M is for Mama 16

[JermajestyDuggar]

It definitely wasn’t the breastfeeding that got her in trouble but the sitting on the floor. You don’t fucking sit on the floor in St Peter’s you idiot. People will trip over you. Ugh she probably looked like a dumb ass American. It’s so embarrassing that she’s causing so many problems in Europe. I’m sure everyone knows she’s American. And then they will think we are all like that. 
 

Speculation bus:

Braggie is away from her twins for many hours at a time. They are eating regular food and likely can go a long time without nursing. I say this as someone who nursed my kid until age 2.5. I’m sure it was not an emergency to nurse him on the floor of St Peter’s. If it was so very urgent for one child to nurse and one having a tantrum, she could have taken them outside. She has plenty of help to watch all the rest of the kids while she deals with toddlers outside. But nope. She wanted to stay and nurse her toddler in public with another Tantrumming while just daring someone to say something. I bet she knew damn well they would ask her to leave. She wants to be a martyr again. What if she was in the middle of the adult section of the library? What if she was in the front row of an opera? I bet she would do the same. Because she’s Braggie. 

[front hugs > duggs]

Also, I can’t figure out exactly when/how she got kicked out? She mentions being a spectacle for 30 minutes as she tried to figure out a place to keep feeding the baby. But at no point did I hear from her that she was actually asked to leave or that the rest of their group left? Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t think they were formally asked to leave. 

[IrishCarrie]

Ok, I've been to the Vatican several times and I can clarify:

1. There is no issue with breast feeding. I know this because my friend once wandered around it with a baby attached to her boob in one of those sling things. Zero problem.

2. No one is allowed sit on the floor. It's a tourist attraction, people are moving around and looking up at exhibits and it's purely a health and safety issue that no one can camp on the floor at a spot of their choosing.

3. THOUSANDS of people go through the Vatican every day. You can absolutely take your time and go as slow as you like (I stand staring at the Madonna and Child for 20 minutes every time, it breaks my heart) but you cannot decamp to the floor whenever you feel like it. There are places/pews to sit in if you're exhausted and need a little sit-down.

4. It's an actual working church. Mass is said there several times per day. There's a nave of St. Peter's where this happens and signs everywhere in that area asking you to respect the fact that a religious ceremony is taking place and people are praying. So if you're in that particular vicinity with children that are having meltdowns, they'll absolutely ask you to move on.

5. St Peter's has a mother-and-baby room. It's right there beside the toilets. Hard to think someone of their large party didn't need the loo at some point and didn't think to mention that?

Abby is a total asshole. She clearly has no respect for the church/country she's in and thinks rules shouldn't apply to her. Well good luck trying that on the lads in charge in the Vatican... 🤣 

All that being said, I was there three weeks after my mother died very suddenly (she was very Catholic, I'm...not) and something about the smells and sounds of a Catholic Church were so familiar and so reminiscent of my childhood that I burst into tears right outside the nave where Mass was starting! Big hunky Italian security guy said, very kindly 'You wanna come sit and be in Mass? Or you want I should put you outside?' I immediately pictured him putting me in a fireman's lift over his shoulder and storming through the crowds and a second later I was giggling through the tears. I guarantee you, if it was possible for my mother to be watching, she'd have cried laughing 😂😂😂

The Vatican is amazeballs and should be number one on your list for Rome. Just don't be an Abby when you're in there. 

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, IrishCarrie said:

5. St Peter's has a mother-and-baby room. It's right there beside the toilets. Hard to think someone of their large party didn't need the loo at some point and didn't think to mention that?

For some reason this is making me laugh so much. Of course they do. Of course Abbie, being the super special snowflake that she is, didn't think to check this out earlier or even ask someone like, I dunno, the security guards? if there was anywhere she could go.

I was enjoying reading Mama loves Rome's tips on visiting the Vatican with kids - given I'm not a huge fan of crowds either I think I'll try some of her tips if I ever get there.

[Smee]

I last went to Europe when I was 21, with my 23 year old sister, and we spent a surprising amount of time in playgrounds for two adults. A lot of “let’s grab a baguette for lunch and find a park to sit in to eat” plus a fair bit of silly young adults taking joy in comparing European play equipment to home. We also went to two amusement parks (the Prater in Vienna and Disneyland in Paris). There are definitely plenty of child friendly places she could go for an hour between tourist attractions.

Also the radio this morning had a report about the number of families currently deciding to forgo heating (it’s coming in to winter here) so they can afford food. But sure Braggie, your life is just a different KIND of hard.

You know she’s probably right about that to a degree. Everyone feels stressed and upset sometimes, everyone has things that challenge them or make them despair, no matter how objectively blessed and privileged they are. But constant martyrdom is so irritating. Just admit that you’re wealthy and would rather distract yourself with a dozen children than face  what Jesus said about camels and needles.

