Justin and Claire 4: Mini-horses Not Babies

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Meggo said:

They have no idea what basic biology is! These are the same people who ask if it's possible to send a scope down a woman's throat to check on the baby. Or who say things like "babies are being evicted at 50 weeks!" (damn skippy they are- that kid has overstayed its welcome when an average pregnancy is around 40 weeks - 50 is just a BIT too far). Or who say that ectopic pregnancies can still be viable if they're just "relocated". (serious point - I didn't know - honestly - that ectopic didn't JUST happen in the tubes - turns out - that egg can go rouge and implant in a variety of places!! GASP)
And for the guy who thinks you should harvest one egg at a time for IVF. That's not how it works! I can't pump my body full of hormones to create a bunch of follicles that MAY have eggs and just pick ONE. It's the law of averages. This is why we can't have career politicians making health care decisions. (And I'm still not saying being a doctor helps because Ben Carson wasn't the brightest bulb either)

Yes to all the above. This is my argument, too. Health care for women should be discussed with their doctors and others in the medical field, not politicians. I forget who said it, but the comment was made that the doctor’s office gets pretty crowded with the woman, her doctor and the government all in the same room. 

Too many women still believe men are smarter and know more about women’s bodies than women do. These women have no clue the amount of misinformation many men have about anything to do with women’s bodies. The completely cluelessness of men can be staggering, yet too many voters continue to allow politicians to make decisions that will affect their health care. 

[Meggo]

18 minutes ago, Cam said:

Yes to all the above. This is my argument, too. Health care for women should be discussed with their doctors and others in the medical field, not politicians. I forget who said it, but the comment was made that the doctor’s office gets pretty crowded with the woman, her doctor and the government all in the same room. 

Too many women still believe men are smarter and know more about women’s bodies than women do. These women have no clue the amount of misinformation many men have about anything to do with women’s bodies. The completely cluelessness of men can be staggering, yet too many voters continue to allow politicians to make decisions that will affect their health care. 

Yep. Health care is between the patient, the caregiver and whomever the patient decides to include in on the conversation. And I doubt ANY woman is going "hunh - wonder what Mike Johnson thinks I should do about this spotting between periods." 

[SassyPants]

Party of small government and taking care of one’s self, amirite???

The GOP sucks-

2 hours ago, Meggo said:

They have no idea what basic biology is! These are the same people who ask if it's possible to send a scope down a woman's throat to check on the baby. Or who say things like "babies are being evicted at 50 weeks!" (damn skippy they are- that kid has overstayed its welcome when an average pregnancy is around 40 weeks - 50 is just a BIT too far). Or who say that ectopic pregnancies can still be viable if they're just "relocated". (serious point - I didn't know - honestly - that ectopic didn't JUST happen in the tubes - turns out - that egg can go rouge and implant in a variety of places!! GASP)
And for the guy who thinks you should harvest one egg at a time for IVF. That's not how it works! I can't pump my body full of hormones to create a bunch of follicles that MAY have eggs and just pick ONE. It's the law of averages. This is why we can't have career politicians making health care decisions. (And I'm still not saying being a doctor helps because Ben Carson wasn't the brightest bulb either)

And again, you can tell this is not about supporting lives because these same folks, and the party they belong to, want to further restrict, limit and defund education. They do not want fertile folks to have all the tools and knowledge to make educated reproductive decisions, thus limiting the need for abortions. Nope, this is about controlling women and forcing them to birth more soldiers for their odd kingdom (which has nothing to do with the tenets taught by Jesus).

[Meggo]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Party of small government and taking care of one’s self, amirite???

The GOP sucks-

And again, you can tell this is not about supporting lives because these same folks, and the party they belong to, want to further restrict, limit and defund education. They do not want fertile folks to have all the tools and knowledge to make educated reproductive decisions, thus limiting the need for abortions. Nope, this is about controlling women and forcing them to birth more soldiers for their odd kingdom (which has nothing to do with the tenets taught by Jesus).

it's not about supporting lives if they defund school breakfast & lunch programs in school - have kids with DEBT relating to their lunches, and just send "thoughts and prayers" for school shooting victims, and don't support low cost access to all manner of birth control. This is allll about control.. 

[Lurker]

26 minutes ago, Meggo said:

it's not about supporting lives if they defund school breakfast & lunch programs in school - have kids with DEBT relating to their lunches, and just send "thoughts and prayers" for school shooting victims, and don't support low cost access to all manner of birth control. This is allll about control.. 

