Pearls 2: Michael, Shoshanna, et al

[Pancakes@Tiffany's]

On 4/3/2024 at 6:55 PM, Howl said:

A little wake-up for Candice Owens leg humper Shoshanna: 

 

Thank you for sharing this. It was an incredible read.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Shoshanna had her kids watch the eclipse with sunglasses on. One was wearing two pairs. As if that solves the problem. Fundies are the dumbest homeschoolers in existence. 

[TrueRebel1]

Shoshanna hasn't said a word about her sister's husband being very ill, but posts a video of washing her hair in the creek because she's "stressed". I understand if she doesn't want to share specifics, but it feels a little self-absorbed to not mention anything, any empathatic words or acknowledgement about her sister and BIL. 

On 4/2/2024 at 5:41 AM, Howl said:

 

The photos of the son and fiance at the beach -- Is she also trying to launch an online influencer career grift for her son? He's gonna need some way to support his family. 

I've wondered about her son's income situation. It seems he graduated high school last year, but he doesn't appear to have a steady job -- at least, not by what we see of him being at Shoshanna's all hours of the day and taking off on trips with her. 

[MariaariaM]

6 hours ago, TrueRebel1 said:

Shoshanna hasn't said a word about her sister's husband being very ill, but posts a video of washing her hair in the creek because she's "stressed".

Does posting things reduce stress? Washing her hair? Washing it in the creek instead of in the shower? I'm confused. 

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, MariaariaM said:

Does posting things reduce stress? Washing her hair? Washing it in the creek instead of in the shower? I'm confused. 

I'm going with the "washing it in the creek" part. By the time you've walked to the creek, yelled at whoever is taking the photo until they have it right, dried off your hair and walked back within wifi distance to upload you've probably relieved quite a bit of stress.

[hoipolloi]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

By the time you've walked to the creek, yelled at whoever is taking the photo until they have it right, dried off your hair and walked back within wifi distance to upload you've probably relieved quite a bit of stress.

This sequence of events had not occurred to me but, of course, you're right - it's not like pixies are taking all of these me, me, me photos & videos.

17 hours ago, TrueRebel1 said:

it feels a little self-absorbed to not mention anything, any empathatic words or acknowledgement about her sister and BIL. 

It is odd. Wonder if it's because her ex, James, seems to be close to Shalom & family.

[Themanda Duggar]

On 4/9/2024 at 5:18 PM, TrueRebel1 said:

 it feels a little self-absorbed to not mention anything, any empathatic words or acknowledgement about her sister and BIL. 

Shoshanna is nothing but self-absorbed, so no surprise there.  It takes a pretty astonishing level of self-absorbed conceit to have someone film you washing your hair anywhere, and to post it publicly because you expect that people want to watch you do it. It takes even more conceit to go on a road trip solely for the purpose of getting beautiful photos of yourself, with others who are there just to take those photos and to make sure you look good in them.

why would she even think to comment on her BIL’s illness when doing so does nothing to glorify herself? She’s waiting to comment on it until she can visit him with her photographer, so she can post images with a carefully cultivated expression of compassion on her face as she pretends to provide some kind of care to him. I bet she already has her outfit picked out for this photo shoot and is practicing her most photogenic tragedy face in case his treatments fail.

[JermajestyDuggar]

57 minutes ago, Themanda Duggar said:

Shoshanna is nothing but self-absorbed, so no surprise there.  It takes a pretty astonishing level of self-absorbed conceit to have someone film you washing your hair anywhere, and to post it publicly because you expect that people want to watch you do it. It takes even more conceit to go on a road trip solely for the purpose of getting beautiful photos of yourself, with others who are there just to take those photos and to make sure you look good in them.

why would she even think to comment on her BIL’s illness when doing so does nothing to glorify herself? She’s waiting to comment on it until she can visit him with her photographer, so she can post images with a carefully cultivated expression of compassion on her face as she pretends to provide some kind of care to him. I bet she already has her outfit picked out for this photo shoot and is practicing her most photogenic tragedy face in case his treatments fail.

Isn’t it strange how fundie parenting can produce daughters on total opposite ends of the spectrum? You have narcissistic self absorbed women like Shoshanna, Jill, and Braggie on one end. And then you have meek, submissive, walking doormats on the other. It’s sad as hell. 

