Justin and Claire 4: Mini-horses Not Babies

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

 

[Jana814]

Great name for the thread! 

[Idlewild]

The Duggars are well known for being in a fertility cult - I seriously doubt teenage Justin had any ideas other than following his father and brothers into procreation. Hillary Spivey was all in for the marriage - there was still hope of appearing in the show when they got engaged and she proudly announced they had recorded material.

I doubt they have deliberately delayed this long; if there are issues with either one of them I hope they are getting the support they need and I don’t mean a lecture from a church person.

[Cam]

Which one the Duggar siblings is the youngest to have had a baby? I came across a photo of Joy and Austin shortly after their first baby was born. Joy was something like 20 or 21 years old but to me she looks about 17 in the photo. It also appears she gave birth exactly 9 months after the wedding. These people do not mess around.

Edited March 6 by Cam

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Which one the Duggar siblings is the youngest to have had a baby? I came across a photo of Joy and Austin shortly after their first baby was born. Joy was something like 20 or 21 years old but to me she looks about 17 in the photo. It also appears she gave birth exactly 9 months after the wedding. These people do not mess around.

The only 1 decently old as a first time parent was JD ( and Jeremy for a non-Duggar). All the rest have been what many in the US would consider very young first time parents. I think Joy, Kendra, Ben were all barely 20-and Lauren would have been very young too, but had a miscarriage.

Edited March 7 by SassyPants

[EmiSue]

6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

The only 1 decently old as a first time parent was JD ( and Jeremy for an non-Duggar). All the rest have been what many in the US would consider very young first time parents. I think Joy, Kendra, Ben were all barely 20-and Lauren would have been very young too, but had a miscarriage.

Kendra was married just after her 19th birthday and had her first baby before she turned 20. Joy, Lauren, and Ben were all 19 at their weddings and 20 when their first kid was born. Typing all this just blows my mind. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think the ones who rethink being quiverful are already parents. I think it’s because once you actually have a kid, you realize how difficult pregnancy and birth can be, along with the sleepless nights of having a baby, and the constant go go go of having a toddler. Reality sets in when you have a baby and a toddler at the same time. And you realize you just don’t have it in you to have a baby every 18 months until your 40s. And you want to be a good parent to the children that are already born. It’s actually pretty similar to women who have abortions. I believe more than half of the women choosing abortion already have at least one kid. And a lot of times they know they can’t have another and still parent the children already born as well as they want to. It’s too bad these fundies who decide to use birth control don’t realize they have a lot of similar reasons as women who choose abortion. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I also think the finances play a role. Many Duggar kids were born during the dot come boom whereas now the economy is very hostile towards people starting out. Even if they take Jim Bob’s money, buy property, buy used and save the difference it’s not going to go as far. Do they really want to be shopping in thrift stores their whole lives? 

[JDuggs]

8 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I also think the finances play a role. Many Duggar kids were born during the dot come boom whereas now the economy is very hostile towards people starting out. Even if they take Jim Bob’s money, buy property, buy used and save the difference it’s not going to go as far. Do they really want to be shopping in thrift stores their whole lives? 

The Spivey parents seem quite successful. I see Justin having as much of a cut in the family business as Claire’s brothers, including two are still minors. Even if it’s been due to fertility issues, I think it’s a positive that Claire and Justin have had these three years to get to know each other and have a somewhat carefree lifestyle before kids. And I also think that Justin is getting his share of Duggar money too. Whatever Jason and James are getting to afford trips to Europe.

[CultureVulture]

At least mini horses don't expect you to watch their babies when they want to go out to the far pasture and crop a little fresh grass.  

I think they're adorable.  And nice that C & J have the space. Hopefully Claire will compensate for the Duggar tendency to make animals "disappear".   

[Idlewild]

One of the Spivey family has serious health issues- Hilary was complaining that the Christian cover that either Jessa or Jinger was shilling wouldn’t cover their bills for treatment.

[SassyPants]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think the ones who rethink being quiverful are already parents. I think it’s because once you actually have a kid, you realize how difficult pregnancy and birth can be, along with the sleepless nights of having a baby, and the constant go go go of having a toddler. Reality sets in when you have a baby and a toddler at the same time. And you realize you just don’t have it in you to have a baby every 18 months until your 40s. And you want to be a good parent to the children that are already born. It’s actually pretty similar to women who have abortions. I believe more than half of the women choosing abortion already have at least one kid. And a lot of times they know they can’t have another and still parent the children already born as well as they want to. It’s too bad these fundies who decide to use birth control don’t realize they have a lot of similar reasons as women who choose abortion. 

I have a friend who had her first weeks after I had my first. She had a second very soon after, and then was PG again within months, for a 3rd time. The children were all the same sex. When she found herself PG again, she could not do it. Even her parents told her to terminate. She only has 3 kids, and this is a married, financially secure mom with a stable career. They had been married for 6 years before they had their first.

[JermajestyDuggar]

27 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I have a friend who had her first weeks after I had my first. She had a second very soon after, and then was PG again within months, for a 3rd time. The children were all the same sex. When she found herself PG again, she could not do it. Even her parents told her to terminate. She only has 3 kids, and this is a married, financially secure mom with a stable career. They had been married for 6 years before they had their first.

Yeah there are just so many reasons a woman would terminate or use a permanent birth control. We chose permanent BC because my mental health just couldn’t handle a third pregnancy. And if that BC failed, I would get an abortion for those exact same reasons. 

[viii]

3 hours ago, Idlewild said:

One of the Spivey family has serious health issues- Hilary was complaining that the Christian cover that either Jessa or Jinger was shilling wouldn’t cover their bills for treatment.

