Why do fundies want to convert everyone?

[alysee]

I know that most religions want to convert non-members but why don't they just help these ppl in these countries without putting God into the equation.Why can't they just go to a country to build homes without preaching to them? Bah! Don't mind me just an early morning rant after the Bates blog entry.

[maybeizfundie]

Because they want everyone to go to heaven, and believe that Jesus (or their particular understanding of him, depending on the fundy) is the only way there? In the context of that belief, it would be unloving to leave him out of the equation.

[alysee]

Really? isn't heaven a little crowded?

[maybeizfundie]

Not possible. :)

[Daenerys]

I always thought it's weird that they seem to simultaneously want everyone to be like them and love being a 'persecuted' minority group.

[JesusFightClub]

I know that most religions want to convert non-members but why don't they just help these ppl in these countries without putting God into the equation.Why can't they just go to a country to build homes without preaching to them? Bah! Don't mind me just an early morning rant after the Bates blog entry.

It makes perfect sense in the context of their beliefs and they therefore don't have a choice as they see it.

It's like the AR (animal rights) people at the extreme end. If you really believed a rat was the equivalent to a human, and there was a place which used animals in experimentation, wouldn't you have to join the Animal Liberation Front?

Far less illegal ;) but if you really believed everyone around you was heading for a horrible fiery pit to be tormented with no hope of reprieve forever and ever, would you not have to warn them? To show them a path away from it?

This is the least confusing thing about some fundies IMO. It is far more confusing when they don't do it than when they do!

[browngrl]

I think it because of their golden rule: ie do unto others as you would have done to you. This rule presumes that what is right for you is also right for everyone else and what you want is what others want. They want to go to heaven and worship their god so they assume everyone else does too. I wish they would change their golden rule to "do NOT do to others what you would NOT want done to you"

[demgirl]

Because they want everyone to go to heaven, and believe that Jesus (or their particular understanding of him, depending on the fundy) is the only way there? In the context of that belief, it would be unloving to leave him out of the equation.

Here's what I don't get though. When they go witnessing to countries that have populations without Christianity, or their form of Christianity, they can only talk to so many people and it's a pretty small percentage of the population. So, essentially, if you believe that your religion is the only way to be saved from Hell, then you essentially believe the following: God is the Father of all people on Earth. God sends hundreds of millions of his "children" to Earth, knowing full well that they will never have an opportunity to hear the "Truth" of how they are supposed to believe in order to be saved from Hell. Therefore, God predetermines that a huge percentage of people who are born and die will never have even the opportunity to be saved. How can you believe in a God that would do that? That's not a loving or merciful God -- that's some guy who over the millenia has knowingly condemned billions of his "children" to Hell, without even giving them a chance.

[Deleted12]

Here's what I don't get though. When they go witnessing to countries that have populations without Christianity, or their form of Christianity, they can only talk to so many people and it's a pretty small percentage of the population. So, essentially, if you believe that your religion is the only way to be saved from Hell, then you essentially believe the following: God is the Father of all people on Earth. God sends hundreds of millions of his "children" to Earth, knowing full well that they will never have an opportunity to hear the "Truth" of how they are supposed to believe in order to be saved from Hell. Therefore, God predetermines that a huge percentage of people who are born and die will never have even the opportunity to be saved. How can you believe in a God that would do that? That's not a loving or merciful God -- that's some guy who over the millenia has knowingly condemned billions of his "children" to Hell, without even giving them a chance.

This is how Mormonism kind of makes sense. It gets around the idea that God would have two whole continents of people who are just throwaways.

[fundamentalistnomore]

From my own experience, it was a belief that people were going to hell. Attending a IFB church, hell was preached on quite regularly. Add that to going soul winning & listening to others expressing pity on someone who is 'eternally damned.' If you're around that kind of talk consistently, it can be quite depressing.

The church I attended was very heavy on "we are the only denomination that has salvation right."

We were conditioned to dig deeper and see if the person was doubting their salvation to help them see us as right.

[finleeport]

From my perspective, I think its mostly done out of fear, fundies believe that if they don't have as many people to worship God (or their version of God) then there will be disasters and disharmony. The Ancient Romans believed that if the Christians did not honor their Gods, there would be chaos.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Here's what I don't get though. When they go witnessing to countries that have populations without Christianity, or their form of Christianity, they can only talk to so many people and it's a pretty small percentage of the population. So, essentially, if you believe that your religion is the only way to be saved from Hell, then you essentially believe the following: God is the Father of all people on Earth. God sends hundreds of millions of his "children" to Earth, knowing full well that they will never have an opportunity to hear the "Truth" of how they are supposed to believe in order to be saved from Hell. Therefore, God predetermines that a huge percentage of people who are born and die will never have even the opportunity to be saved. How can you believe in a God that would do that? That's not a loving or merciful God -- that's some guy who over the millenia has knowingly condemned billions of his "children" to Hell, without even giving them a chance.

Some versions are not quite as harsh - the people who never have a chance to know the Gospel don't go to hell, exactly, they just never get to know God so are in some sort of limbo I guess. Essentially they get a pass for being ignorant.

That's what I personally ran into, from quite a few missionaries. Which only made me think less of them, I mean, if someone tells people the Gospel all of a sudden they have all these obligations and they have to dress a certain way or change their lives and try to preach to others, etc.

How terrible is it to meddle in peoples' lives and give them obligations like that? Because (by their rules) once these people HAVE heard the Word, now if they don't follow it they ARE doomed to hell. How is that helping anyone? GTFO, was my thought.

