Fundie family YouTuber has “wild pregnancy” and “freebirth”

[JermajestyDuggar]

I only noticed this woman because she is an online friend of Karissa Collins and they met up recently. Hold onto you hats because this is a doozie. A fundie woman named Kaylee Wilson (and her husband) adopted two girls from Africa (one is deaf) and just gave birth to her second bio child. Her first was a c-section. This time around, she decided to do a wild pregnancy. Which just means no prenatal care. And then an unassisted home birth in her RV. Yes, they live in an RV. Because it’s the fundie way these days. She claims she was in labor for 6 days and pushed for 2 days. She was 43 weeks pregnant. When she thought she was getting close to giving birth, she went outside and had him in a muddy field. Because that’s somehow better than the RV? The cord was wrapped around his neck twice and she had to suck the meconium out of his mouth with her mouth. Of course she thinks this was the most amazing birth ever and has zero regrets. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/kreativekay_wilson/

[Giraffe]

Wow! She’s lucky that baby survived her stupidity!

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Wow! She’s lucky that baby survived her stupidity!

It will only make her more likely to do it again next time around.

[Melissa1977]

Baby survived but do we know if it's a healthy baby? 43 weeks and 2 days pushing, wrapped cord, meconium... If it's true, the baby could be special needs. I hope everything is ok.

No pediatrician is checking the baby, I guess.

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Baby survived but do we know if it's a healthy baby? 43 weeks and 2 days pushing, wrapped cord, meconium... If it's true, the baby could be special needs. I hope everything is ok.

No pediatrician is checking the baby, I guess.

I’m sure a doctor hasn’t checked the baby so who knows if there are any resulting issues. If something pops up later on, I’m sure she won’t connect the dots. 

[KWLand]

It’s always interesting to me that they know how far along they are and that they use those evil pregnancy tests to see if they are pregnant.  I always figured if you were anti science and save pregnancy/labor care, you should just wait until baby pops out to find out you were pregnant.

There is a reason the standard of care now is a dating ultrasound because cycles rarely are the 28 days that due dates are calculated with.  I only had one dating u/s, but knew with two of my pregnancies that the 28 due date calculation wasn’t correct.  So my due date was adjust by a week.  
 

also true labor means your cervix is dilating at a certain rate, so 6 days of labor wouldn’t be accurate.  It could be pre labor, but not active labor.  Pushing for 2 days is also unlikely and would more than likely result in swollen cervix.

just another example of someone who knows too little about pregnancy and labor to be free birthing. 

[GreenBeans]

This is clearly what I personally like to call “first world privilege stupidity”.

There was a time when women and children were dying in child birth, and people were thankful when hospital births became widely available. There are places in the world even today where people would give everything for prenatal medical care and the chance to deliver in a hospital, because women and children are still dying in child birth.

These crazy “natural”, “free birthing” people embrace this craziness because they, due to their privilege of being born in a first world country, haven’t seen and experienced first hand what it is like when children and mothers die in child birth due to lack of availability of medical care.

Same with antivaxxers. If you haven’t seen and experienced first hand what Polio does, it doesn’t seem quite so scary.

[Howl]

20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m sure a doctor hasn’t checked the baby so who knows if there are any resulting issues. If something pops up later on, I’m sure she won’t connect the dots. 

Also if anything shows up, it's "God's will" and not something she could have prevented. 

[neuroticcat]

I skimmed her profile and it is super triggering. I know I'm middle-aged, but I don't understand influencer culture at all. There is no privacy for any of them. The moment of her birthing her child is plastered everywhere, even for people to snark about. She has a series where she tells what the story of her daughter's adoption is like (for the parents *and* for the daughter). I mean, it's selling these very private moments, not to mention speaking for a young adoptee who may have a whole lot of other things to say about her story as an adult. I just don't get it. For what? To make income? To live some off the grid pipe dream? To minister? The ministry aspect is the most sneakily narcissistic of them all, because it indicates you are such a shining example and your words and insights are so crucial that everyone must hear them.. 