[Themanda Duggar]

13 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Isn’t it strange how fundie parenting can produce daughters on total opposite ends of the spectrum? You have narcissistic self absorbed women like Shoshanna, Jill, and Braggie on one end. And then you have meek, submissive, walking doormats on the other. It’s sad as hell. 

It is sad as hell.  I think in many cases the parents cast their kids in these roles, and expect/raise them to stay in them, or only see themselves within the context of that role.
Do you remember any of the Duggar segments where Michelle describes each kid with statements like “this is ___, and she’s our little helper.  She loves to help around the house.  This is ___, and he’s our leader.  He loves to lead and take charge of his siblings”?  That’s what I mean about casting kids in specific roles.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Themanda Duggar said:

It is sad as hell.  I think in many cases the parents cast their kids in these roles, and expect/raise them to stay in them, or only see themselves within the context of that role.
Do you remember any of the Duggar segments where Michelle describes each kid with statements like “this is ___, and she’s our little helper.  She loves to help around the house.  This is ___, and he’s our leader.  He loves to lead and take charge of his siblings”?  That’s what I mean about casting kids in specific roles.  

I agree. They assign very specific traits as young children. And their birth order probably makes a huge difference. Jana’s personality probably didn’t fit an oldest daughter role. So it was beaten out of her at a young g age so she could step into that role as caretaker of all the younger siblings. Shoshanna is the youngest girl so I bet she got away with a lot more than her sisters. She probably thinks she’s very special because she’s a Pearl, which is basically fundie royalty, and she has been successful in her businesses because her parents’ humpers buy her shit. Her bulk herb store wouldn’t have been successful if she wasn’t born a Pearl. She wouldn’t have a huge downline in plexus and become a top earner if she wasn’t a Pearl. She’s a fundie princess. 

[hoipolloi]

Update from Shalom. Her husband has an aggressive form of lymphoma, currently within his chest, but it is fast-growing. They declined the offered medical treatments in favor of going to the Tijuana, Mexico "clinic" of Hope4Cancer:

Quote

 

The treatment offered to us yesterday was 6 months of Chemo 1 week on, two weeks off with the chance of other cancers within 3-5 years.

We are NOT taking that option and doing Chemo.

We feel God leading us to Tijuana, Mexico to HOPE4CANCER in offers a full body approach to healing. They use therapy that heals and cleans and detox’s the body. Using light, sound frequency and so much more amazing things! They are also strong on spiritual support. He will be there for three weeks in house for treatments followed by a year of support and treatment from home.

 

Going to say that it wouldn't surprise me if the conventional medical treatments they were offered would be a huge if not impossible expense for them. Additionally, a diagnosis like this probably has no guaranteed outcome. OTOH, this is what the H4C place says their treatment costs:

The H4C has a page of bafflegab on survival statistics but no actual data on their own clinical results.

It's just so sad.

[JermajestyDuggar]

45 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Update from Shalom. Her husband has an aggressive form of lymphoma, currently within his chest, but it is fast-growing. They declined the offered medical treatments in favor of going to the Tijuana, Mexico "clinic" of Hope4Cancer:

Going to say that it wouldn't surprise me if the conventional medical treatments they were offered would be a huge if not impossible expense for them. Additionally, a diagnosis like this probably has no guaranteed outcome. OTOH, this is what the H4C place says their treatment costs:

The H4C has a page of bafflegab on survival statistics but no actual data on their own clinical results.

It's just so sad.

I think Rusty Thomas took his teen son to a similar place or the same place in Tiajuana instead of conventional treatment. And the boy ended up dying. It was very sad. And unfortunately that probably what will end up in this instance too. 

[hoipolloi]

I have known adults who were diagnosed with, say, pancreatic cancer. They carefully considered the recommended treatment (usually chemo) and then turned it down because even with treatment their prognosis was still very poor. They chose instead to have palliative or hospice care in order to make the best of the time left to them. So, I could see doing that if the none of the choices is good. 

But spending $35-55 K on what amounts to a spa? I just don't understand this. 

ETA: Meanwhile, people are in the comments at her post, recommending ivermectin.