Of course there were various kinds of missionaries who all scream loudly and all disagree with each other, so the main impression it made was "huh, they all insist they're right with no actual evidence and they all contradict each other, so it's all bullshit then." Particularly when they'd start going on about how very good people here on earth were surely all doomed because they weren't Christian. Yeah, GTFO pretty much sums up my reaction.

[AtroposHeart]

To be fair if I believed that everyone who didn't share my spiritual beliefs would spend eternity being tortured, I would be witnessing to everyone in sight.

[jenny_islander]

There are two reasons, IME. The more benevolent reason has been discussed in this thread: Because they believe that anybody who doesn't recite a particular prayer is going to burn. The less benevolent reason is that many fundamentalist preachers teach that only when everybody on Earth has said the prayer, or at least been told that they should, can Jesus return. After that anybody who doesn't say the prayer can burn for all they care. (Sort of like a common fundamentalist attitude toward Israel: Israel must be protected because if there isn't a country named Israel, Jesus can't return; after He does return, Jews get to burn and good riddance.)

Note that both teachings assume that only people who have said the prayer are real true Christians. The rest of us are bound for Hell.

[keeperrox]

Gah, I get it from the standpoint that they believe that people who don't believe their version of Christianity are doomed to hell for all eternity, but it's just so hypocritical. They want and expect religious freedom and the ability to worship however they see fit. Yet, they refuse to allow others to do the same. Reason #1497257 why I no longer go to church.

[bananacat]

Their god is a cruel monster who has no problem casting millions of his creations into eternal torture. They want to teach those billions the correct rituals so that they can appease their abusive father-figure and spend eternity in a slightly less awful place, where they will get to be servants to a petty, angry, vengeful god and spend eternity with a bunch of self-righteous blowhards.

[finleeport]

Their god is a cruel monster who has no problem casting millions of his creations into eternal torture. They want to teach those billions the correct rituals so that they can appease their abusive father-figure and spend eternity in a slightly less awful place, where they will get to be servants to a petty, angry, vengeful god and spend eternity with a bunch of self-righteous blowhards.

To quote from Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully"

[Cran]

I'm far less charitable in my opinion. They want to prove that they are RIGHT. And either way, they "win" in their twisted minds: If someone converts, he has seen the light. If people don't, they are showing that the world persecutes TRUE CHRISTIANS TM.

[maybeizfundie]

Here's what I don't get though. When they go witnessing to countries that have populations without Christianity, or their form of Christianity, they can only talk to so many people and it's a pretty small percentage of the population. So, essentially, if you believe that your religion is the only way to be saved from Hell, then you essentially believe the following: God is the Father of all people on Earth. God sends hundreds of millions of his "children" to Earth, knowing full well that they will never have an opportunity to hear the "Truth" of how they are supposed to believe in order to be saved from Hell. Therefore, God predetermines that a huge percentage of people who are born and die will never have even the opportunity to be saved. How can you believe in a God that would do that? That's not a loving or merciful God -- that's some guy who over the millenia has knowingly condemned billions of his "children" to Hell, without even giving them a chance.

Well, I don't believe God would do that. ;) I hain't a Calvinist, for starters. :D

But the non-Calvinist fundy answer to that (or the evangelistic answer to that) is that God is not limited by our human limitations. As individuals obviously each evangelist can only reach a certain number of people. Someone who is evangelizing does it because 1) Jesus said go into all the world and preach the good news and 2) in doing so the evangelist is part of how God reaches others. To not share their version of the good news would be unloving in their eyes. Not because it limits God but because it would be "selfish" to withhold that good news.

Edited for clarity.

[AmyP]

The Great Commission.

Mark 16:15-16

King James Version (KJV)

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[CanadianHippie]

The Great Commission.

So God really does screw over his unsaved 'children'. There's a man I want to consider my 'father'.

[gilora]

I (heart) Richard Dawkins (and Sam Harris).

I tend to take a less benevolent view of witnessing and conversion. I'm not sure how to put it, though. Kind of like if you can convince others that your religion is the only path to heaven, then it kinds of makes you feel better or more secure in your beliefs? Fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong.

[fundamentalistnomore]

Being right does have something to do with it. Unfortunately, one of the people I used to go soul winning with loved to argue with people. It was tough. Most people were polite, sometimes it did reach a point where you could see them trying to get us to leave.

The need for conversion is a personal one. Sure there are some people out there that love the sound of their own voice & being superior. For me it was because I believed that a 'Loving God' would send some person in a remote location who had never heard his name directly to hell.

[bananacat]

I also have another theory, that particularly applies to Mormons but really affects all Evangelicals. Trying to convert complete strangers and failing increases the group cohesion. Two young Mormon boys go knocking on doors, only to get yelled at or ignored time and time again. It reinforces their view that the outside world is hostile and unwelcoming, and they can only really rely on their own group. And this works times a hundred when a group of young Mormons go to some foreign country where they don't even speak the language to do "missions work". They all go through this hardship together and they only have each other. It's a similar experience when Jana and John David (?) went on that trip to somewhere in Asia. Someone thought tofu was the weirdest thing ever, which shows how sheltered they were so they wouldn't handle that experience the same way as some other teens would.

[FuManchu]

I'm not convinced that all of them really want to convert anyone. Doug Phillips, for example, puts a great deal of resources into doing nothing but preaching to the choir and shoring up his own support base by attacking the morals and priorities of society, the government, and other religions: if they converted he wouldn't have nearly so much fun.