 

And it's such a fickle thing, because the people who admire and platform you will turn on you in a snap. I always imagine these kind of parents waking up in twenty years with huge regrets, but I think that's just me being ever hopeful. Usually such parents just are estranged from their kids because they can't bear to deal with what comes due after all of this. It's so horrible.

Also noting that she has in her bio "follower of YHWH" which usually means the brand of fundamentalism that appropriates Jewish culture in very strange and offensive ways. 

I am a religious person, but these sort of things throw me for a loop and leave me asking: is religion itself neurotic?

[Black Aliss]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:10 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I only noticed this woman because she is an online friend of Karissa Collins and they met up recently. Hold onto you hats because this is a doozie. A fundie woman named Kaylee Wilson (and her husband) adopted two girls from Africa (one is deaf) and just gave birth to her second bio child. Her first was a c-section. This time around, she decided to do a wild pregnancy. Which just means no prenatal care. And then an unassisted home birth in her RV. Yes, they live in an RV. Because it’s the fundie way these days. She claims she was in labor for 6 days and pushed for 2 days. She was 43 weeks pregnant. When she thought she was getting close to giving birth, she went outside and had him in a muddy field. Because that’s somehow better than the RV? The cord was wrapped around his neck twice and she had to suck the meconium out of his mouth with her mouth. Of course she thinks this was the most amazing birth ever and has zero regrets. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/kreativekay_wilson/

Help me understand how fundies feel this is perfectly okay, even if the baby suffers or dies, but abortion is not?

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

Help me understand how fundies feel this is perfectly okay, even if the baby suffers or dies, but abortion is not?

With this woman in particular, I believe she had a traumatic experience with her first birth. It was in a hospital and she ended up having a c-section. Not just fundies, but some people will blame the hospital/medical industry for their traumatic birth experience. Which is possible. I’ve heard of plenty of experiences where the doctors caused trauma to their patients. So instead of going through the process of finding a different doctor or midwife they trust and and they feel will not cause any further birth trauma, they just Chuck everything hospital/medical related put the window. They go totally opposite. I’m guessing this is what happened with this woman. 
 

I think fundies eschew hospital births for multiple reasons. 

[HermioneSparrow]

I'm sorry but she's a loon. Now she's "potty training" her son since birth. Apparently, she did it with her biological daughter as well.  https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuAPnwLAQ86/?igshid=MTI1ZDU5ODQ3Yw==

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Whoa. I'm having an incredibly visceral reaction to this woman. Gonna "nope" right back out of this, just like I did with Nicole Naugler. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, HermioneSparrow said:

I'm sorry but she's a loon. Now she's "potty training" her son since birth. Apparently, she did it with her biological daughter as well.  https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuAPnwLAQ86/?igshid=MTI1ZDU5ODQ3Yw==

This doesn’t surprise me at all. I think these people live in poverty and pass it off as natural. She probably doesn’t have the money for diapers. Plus she had a newborn sitting on that stupid potty when he couldn’t even hold his head up. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[Spanger]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This doesn’t surprise me at all. I think these people live in poverty and pass it off as natural. She probably doesn’t have the money for diapers. Plus she had a newborn sitting on that stupid potty when he couldn’t even hold his head up. 

That was my first thought too.  Diapers aren’t cheap.  I guess “EC potty training” still beats the sad stories I’ve heard of babies with diaper rash because parents couldn’t afford enough diapers to change them as frequently as needed.  

Was I just imagining it or was there a shot of her holding baby up on the potty while the RV is moving?!  She said they do have diapers as a backup… surely that would be the time to use them, when in a moving vehicle?  I can’t imagine riding around with a baby on a potty seat- not only dangerous for the kid, but also imagining the brakes get slammed and the contents of the potty go flying everywhere 🤮

[JermajestyDuggar]

28 minutes ago, Spanger said:

That was my first thought too.  Diapers aren’t cheap.  I guess “EC potty training” still beats the sad stories I’ve heard of babies with diaper rash because parents couldn’t afford enough diapers to change them as frequently as needed.  

Was I just imagining it or was there a shot of her holding baby up on the potty while the RV is moving?!  She said they do have diapers as a backup… surely that would be the time to use them, when in a moving vehicle?  I can’t imagine riding around with a baby on a potty seat- not only dangerous for the kid, but also imagining the brakes get slammed and the contents of the potty go flying everywhere 🤮

Yes, it looked like she was riding in the RV while he was on the potty. When it comes to EC, the baby isn’t potty trained, the adults are. 