Edited April 15 by hoipolloi

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Update from Shalom. Her husband has an aggressive form of lymphoma, currently within his chest, but it is fast-growing. They declined the offered medical treatments in favor of going to the Tijuana, Mexico "clinic" of Hope4Cancer:

Going to say that it wouldn't surprise me if the conventional medical treatments they were offered would be a huge if not impossible expense for them. Additionally, a diagnosis like this probably has no guaranteed outcome. OTOH, this is what the H4C place says their treatment costs:

The H4C has a page of bafflegab on survival statistics but no actual data on their own clinical results.

It's just so sad.

This is the "thoughts and prayers" version of cancer treatment, with the bonus of cleaning out your wallet as well. Honestly they would be better off staying home, doing no treatments, and preparing for his death than doing this. Bafflegab is an understatement for that statistics page.

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

They carefully considered the recommended treatment (usually chemo) and then turned it down because even with treatment their prognosis was still very poor. They chose instead to have palliative or hospice care in order to make the best of the time left to them. So, I could see doing that if the none of the choices is good. 

But spending $35-55 K on what amounts to a spa? I just don't understand this. 

Exactly. But at least the spa has pretty lights, that will help.

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

I have known adults who were diagnosed with, say, pancreatic cancer. They carefully considered the recommended treatment (usually chemo) and then turned it down because even with treatment their prognosis was still very poor. They chose instead to have palliative or hospice care in order to make the best of the time left to them. So, I could see doing that if the none of the choices is good. 

But spending $35-55 K on what amounts to a spa? I just don't understand this. 

ETA: Meanwhile, people are in the comments at her post, recommending ivermectin.

Why do people think Ivermectin is some sort of miracle drug? It’s not even some weird natural herb these types want. It’s a prescription drug with side effects. 

[Giraffe]

Holy shit. So basically they're paying $35,000 for him to die in a different location. I hope they're at least taking their children* with them so they can spend his final days with him!

*idk if they have kids or not

[hoipolloi]

26 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

idk if they have kids or not

Looks like they have 5 at home. The oldest daughter married a couple of years ago.

Re: money. Justin runs a motorcycle repair shop. Shalom has been shilling Plexus but I doubt that she has anywhere near the downline that Shoshanna has. 

[Alisamer]

14 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

This is the "thoughts and prayers" version of cancer treatment, with the bonus of cleaning out your wallet as well. Honestly they would be better off staying home, doing no treatments, and preparing for his death than doing this. Bafflegab is an understatement for that statistics page.

I've got a singing bowl, some wind chimes, scented candles, a few pretty crystals, some essential oils and leftover Christmas lights. If they want to pay that kind of money they can come here. I'll set them up a tent in the woods behind my house so they can ground themselves and benefit from the fresh air, give them a couple "treatments" a day, and have doordash deliver them some "organic" food from somewhere. When they aren't doing cleanses or fasts, of course. 

It's sad to see anyone have cancer, cancer sucks. And I get the attraction of feeling like you are DOING something that some of these treatments might give. But really, if that stuff worked, doctors would be using it! It's way cheaper to shine some colorful lights on a person and waft some smells their way than to actually treat them. 

And I'm even down with some of the woo, myself. I think the woo stuff can be excellent in combination with actual medical treatment, assuming the woo isn't harmful. I think just having a focus, some relaxation, and even the placebo effect can be beneficial. But refusing medical treatment to go spend huge amounts of money at basically a spa in Tijuana? Really?

(I also can see choosing palliative care, and doing things that make you feel better and happier even if they aren't medical treatments, if that's the situation you're in. Quality of life matters. But people dying of something they could have beaten, because they went with woo instead of actual science? Madness.)

And also this is yet another strange crossover spot where fundies are side by side with those heathens they think are hell bound. A lot of that treatment sounds like it references Chinese medicine, and is the sort of thing you might well get done at the same place you might get your palms read or pick up a spell bag for protection. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

In my opinion, the very worst woo scams are the ones that prey on dying people. 

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, Alisamer said:

And I'm even down with some of the woo, myself. I think the woo stuff can be excellent in combination with actual medical treatment, assuming the woo isn't harmful

Same, as long as everyone is aware if you're taking additional herbs etc (there can be interactions with other medications, it's always better to have a list to check) then if it helps you go for it! My big issue is when people decline actual treatment because they're convinced that [insert whatever] will be better, and it loses them time when they could have benefited.