 

I always think it is about punishment as well as control.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

6 hours ago, Meggo said:

serious point - I didn't know - honestly - that ectopic didn't JUST happen in the tubes - turns out - that egg can go rouge and implant in a variety of places!! GASP

Yeah. A friend of mine had one that they couldn’t find. They performed the abortion by giving her chemotherapy.

[Kiki03910]

6 hours ago, Meggo said:

Yep. Health care is between the patient, the caregiver and whomever the patient decides to include in on the conversation. And I doubt ANY woman is going "hunh - wonder what Mike Johnson thinks I should do about this spotting between periods." 

Wha??? You don't have a WWMJD bracelet? What a fucking creep he is, and sadly not unique.

[Meggo]

15 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Yeah. A friend of mine had one that they couldn’t find. They performed the abortion by giving her chemotherapy.

I had ZERO idea this was even possible. I learned about it a few weeks ago when someone was talking about how the GOP just thinks it's a simple "egg that got lost" thing and I was horrified. I didn't KNOW that was even possible. (the ectopic - not the "horrified by the GOP" - that's standard anymore...) 

13 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

Wha??? You don't have a WWMJD bracelet? What a fucking creep he is, and sadly not unique.

So everyone was ALL up in arms because of Hillary's emails - but he has an app on his phone that allows he and his teenage son to keep each other accountable so they don't accidentally watch p0rn. Like - first - how does that accidentally happen. Second, ewww. Third - how is that secure???

[Cam]

Ugh. M. Johnson. I can’t even type out his full name because he disgusts me so. He is only trying to make a name for himself and no doubt wants to run for prez some day. He is a dickhead. He probably has pin up posters of Mitch McConnell and the Donald in his bedroom office bedroom.

Yes, control of women is what GOP strives for. By controlling their reproductive rights, women will have a more difficult time trying to move ahead in the world. I also agree about it being a thing to punish women. If they have sex, shame on them if it results in an unwanted pregnancy. They must pay the price for having sexual desires. Only men are allowed to have those.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, Meggo said:

I had ZERO idea this was even possible. I learned about it a few weeks ago when someone was talking about how the GOP just thinks it's a simple "egg that got lost" thing and I was horrified. I didn't KNOW that was even possible. (the ectopic - not the "horrified by the GOP" - that's standard anymore...) 

So everyone was ALL up in arms because of Hillary's emails - but he has an app on his phone that allows he and his teenage son to keep each other accountable so they don't accidentally watch p0rn. Like - first - how does that accidentally happen. Second, ewww. Third - how is that secure???

Next thing you know they’ll be debating if the eggs are scrambled or sunny side up. 

[patsymae]

On 3/11/2024 at 11:16 AM, Cam said:

Yes to all the above. This is my argument, too. Health care for women should be discussed with their doctors and others in the medical field, not politicians. I forget who said it, but the comment was made that the doctor’s office gets pretty crowded with the woman, her doctor and the government all in the same room. 

Too many women still believe men are smarter and know more about women’s bodies than women do. These women have no clue the amount of misinformation many men have about anything to do with women’s bodies. The completely cluelessness of men can be staggering, yet too many voters continue to allow politicians to make decisions that will affect their health care. 

You mean a woman's body doesn't "shut down" so she can't get pregnant from a rape? You can't really transplant a "child" from an ectopic pregnancy into the womb? A woman can't swallow a camera and have a doctor follow her pregnancy? The umbilical cord and placenta are not directly connected to the woman? Women can't control the intake of semen during sex? There has never been a single case where an abortion saved the life of a woman? 

My world is rocked. Next think  you know you'll be telling me that riding a bicycle doesn't break a girl's hymen.

On 3/7/2024 at 4:52 PM, Cam said:

Here’s the thing. In life, people have regrets. Does the government go around trying to prevent people from marrying? “Oh, no, you will regret marrying Joe! Don’t do it!” Does the government try to prevent people from attending the college of their choice? “Oh, you’ll regret going a university so far from home/in the snow belt/in the Bible belt!” Does the government try to prevent people from taking that job offer? “You’ll wish you’d never left your old job! Don’t do it!” and so on…..

It’s not the government’s job to try to prevent women from having regrets. 

Plus, you’re right, Smee. This is not to say that a woman has regrets for choosing abortion!

Here’s a link to an insightful article about a landmark study, “The Turner Study” on women who have abortions and those denied abortions. 
 

From the article:
For over 10 years, Dr. Foster and her team of researchers tracked the experiences of women who'd received abortions or who had been denied them because of clinic policies on gestational age limits. 