[imokit]

19 hours ago, HermioneSparrow said:

I'm sorry but she's a loon. Now she's "potty training" her son since birth. Apparently, she did it with her biological daughter as well.  https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuAPnwLAQ86/?igshid=MTI1ZDU5ODQ3Yw==

I don't like defending her, I object to defending this. She's pyscho and dangerous and people following her example are going to end up dead or with dead babies.

But elimination communication is a recognised thing, which has been done in various forms for a millennia and is still used regularly in parts of Asia.  Its not potty training, its parent training (with a bit of dog training) and can work.  From newborn the primary care giver, learns the signs and timings that the baby is about to go to the toilet and holds them over the pot.  They're potty trained quickly in the sense that, most wees and poos happen over a toilet/potty and not in a diaper, but its still involuntary from the baby's point of view.  The care giver then starts introducing a sound which they (the grown up) makes every time the child goes.  Gradually the baby associates the sound with the action of bladder/bowel release and as they mature and bladder/bowel sphincters get better (months-year later), they will go when the sound is done (ie on demand).

Most people in the developed world can't do it.  It requires constant one-one attention with a newborn and really knowing their cues. It won't work with childcare or family help.  But for an impoverished family, who are in a small space and a mum who isn't working, I can see it working and saving diaper/washing money.

 

Edit to point out, many parents can tell when a small baby is pooping.  If they held them over the toilet then instead of letting them go in their diaper that would be a mild version of this.

Edited June 29, 2023 by imokit

[HermioneSparrow]

4 hours ago, imokit said:

I don't like defending her, I object to defending this. She's pyscho and dangerous and people following her example are going to end up dead or with dead babies.

But elimination communication is a recognised thing, which has been done in various forms for a millennia and is still used regularly in parts of Asia.  Its not potty training, its parent training (with a bit of dog training) and can work.  From newborn the primary care giver, learns the signs and timings that the baby is about to go to the toilet and holds them over the pot.  They're potty trained quickly in the sense that, most wees and poos happen over a toilet/potty and not in a diaper, but its still involuntary from the baby's point of view.  The care giver then starts introducing a sound which they (the grown up) makes every time the child goes.  Gradually the baby associates the sound with the action of bladder/bowel release and as they mature and bladder/bowel sphincters get better (months-year later), they will go when the sound is done (ie on demand).

Most people in the developed world can't do it.  It requires constant one-one attention with a newborn and really knowing their cues. It won't work with childcare or family help.  But for an impoverished family, who are in a small space and a mum who isn't working, I can see it working and saving diaper/washing money.

 

Edit to point out, many parents can tell when a small baby is pooping.  If they held them over the toilet then instead of letting them go in their diaper that would be a mild version of this.

Thank you for the information! I might have to look into this but still think she's a loon, lol. 

[noseybutt]

5 hours ago, imokit said:

I don't like defending her, I object to defending this. She's pyscho and dangerous and people following her example are going to end up dead or with dead babies.

But elimination communication is a recognised thing, which has been done in various forms for a millennia and is still used regularly in parts of Asia.  Its not potty training, its parent training (with a bit of dog training) and can work.  From newborn the primary care giver, learns the signs and timings that the baby is about to go to the toilet and holds them over the pot.  They're potty trained quickly in the sense that, most wees and poos happen over a toilet/potty and not in a diaper, but its still involuntary from the baby's point of view.  The care giver then starts introducing a sound which they (the grown up) makes every time the child goes.  Gradually the baby associates the sound with the action of bladder/bowel release and as they mature and bladder/bowel sphincters get better (months-year later), they will go when the sound is done (ie on demand).

Most people in the developed world can't do it.  It requires constant one-one attention with a newborn and really knowing their cues. It won't work with childcare or family help.  But for an impoverished family, who are in a small space and a mum who isn't working, I can see it working and saving diaper/washing money.

 

Edit to point out, many parents can tell when a small baby is pooping.  If they held them over the toilet then instead of letting them go in their diaper that would be a mild version of this.