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

In my opinion, the very worst woo scams are the ones that prey on dying people. 

I honestly wonder if they actually believe their own guff or are really that cynical. To quote Tim Minchin's "Groundhog Day" - "I don't know if I believe what I'm saying - but this guy's desperate, and he's paying..."

Edited April 15 by Ozlsn

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Same, as long as everyone is aware if you're taking additional herbs etc (there can be interactions with other medications, it's always better to have a list to check) then if it helps you go for it! My big issue is when people decline actual treatment because they're convinced that [insert whatever] will be better, and it loses them time when they could have benefited.

I honestly wonder if they actually believe their own guff or are really that cynical. To quote Tim Minchin's "Groundhog Day" - "I don't know if I believe what I'm saying - but this guy's desperate, and he's paying..."

You have to lie to yourself to keep doing this every day. You have to convince yourself you are helping in some way. People lie to themselves all the time in order to do immoral things. 

[Ozlsn]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You have to lie to yourself to keep doing this every day. You have to convince yourself you are helping in some way. People lie to themselves all the time in order to do immoral things. 

Some I think are true believers that have found the One Weird Trick, and believe passionately that They are withholding knowledge from you for nefarious purposes. Ian Gawler is a true believer, and new evidence even about his own case have done literally nothing to change his belief system. The ones running full blown clinics in less regulated areas are the ones I suspect of being most cynical - but after all, they don't see the dying, who go home to die there. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Some I think are true believers that have found the One Weird Trick, and believe passionately that They are withholding knowledge from you for nefarious purposes. Ian Gawler is a true believer, and new evidence even about his own case have done literally nothing to change his belief system. The ones running full blown clinics in less regulated areas are the ones I suspect of being most cynical - but after all, they don't see the dying, who go home to die there. 

I think people who work at the clinic may just be working a job like any other. Like the nurses who probably don’t get paid that well. They are just doing their job. They probably aren’t thinking that hard about it and I don’t blame them. But the people who run it probably tell themselves a lot of things. Like, “I’m giving them hope. They are so happy. Look how much better they are feeling (placebo effect).”

[Howl]

On 4/14/2024 at 4:14 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Rusty Thomas took his teen son to a similar place or the same place in Tiajuana instead of conventional treatment. And the boy ended up dying. It was very sad. And unfortunately that probably what will end up in this instance too. 

Yes, but when that didn't work, off they went to MD Anderson Cancer Center, an leading cancer treatment and research hospital in Houston. The son did pass away there.  MD Anderson accepts all cancer patients, even if they can't pay. 

I'm so sorry this family is choosing has been led by God to this Tijuana medical scam.  They could take that money and get their loved one to a place like MD Anderson and get cutting edge treatment, but that may not at all change the final outcome.  

Several decades ago, when a  relative was diagnosed with terminal melanoma that had already metastasized to the brain, there was this initial mindset that SOMETHING COULD MAKE THIS GO AWAY!  Isn't there something we can do? How can this be happening?  So I do understand their mindset, feeling that there must be something, anything that will offer hope.  Of course, that relative had surgery to remove the brain metastases,  palliative care and finally hospice and we all came to accept it. 

 

Edited April 15 by Howl

[Alisamer]

17 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Some I think are true believers that have found the One Weird Trick, and believe passionately that They are withholding knowledge from you for nefarious purposes.

This is the part I don't get. Who do they think this mysterious "they" are? Deep state? The government? Lizard people? Illuminati? Pharmaceutical companies? Some combo of those?

But the biggest thing to me is why do they think "they" would withhold information on potentially lifesaving treatments? I've heard people say it's because of profits, but if there was a genuinely effective treatment "they" would snap that up, market it, and profit off of it in a heartbeat if money was the issue. 

The government would benefit from a treatment that keeps people healthy and in the workforce paying taxes. Pharmaceutical companies would benefit from packaging, marketing, and selling the treatment. Doctors and hospitals would be happy to get people cured and out of their already overloaded system. 

Dead people don't buy things or pay taxes. There's no benefit for "them" to let people die. 

And if it was some big deep state government secret or something, it wouldn't be something you could find on Facebook or Youtube. 

None of this conspiracy theory mess stands up to any real scrutiny.