[JDuggs]

14 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I'm kind of glad she was having to wrangle at least two of them. Don't they have pews in there she could sit on? Also don't they plan anything around food and naps and basically the requirements of the toddlers? 

When I mentioned that Abbie had one of the twins and Shiloh both melting down, it seemed that none of her “rad” teenagers or her babysitter was there to help her. (Shaun was dealing with the other twin.) So all of her problems weren’t caused by the Vatican staff. They were caused by a breakdown in her system of bringing five young kids to a tough tourist attraction without a proper plan for supervision. She did mention that all of the nearby seats were taken. And I don’t see how they could plan a sightseeing vacation around toddler naps besides leaving them back at the Airbnb most days with the babysitter. That’s why this trip was not a great plan for people who keep the needs of their toddlers as a priority.

[JermajestyDuggar]

55 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

When I mentioned that Abbie had one of the twins and Shiloh both melting down, it seemed that none of her “rad” teenagers or her babysitter was there to help her. (Shaun was dealing with the other twin.) So all of her problems weren’t caused by the Vatican staff. They were caused by a breakdown in her system of bringing five young kids to a tough tourist attraction without a proper plan for supervision. She did mention that all of the nearby seats were taken. And I don’t see how they could plan a sightseeing vacation around toddler naps besides leaving them back at the Airbnb most days with the babysitter. That’s why this trip was not a great plan for people who keep the needs of their toddlers as a priority.

If she had actually planned better, this probably would have worked out. She just had to Google if there was a nursing room or bathroom locations. And she would have known there was a room she could have gone to. Going there without the nanny was stupid. She plans like this on purpose. She wants shit to go down. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[SassyPants]

Last time I checked they were in Venice and had an unfavorable encounter with authorities because they were sitting on the stairs to a government building. Abbie and Shaun are just entitled, period. The rules of every day life seemingly do not apply to them as they see themselves in some sort of we get to do whatever we want cone because they are wealthy, religious and have too many children to safely monitor, guide or mentor. It is just that simple. When others call them and their children on their behaviors or poor decisions, Abbie gets miffed and takes to her SM platforms to attract more attention. She is not working with a full deck and he is checked out.

[JermajestyDuggar]

34 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Last time I checked they were in Venice and had an unfavorable encounter with authorities because they were sitting on the stairs to a government building. Abbie and Shaun are just entitled, period. The rules of every day life seemingly do not apply to them as they see themselves in some sort of we get to do whatever we want cone because they are wealthy, religious and have too many children to safely monitor, guide or mentor. It is just that simple. When others call them and their children on their behaviors or poor decisions, Abbie gets miffed and takes to her SM platforms to attract more attention. She is not working with a full deck and he is checked out.

I used to think she was entitled like Jill and that’s why she pulls this shit. And yes, I do think she’s entitled similarly to Jill. But I truly don’t think that’s all of it. She would never admit it but I think she’s looking for problems. I think she doesn’t want it all to go smoothly. She wants shit to hit the fan so she has something to write about. I’m sure she’s figured out by now what gets her the most likes, views, and comments. And that’s the post where shit hits the fan. She must notice the perfect happy posts get her less engagement. She likes playing the mommy martyr and she likes attention. 

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I used to think she was entitled like Jill and that’s why she pulls this shit. And yes, I do think she’s entitled similarly to Jill. But I truly don’t think that’s all of it. She would never admit it but I think she’s looking for problems. I think she doesn’t want it all to go smoothly. She wants shit to hit the fan so she has something to write about. I’m sure she’s figured out by now what gets her the most likes, views, and comments. And that’s the post where shit hits the fan. She must notice the perfect happy posts get her less engagement. She likes playing the mommy martyr and she likes attention. 

Yes, true. There were some things she posted in the last few days that made me think she was setting the stage for content. As an example, continually showing the littlest boys running around multiple establishments without shoes, or talking about how they are skipping naps or keeping the little ones late at night. And then in the next reel she is talking about how the twin boys are having tantrums and they are being reprimanded for the family’s collective antiestablishment choices. She stages the content that draws the attention, be it + attention or the converse.

Just 1 day after the Vatican debacle (reel posted, not necessary actual day), she posts about them being asked to move off the stairs of the municipal court building. And I wrongly labeled the city as Venice, but it was actually in the town of Assisi. You have to try really hard to have as many negative encounters as Abbie claims that the family has experienced. Of course she might be lying too.

This is why I think she’s not dealing with a full deck.

[Zebedee]

Isn't there some saying about how anyone can meet *an* asshole, but if everyone you meet is one, you're probably the AH? Not that I expect obnoxious people to do any self-reflection on this, and fundies are even worse, since they go looking for "persecution". It's not that her kids  (not that I blame them, obviously) - and she and Shaun (whom I do blame)  are extremely badly behaved and selfish, noooo - it's persecution for having such a large perfect family and being so obviously holy. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Zebedee said:

Isn't there some saying about how anyone can meet *an* asshole, but if everyone you meet is one, you're probably the AH? Not that I expect obnoxious people to do any self-reflection on this, and fundies are even worse, since they go looking for "persecution". It's not that her kids  (not that I blame them, obviously) - and she and Shaun (whom I do blame)  are extremely badly behaved and selfish, noooo - it's persecution for having such a large perfect family and being so obviously holy. 

