Mark Driscoll whines about why no one likes his sex book

[Brainsample]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/2 ... -sex-book/

Oh, yes. Everyone thinks sex is gross. What a Narcissistic nutball.

[Austin]

There are some who think about almost nothing else but sex, treating it as a kind of god. This can happen in the form of addiction to sex or porn, severe promiscuity, adultery or participating in various sexual acts that the Bible speaks against, making personal preference and desire more important than what God says about sex.

Projection much, Marky?

[Brainsample]

How did this man get to be a pastor and why does anyone want anything to do with him -- unless they just like to go for the titillation in X rated evening services because it breaks up the monotony.

What a total zero.

[dcmhejbl62]

We also knew the criticism would come from every direction, as some people would think we went too far and others would think we didn’t go far enough.

Who in the world has said they didn't go far ENOUGH??? Honestly, there's MORE he thought he should say?

I really don't want the layers peeled off any more than they are with him.

[Hane]

He reminds me of my old (Catholic) choir director, a married man with three kids. On his day job, he was a clinical therapist with a specialty in counseling men with same-sex attraction issues (this was back in the '80s).

When he came flying out of the closet several years ago, I was shocked, I tell you--SHOCKED. ;)

And we'll be seeing Mark exposed for coordinating swingers' clubs in 3...2...1...

[Austin]

For the ladies: Is your man moody and restless? You just need to have more sex with him. He needs it (according to Mark Driscoll - this is from his sex book):

“When I came to the conclusion that the cure for a lot of my moodiness was having more frequent sex with my wife, I simply told her. Yes, it’s that simple…The truth was I needed to have more frequent sex with my wife, and we needed to discuss how that could happen…To make matters worse, seemingly every book I read by Christians on sex and marriage sounded unfair. Nearly every one said the husband had to work very hard to understand his wife, to relate to her and when he did that to her satisfaction then, maybe, she would have sex with him as a sort of reward.â€

Note how it's all about him. They just needed to discuss how it could happen, not IF it should happen, not if SHE's interested in it happening. It's what he NEEDS and him getting sex just as often as he needs it should not be predicated whatsoever on the effort he's put into the relationship (like understanding his wife, relating to her, satisfying her).

[Anxious Girl]

I think the religious leaders who are so obsessed with promoting abstinence (sp?) are more obsessed with sex than those that they are trying to persuade to not have sex untill they are married, in my personal opinion.

[Hane]

I actually attended a couple of mainstream Protestant weddings in which the minister urged the couple not to withhold sex from each other. *squick*

[Anxious Girl]

I actually attended a couple of mainstream Protestant weddings in which the minister urged the couple not to withhold sex from each other. *squick*

I-I don't know why, but that seems more disturbing. :shock: Why did the minister want to embarass the couple by persuading them to have sex in front of the family and friends? *awkward duckling moment is awkward*

[genericJname]

Many couples have honest questions about sex and various sexual acts but struggle to find a pastor willing to teach on these topics.

Umm.. maybe its hard to find a pastor who's up for teaching about various sex acts, because that is a totally weird and inappropriate thing for a pastor to do.

[raineymott]

When we do get around to evaluating sex acts, we ask three simple questions, based upon 1 Corinthians 6:12 in the Bible: 1. Is it lawful? 2. Is it helpful? 3. Is it enslaving?

um, wtf? lawful sex? helpful sex? I mean I can understand the enslaving sex, sorta, like rape perhaps...but wha...?

[JesusFightClub]

Umm.. maybe its hard to find a pastor who's up for teaching about various sex acts, because that is a totally weird and inappropriate thing for a pastor to do.

Er yeah, this! This is what the Internet is for!

If they mean "is it appropriate for a Christian to do", teh bibelz iz ur frend. IIRC, it pretty much tells them in there.

[jenny_islander]

I-I don't know why, but that seems more disturbing. :shock: Why did the minister want to embarass the couple by persuading them to have sex in front of the family and friends? *awkward duckling moment is awkward*

Well, actually, the sex advice for Christians in the NT does boil down to "don't do it unless you're married to your sex partner," "be monogamous, yes both of you, no concubinage or polygyny for Christians," and "don't withhold sex from each other unless you both agreed beforehand that you won't have sex with each other for some defined time." (And the thing that may or may not be "Don't have sex with somebody else of the same assigned gender," but that's a whole other can of worms.) And but so anyway, it's right there in the Bible. Now, talking about it in front of assorted people who don't want to imagine their children/siblings/exes having sex--tacky.

[Brainsample]

I would not be surprised if Driscoll went to a sex therapist with his wife that he would tell them to refrain because the way Driscoll relates to sex seems to convey as unhealthy. If there is no intimacy and only sex, or sex is used to medicate mood instead of build the relationship, then couples are asked to balance sex with other kinds of intimacy instead. I don't see why that's so provocative. If you eat all meat and no veggies, balance the diet. That's a little different than "no sex." But I don't think that Driscoll is into balance.

And the man's needs only he takes right out of the complementarianism playbook. This sounds just like Wilson and Mahaney (and their wives) and all of their "advice." The fix for everything is sex (which fosters addiction via endogenous neurochemicals instead of exogenous chemicals you'd take to numb and escape your circumstances and feelings). A woman was created to be a helpmeet with the purpose of serving men! It's biblical!.