She said something about having a child with cancer, so I'm assuming that's it. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yeah there are just so many reasons a woman would terminate or use a permanent birth control. We chose permanent BC because my mental health just couldn’t handle a third pregnancy. And if that BC failed, I would get an abortion for those exact same reasons. 

This is how I look at the entire abortion issue, people who claim that they are pro-life are only looking at protecting the potential (the fetus) life, while totally ignoring the life, and physical and mental health of the woman who must sacrifice her body to grow that potential life. IMO, unless you are the person putting her body at risk, you really need to defer to that woman’s decision regarding that pregnancy. Not your body, not your choice.

Politically speaking, abortion restrictions are a losing platform.

[Smee]

In every woman I personally know who has told me they've terminated a pregnancy, the common denominator was that they all already had at least one child. Including one woman who had an unplanned baby at 16 to a guy who didn't stick around, then later married and had 3 more (planned) kids, and when she found herself pregnant again when #4 was a few months old, she couldn't do it. The rhetoric that abortions are a selfish decision women will always regret and they'd change their mind once the baby was born, blah blah blah... it drives me nuts. 

[Cam]

25 minutes ago, Smee said:

The rhetoric that abortions are a selfish decision women will always regret and they'd change their mind once the baby was born, blah blah blah... it drives me nuts. 

Here’s the thing. In life, people have regrets. Does the government go around trying to prevent people from marrying? “Oh, no, you will regret marrying Joe! Don’t do it!” Does the government try to prevent people from attending the college of their choice? “Oh, you’ll regret going a university so far from home/in the snow belt/in the Bible belt!” Does the government try to prevent people from taking that job offer? “You’ll wish you’d never left your old job! Don’t do it!” and so on…..

It’s not the government’s job to try to prevent women from having regrets. 

Plus, you’re right, Smee. This is not to say that a woman has regrets for choosing abortion!

Here’s a link to an insightful article about a landmark study, “The Turner Study” on women who have abortions and those denied abortions. 
 

From the article:
For over 10 years, Dr. Foster and her team of researchers tracked the experiences of women who'd received abortions or who had been denied them because of clinic policies on gestational age limits. 

The research team regularly interviewed each of nearly 1,000 women for five years and found those who'd been denied abortion experienced worse economic and mental health outcomes than the cohort that received care.
 

And 95% of study participants who received an abortion said they made the right decision.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/05/15/1098347992/a-landmark-study-tracks-the-lasting-effect-of-having-an-abortion-or-being-denied

Edited March 7 by Cam

[Cam]

Link to another article about the study: https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/the-study-that-debunks-most-anti-abortion-arguments
 

A book about it has also been written. 

Edited March 7 by Cam

[Smee]

Oh wow, the sentence about how 2 of the women turned away from the abortions they wanted had died in complications from childbirth... that really got me. 😢 Fucking war on women indeed.

[Smash!]

Lets be real, all the arguments the pro-birthers use are only to cover up for the real motive: to subordinate women again to men, to control them and their sexuality. And to be able to punish every female who has the guts to leave the place she belongs to: The kitchen.

[JillyO]

If anybody’s into podcasts, I highly recommend the latest episode of the Ezra Klein Show, “How America’s Two Abortion Realities Are Clashing.” I found it very insightful. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

None of these yahoo legislators have the slightest clue about what “life of the mother” means. Does she have to be actively having a stroke? Hospitals are understandably not wanting to be prosecuted for providing now-semi-illegal abortions based on high blood pressure in early pregnancy, but that means women are going to die.

[SassyPants]

55 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

None of these yahoo legislators have the slightest clue about what “life of the mother” means. Does she have to be actively having a stroke? Hospitals are understandably not wanting to be prosecuted for providing now-semi-illegal abortions based on high blood pressure in early pregnancy, but that means women are going to die.

And that is why this issue has nothing to do with being pro-life or protecting lives-

[IReallyAmHopewell]

On 3/6/2024 at 11:27 PM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Many Duggar kids were born during the dot come boom whereas now the economy is very hostile towards people starting out.

Do the Duggars even know what the dot com boom was? LOL Honestly lol  The economy isn't very hostile when your Dad gives you a house and you have no debt. Just about any income can make that--esp in NW Arkansas. An electric bill, food,  gas for the car. They'll be fine, it's not that expensive. 

I think any that don't have kids will eventually--not every woman has the incredible fertility of Michelle or Kelly Bates. Plus even if they claim they'll have "all that God sends" they may secretly be making sure God sends only one or two....

[Meggo]

On 3/9/2024 at 1:20 PM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

None of these yahoo legislators have the slightest clue about what “life of the mother” means. Does she have to be actively having a stroke? Hospitals are understandably not wanting to be prosecuted for providing now-semi-illegal abortions based on high blood pressure in early pregnancy, but that means women are going to die.

They have no idea what basic biology is! These are the same people who ask if it's possible to send a scope down a woman's throat to check on the baby. Or who say things like "babies are being evicted at 50 weeks!" (damn skippy they are- that kid has overstayed its welcome when an average pregnancy is around 40 weeks - 50 is just a BIT too far). Or who say that ectopic pregnancies can still be viable if they're just "relocated". (serious point - I didn't know - honestly - that ectopic didn't JUST happen in the tubes - turns out - that egg can go rouge and implant in a variety of places!! GASP)
And for the guy who thinks you should harvest one egg at a time for IVF. That's not how it works! I can't pump my body full of hormones to create a bunch of follicles that MAY have eggs and just pick ONE. It's the law of averages. This is why we can't have career politicians making health care decisions. (And I'm still not saying being a doctor helps because Ben Carson wasn't the brightest bulb either)