The research team regularly interviewed each of nearly 1,000 women for five years and found those who'd been denied abortion experienced worse economic and mental health outcomes than the cohort that received care.
 

And 95% of study participants who received an abortion said they made the right decision.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/05/15/1098347992/a-landmark-study-tracks-the-lasting-effect-of-having-an-abortion-or-being-denied

They forgot to add in the number of women who regretted having children. Or better yet, the ones who regretted giving in to pressure to surrender for adoption.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, patsymae said:

You mean a woman's body doesn't "shut down" so she can't get pregnant from a rape? You can't really transplant a "child" from an ectopic pregnancy into the womb? A woman can't swallow a camera and have a doctor follow her pregnancy? The umbilical cord and placenta are not directly connected to the woman? Women can't control the intake of semen during sex? There has never been a single case where an abortion saved the life of a woman? 

My world is rocked. Next think  you know you'll be telling me that riding a bicycle doesn't break a girl's hymen.

They forgot to add in the number of women who regretted having children. Or better yet, the ones who regretted giving in to pressure to surrender for adoption.

There are tons of women who regretted putting their child up for adoption. I read a book that was just story after story of women putting children up for adoption between the late 40s Insta the 80s. It was mostly young middle class white women pressured into giving their baby up for adoption because everyone around them convinced them they can’t do it alone and their parents were ashamed of them. 

[patsymae]

Just now, JermajestyDuggar said:

There are tons of women who regretted putting their child up for adoption. I read a book that was just story after story of women putting children up for adoption between the late 40s Insta the 80s. It was mostly young middle class white women pressured into giving their baby up for adoption because everyone around them convinced them they can’t do it alone and their parents were ashamed of them. 

It's not just then. Check out Saving Our Sisters-Adoption (have website and FB page). They help preserve families. Of 1,500 women/families who came to them, once they knew their rights and had support, only 7 went ahead with surrender, and two of those tried to revoke. Wonder how the other 5 will feel in 5, 10, 20 years. The right to lifers who tout adoption as the win/win "humane" alternative to abortion don't realize abortion is not wanting that pregnancy at that time, not that they don't want THEIR specific living child. IT just galls me that they go on and on about saving women, women's health, women regretting abortions--like it's all about how much they care about the woman--and totally deny the real life consequences to real women (and in the case of adoption, children born with terminal illnesses or other horrific conditions, severe poverty, etc., children and families) of their "alternatives." Off my soapbox for now.

[Cam]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

There are tons of women who regretted putting their child up for adoption. I read a book that was just story after story of women putting children up for adoption between the late 40s Insta the 80s. It was mostly young middle class white women pressured into giving their baby up for adoption because everyone around them convinced them they can’t do it alone and their parents were ashamed of them. 

I’ve read several books on the subject, a few were first hand accounts of either the pregnant mother or the adopted child. It’s an horrific part of history and it angers me how cruel the practice of forcing mostly young, white women to give their babies up for adoption was. Between roughly 1940 - 1970, it’s estimated 4 million women in the U.S. surrendered their babies for adoption. It’s referred to as “the baby scoop era”. 

These women were considered to have something mentally wrong with them, personality disorders. It was thought they intentionally got pregnant for various psychological reason.

I personally feel like too many people of that era got some sick satisfaction through punishing young women for having sex. These people absolutely loved having power over females and they loved being cruel to them. It drove them insane that women would “give in” to sexual desire. Of course, who knows how many of these women were coerced, or worse, to have sex. A huge majority of them never received any kind of sexual education. But people wanted young females to be chaste and pure and only think about cooking or flowers or something! Not about sexual intercourse! There were so so so many hang ups about sex. There still is, but lessened to some degree. 

Some of the pregnant women were told they would forget about what happened. As if!!!! So much shame and guilt placed on these women! It breaks my heart. 

[MariaariaM]

My patients tend to talk me, once they relax. And they get things off their chest, sometimes from a very long time ago. There are plenty of women who regret having had kids. Generally not because they don't love the kids they have but because becoming parents changed the course of their lives so much . 

[HeartsAFundie]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:33 AM, Cam said:

I’ve read several books on the subject, a few were first hand accounts of either the pregnant mother or the adopted child. It’s an horrific part of history and it angers me how cruel the practice of forcing mostly young, white women to give their babies up for adoption was. Between roughly 1940 - 1970, it’s estimated 4 million women in the U.S. surrendered their babies for adoption. It’s referred to as “the baby scoop era”. 