And I suppose that the whole business that Austin mentioned that the book "didn't go far enough" meant that he could describe every salacious detail of the "I see people having sex" visions that he has. Maybe he wanted to go into detail about his own fantasies, too, but he'd offend his Baptist buddies.

[BravaAmica]

Umm.. maybe its hard to find a pastor who's up for teaching about various sex acts, because that is a totally weird and inappropriate thing for a pastor to do.

Um, yeah, it's inappropriate to go to your PASTOR for tips on giving a blow job or performing anal sex. If there are other issues with intimacy, like lack of communication or wondering how to ask/share what you need in bed, that can be done in a general, non-specific way.

But showing up for your pastoral counseling appointment and asking, "So, Padre, what brand of lube do we use for anal?" No effing way.

[dawbs]

For the ladies: Is your man moody and restless? You just need to have more sex with him. He needs it (according to Mark Driscoll - this is from his sex book):

Note how it's all about him. They just needed to discuss how it could happen, not IF it should happen, not if SHE's interested in it happening. It's what he NEEDS and him getting sex just as often as he needs it should not be predicated whatsoever on the effort he's put into the relationship (like understanding his wife, relating to her, satisfying her).

So what would the solution be if the cure for HER moodiness was less sex w/ him?

Oh, wait, her modds don't matter, she should 'keep sweet' 24-7.

[Austin]

So what would the solution be if the cure for HER moodiness was less sex w/ him?

Oh, wait, her modds don't matter, she should 'keep sweet' 24-7.

The whole thing by Driscoll aggravates me, but this part of it enrages me:

The truth was I needed to have more frequent sex with my wife, and we needed to discuss how that could happen…

That is so incredibly demeaning and disrespectful. If my husband came to me and said, "Look, I need more sex. We need to make that happen", I would think I made a terrible mistake in marrying him. In Driscoll's world, there seems to be no discussion of why she wants less sex than he does. Is her appetite for sex not as great as his? Is she fatigued or stressed? What are the barriers to more sex? He doesn't seem to care about any of that, only what she we can do to make that happen.

There are legitimate reaons why couples should discuss their expectations about intimacy, including frequency. Over a long marriage, this is a moving target, and all sorts of factors affect sexual interest in both partners, and it should be discussed. But it should never be, "Look, the truth is that I need more sex and you we need to make that happen".

[dairyfreelife]

For the ladies: Is your man moody and restless? You just need to have more sex with him. He needs it (according to Mark Driscoll - this is from his sex book):

Note how it's all about him. They just needed to discuss how it could happen, not IF it should happen, not if SHE's interested in it happening. It's what he NEEDS and him getting sex just as often as he needs it should not be predicated whatsoever on the effort he's put into the relationship (like understanding his wife, relating to her, satisfying her).

The bolded is disturbing. Those books were unfair because the husband has to actually be a partner, a lover to his wife. He has to satisfy her too and he can't do that. It is definitely all about him. I never would have married his sorry ass. Also, I don't think I would be happy with my SO if he was only trying to be nice and understanding just so I would have more sex with him. I guess because I was under the impression that people should do things to be helpful because they want to listen and understand and help, not for a reward. If she isn't wanting sex, maybe the guy should find out why. Maybe she's exhausted, not feeling well lately, having libido issues, any number of things, but demanding or helping/listening in hopes of sex isn't going to help matters.

Driscoll never says his wife doesn't want to sleep with him, he just wants her to screw him whenever he wants it and doesn't give two shits about her. I can't believe anyone would listen or heed that jerk's advice at all. I can't believe he managed to snag a wife. No woman with a backbone would be able to put up with stupid demands. Also, I think like another poster mentioned above-he ought to see a sex therapist. He has issues because even though he's getting laid, he is still very moody with a firecracker temperment.

Hot-tempered, sex-obsessed, patriarchy follower=major creep vibes.

[hoipolloi]

Don't a bunch of mainstream pastors support Driscoll? If so, why?

[GenerationCedarchip]

Don't a bunch of mainstream pastors support Driscoll? If so, why?

He used to get a lot of support because stylistically he was seen as an example of how a pastor could appeal to a young, urban crowd and supposedly make church relevant to them. I suspect much of his appeal in the mainstream is waning, though I still know a startling number of people who think he's "cool" and don't know what lies under the Mickey Mouse t-shirts.

[Kaylee]

... In Driscoll's world, there seems to be no discussion of why she wants less sex than he does. Is her appetite for sex not as great as his? Is she fatigued or stressed? What are the barriers to more sex? He doesn't seem to care about any of that, only what she we can do to make that happen. ...

The really fucked up part about this is that part of her reluctance, what he calls frigidity, came from being molested when he was younger. A lot of time, getting married and being expected to have sex regularly brings up past issues from things like that. He sort of glosses over that and tries to blame all of their issues on her having slept with a guy once in high school while she was dating him and his feeling so "betrayed" by that (even though he brags about having been sexually active at 15), but that he would even talk about it and then make the other statements he has about their relationship that makes him sound even more like a controlling jerk with no compassion.

[snarkbillie]

Er yeah, this! This is what the Internet is for!

If they mean "is it appropriate for a Christian to do", teh bibelz iz ur frend. IIRC, it pretty much tells them in there.

I did sheepishly ask my pastor what was 'appropriate' in the bedroom when I came out of full fundie into a more liberal church. He said plainly: If you both enjoy it, if it's legal, if it's consensual, it's appropriate.

I feel like that's as much as I needed to know.