Colombiana

28,234 -30.9% 405,375 $507,930 $6,706,832 5

Yeah and abduction is a shitty movie and made almost 3 million what does that have to do with anything.

[emmiedahl]

Courageous is a lot newer than most of those movies, so I am not surprised.

[thoughtful]

Courageous is a lot newer than most of those movies, so I am not surprised.

Not to mention that it is not on its own, depending on its merits to be purchased by individuals who just like the film. Churches and other groups are buying a lot of them, I'm sure, using it to preach.

America is just so used to idea that women and teen girls are "owned" by their fathers and that he has control over their vagina that people don't see how horrible this scene truly is.

Not the part of America in which I grew up, I'm happy to say. I think that idea would have been bizarre to everyone around me starting about 40 years ago, if not earlier.

I don't even think my grandfathers and great-grandfathers considered themselves owners of their daughters' purity.

[hathorlive]

UGH. I started my new job today at a hospital that is largely funded by local government and the CEO came to talk to us. Among other awesome things, he said that we should all approach our jobs as our ministry and always remember that we are only accountable to our creator. I know I should fight this, but I need the job and I highly doubt HR will tell the CEO that he's wrong. Damn you Texas, you've really worn down my fight. I can't wait to move out of state.

ROTF....My best friend just moved from the big D to Michigan and the first thing she noticed was not the snow or the cold but that no one at worked 'praised Jesus'. She's used to at least 5 or 6 a day and was shocked to see how secular and "normal" the people in her new state were. There's always hope. I plan on leaving my state for some godless nirvana as soon as possible.

I'm betting I'm still a freaking tater tot. I hate tater tots.

[Elle]

I want to find a torrent of this movie to watch it just for the WTF-factor.

[Elle]

You should mention to your DR that youre considering changing practices if they are so opposed (or uneducated) to women's rights and reproductive choices.

I personally would have told the doctor I was uncomfortable with memoirs of his staff trying to draw me into what was basically a Christianity discussion instead of doing work.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I think that you are dodging the question about mother's owning their son's heart. Admit it, there is something incestous sounding about owning your child's heart or purity. You're so used to hearing it from men to daughters that you've probably never thought about it before. However, when the genders are switched the situation has an overly controlling, incestous feel, doesn't it?

Shades of Norman Bates and his mother.

[FloraDoraDolly]

ROTF....My best friend just moved from the big D to Michigan and the first thing she noticed was not the snow or the cold but that no one at worked 'praised Jesus'. She's used to at least 5 or 6 a day and was shocked to see how secular and "normal" the people in her new state were. There's always hope. I plan on leaving my state for some godless nirvana as soon as possible.

I'm betting I'm still a freaking tater tot. I hate tater tots.

I am from Michigan and no, you don't hear that kind of religious talk in most places. In my own life, I only encounter it when I'm around older African-Americans who grew up down south. They'll tell you God is good and to have a blessed day. I think it's nice, but these are casual encounters, not situations where a boss or a professor is trying to impose his/her religious beliefs on me.

[donks]

Well ok then. So you aren't 'responsible' for your wife.

Do you have kids?

?