This.

Diapers have not always been a thing throughout history throughout cultures. (Or at least not a thing past the newborn stage). 

Co-sleeping, baby wearing, nursing through toddlerhood and early childhood, EC, and other “mother intensive” practices are not weird, in and of themselves.

The weirdness is the ideology that these women spout. With the most damaging/scary idea that these practices are meant for women within nuclear families. That it’s perfectly normal for a woman to do this by herself in a rural setting with a gazillion children underfoot and her husband off at work. That the social isolation is no big deal.

IME, these child rearing practices are/were within extended families and tribes and communities that offer some sort of communal and inter generational support to the moms and the children. 

[neuroticcat]

So basically someone holds the baby over a potty for a lot of the time rather than have a nappy catch everything? 

No scorn for people who don't have access to or want to use diapers or who want the connection it provides, but like with so many things with crunchy-mom groups, older doesn't necessarily automatically equal superior. 

[noseybutt]

22 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

So basically someone holds the baby over a potty for a lot of the time rather than have a nappy catch everything? 

No scorn for people who don't have access to or want to use diapers or who want the connection it provides, but like with so many things with crunchy-mom groups, older doesn't necessarily automatically equal superior. 

Unless parent is outdoors much of the day, I agree. 

[FilleMondaine]

Jennifer Worth talks about this practice in the impoverished East End. That these people want another version of ‘Call the Midwife’ with even less support is…fanatical.

[Smee]

On 6/30/2023 at 1:01 AM, noseybutt said:

The weirdness is the ideology that these women spout. With the most damaging/scary idea that these practices are meant for women within nuclear families. That it’s perfectly normal for a woman to do this by herself in a rural setting with a gazillion children underfoot and her husband off at work. That the social isolation is no big deal.

IME, these child rearing practices are/were within extended families and tribes and communities that offer some sort of communal and inter generational support to the moms and the children. 

Exactly. Before we had obstetricians and hospitals, we had midwives and communities full of women supporting one another through childbirth, not just mom and dad in a field with a video camera. Oh and death, we had a lot of that too.

Didn’t Mayim Bialik do elimination communication with her kids?

If you’d like to read another privileged white woman who chose ‘freebirth’ because it’s apparently superior, try this over the top account: https://www.blossomingwoman.com.au/blog/the-birth-of-zen-my-ecstatic-freebirth%2F

Not fundie or even religious, just so deep in the woo and “natural” that eschewing proper healthcare makes her feel really proud of herself like it’s an achievement or something.

[Sk8ter]

2 hours ago, Smee said:

Exactly. Before we had obstetricians and hospitals, we had midwives and communities full of women supporting one another through childbirth, not just mom and dad in a field with a video camera. Oh and death, we had a lot of that too.

Didn’t Mayim Bialik do elimination communication with her kids?

If you’d like to read another privileged white woman who chose ‘freebirth’ because it’s apparently superior, try this over the top account: https://www.blossomingwoman.com.au/blog/the-birth-of-zen-my-ecstatic-freebirth%2F

Not fundie or even religious, just so deep in the woo and “natural” that eschewing proper healthcare makes her feel really proud of herself like it’s an achievement or something.

Against my better judgment, I clicked on that link. Just.....wow. 

[noseybutt]

8 hours ago, Sk8ter said:

Against my better judgment, I clicked on that link. Just.....wow. 

Same.

I dug around on the site and it gets truly bizarre. The cultural appropriation. The feminism that feels very unfree. The birth focused on the sexual aspect of her relationship with her partner--not problematic per se yet it somehow manages to cross the threshold into unsafe when the vibe is so strong she casually forgets the placenta. The "deep in the woo" (beautiful term @Smee) that comes off as a thinly veiled business venture. Be natural! And make money doing it! So you too can stay home with your five children! 

Disclosure. I found giving birth to be a very spiritual (woo) experience but dang it, it was also labor. Bringing a child in the world is work and unpredictable and far too many women have died for me to jive with the message that there is no need to labor/work and no need to have a support system beyond a partner present to vibe rather than to bring any actual skill or medical knowledge to the birth.