These women were considered to have something mentally wrong with them, personality disorders. It was thought they intentionally got pregnant for various psychological reason.

I personally feel like too many people of that era got some sick satisfaction through punishing young women for having sex. These people absolutely loved having power over females and they loved being cruel to them. It drove them insane that women would “give in” to sexual desire. Of course, who knows how many of these women were coerced, or worse, to have sex. A huge majority of them never received any kind of sexual education. But people wanted young females to be chaste and pure and only think about cooking or flowers or something! Not about sexual intercourse! There were so so so many hang ups about sex. There still is, but lessened to some degree. 

Some of the pregnant women were told they would forget about what happened. As if!!!! So much shame and guilt placed on these women! It breaks my heart. 

I used to watch "Long Lost Family" on TLC as well as "The Locator", which I believe was on Lifetime or WeTV.  A vast majority of the people seeking or being sought are birth moms who unwillingly gave up their infants for adoption in the time period exactly as described.  When initially found and interviewed, these women are wracked with so much shame and regret for not speaking out and fighting harder to keep their child, but always acknowledge they really didn't have a say in the matter, especially if underage, as their parents were usually the ones who made all the adoption arrangements ahead of time.  They talked about the shame the pregnancy brought on their family, especially if the family was somewhat well-off for the time, and the whole "What will the neighbors think?" attitude.  They talked about being sent to homes for unwed mothers or sent to an out-of-area relative for the pregnancy.  They were terrified.   And sadly, many of them never went on to have other children after that experience.  Some were by choice; others were due to medical issues down the road.  And when they reunite with the child the first thing these women say almost every time is "I'm so sorry".  

Of course, there are some exceptions as there have been a few birth moms who do not wish to reunite and choose to not be found but I am sure their pain is no less.    It's probably the only way they can deal with it.    

Edited March 23 by HeartsAFundie

[JermajestyDuggar]

43 minutes ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I used to watch "Long Lost Family" on TLC as well as "The Locator", which I believe was on Lifetime or WeTV.  A vast majority of the people seeking or being sought are birth moms who unwillingly gave up their infants for adoption in the time period exactly as described.  When initially found and interviewed, these women are wracked with so much shame and regret for not speaking out and fighting harder to keep their child, but always acknowledge they really didn't have a say in the matter, especially if underage, as their parents were usually the ones who made all the adoption arrangements ahead of time.  They talked about the shame the pregnancy brought on their family, especially if the family was somewhat well-off for the time, and the whole "What will the neighbors think?" attitude.  They talked about being sent to homes for unwed mothers or sent to an out-of-area relative for the pregnancy.  They were terrified.   And sadly, many of them never went on to have other children after that experience.  Some were by choice; others were due to medical issues down the road.  And when they reunite with the child the first thing these women say almost every time is "I'm so sorry".  

Of course, there are some exceptions as there have been a few birth moms who do not wish to reunite and choose to not be found but I am sure their pain is no less.    It's probably the only way they can deal with it.    

Yes. It makes me very glad that infant adoption is much less common today. Because it was not a good solution. These young women needed support. Financial and emotional. They didn’t need the baby to be taken away and shamed. Thankfully today we are shaming young women less for having unplanned pregnancies. And thankfully we have better birth control options and sex education. If a woman chooses to carry to term, the very last option should be adoption. Support this woman as much as possible and if she feels she’s still unable to parent, then consider adoption. 

[Expectopatronus]

I think the key word always needs to be choice. No one should be forced to make an adoption plan for their baby nor should anyone be forced to parent a baby they don’t want. When working with adults, I had two clients who did not want to parent, had been talked out of adoption by well meaning social workers who told them they would regret their decision and then ended up having their children apprehended. They were clear that they did not want the children back and did not want visites but both of them had social workers who refused to allow them to make adoption plans because “they might regret it later”. 

[Meggo]

On 3/23/2024 at 11:17 PM, Expectopatronus said:

I think the key word always needs to be choice. No one should be forced to make an adoption plan for their baby nor should anyone be forced to parent a baby they don’t want. When working with adults, I had two clients who did not want to parent, had been talked out of adoption by well meaning social workers who told them they would regret their decision and then ended up having their children apprehended. They were clear that they did not want the children back and did not want visites but both of them had social workers who refused to allow them to make adoption plans because “they might regret it later”. 

100% - it is all about choice. I'm a mom only because someone chose adoption - and am forever grateful. But I will defend her right to any decision she makes with regard to her own reproductive health.