You’re exactly right. She’ll spin these incidents, fabricated or otherwise, so her base will fawn all over her  with comments like, “no one, not even the RC Church, respects, appreciates or honors big families.” “They” are out to get “us”. This is why we need to vote for Donald Trump. He tells these pro-aborts how it is. Big families are the best and greatest, and the heathen rules do not apply to us. Poor us…

[fundiewatch]

I nursed my son until I was 4, but her story is stupid and/or bad parenting. 2-1/2 year old kids don’t meltdown to nurse as she is claiming. She sucks. 

[MomKB]

Yeah, you'd think she'd know to look for a nursing room after 10 kids. 🙄

[SassyPants]

36 minutes ago, MomKB said:

Yeah, you'd think she'd know to look for a nursing room after 10 kids. 🙄

Maybe because she has never really parented 10 kids, so she has no clue how to best handle each development stage and to avoid triggers that cause meltdown and chaos. Plus she lacks organization skills. Again, this is likely because she has never handled all the kids by herself. She is used to her mother doing 75% of the work, cleaning up behind Abbie and remembering all the little details so shit doesn’t fall through the cracks. 

And she is lazy and blind, deaf and dumb to anyone’s needs but her own.

[tankgirl]

I am agreeing with some of you now, I wasn't full on sure if she was setting these bad occasions up for her SM until this trip and the icing for me is the Vatican story. She spun the life out of that story so she can claim the issue was the Breastfeeding for her followers, but it wasn't she told the truth in the story itself, but added just enough to get the attention. Oh and her latest Story from Venice with her kids hanging out the window seal the deal for me.

This is why I hate myself for looking at these holiday posts. I loved Rome and as guilty as I feel to admited I liked seeing some of the Rome pics she shared, but so much of her pics this trip have been so boring and I hate giving her the views. Well after the holiday I will ignore her and let you all tell me what she is up too again. I admit I am curious how she does in England!

[0 kids n not countin]

🙄

[JermajestyDuggar]

52 minutes ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

🙄

Braggie got out of there because she couldn’t stand to look at someone just like her. 

[0 kids n not countin]

I also agree she's setting these situations up for sm, post after post of her brood walking around or eating gelato gets boring pretty fast!!

[FundianaJones]

If there's anything I learnt in my training as a linguist, it is that when we speak, we give a lot of things away, even if we're trying really hard to hide them or deceive. Braggie's story about "getting kicked out" of the Vatican (she wasn't) was one such instance. In it, she mentions that she made a spectacle of herself. And for me, this is a dead giveaway of what her ultimate motivation is for this trip. As I said earlier, this is a trip for Europe to see Braggie. She's determined to be seen. And yes, this means that she is totally invested in making a spectacle of herself, and of her family, so as to get the attention she craves. She's probably miserable that she doesn't get as many comments on the size of her family as she does in the US (that's, I think, normal for Europe, where we're not as chatty --and where there are other languages involved). And then, because she's determined to BE SEEN, she's definitely forcing the situations, the bare feet, the wild unsupervised toddlers running around, screaming and climbing on stuff, the plonking all thirteen of them just wherever, in the middle of the crowds, the reprimands from officials and side-eye from regular people. She craves the attention that is elicited by their own boorish incivility, and of course will then spin it as "persecution of large families" for her misguided followers.

[Gobsmacked]

On 5/18/2023 at 12:50 AM, SassyPants said:

Today’s IG- the family spent an hour (parents included) sliding down the concrete next to a set of stairs in Marseilles. I thought they were in a park. Nope it was stairs that people traverse to navigate the town. Are there no actual parks with playgrounds that these people can take their kids to play in on the European continent?

Lots of play parks available. When our two were young we were forever complains that Scotland didn’t have a huge  number of play parks available . European countries always had somewhere for them to play. 

[SassyPants]

In 2020 when they had originally planned a European trip was the itinerary this extensive? I am shocked at the ground they are covering. I mistakingly thought they were having a nice getaway to the French countryside, with side trips to Paris and a couple of days in London. When Abbie had mentioned that their next stop was Italy, I thought maybe Milan or Lake Como. This trip is in constant motion and not at all designed for anyone under age 8. Not that they are doing too many touristy activities, rather a bunch of walk and drive boys, but it’s still constant movement and no set schedule for those littlest boys. Not my idea of a vacation at all.

[Hane]

Re Ugly Americans (as seen in my tour of Italy in 2005):

On the island of Capri, there were walls along many of the sidewalks adorned with decorative tiles. One very common one said something like, “Silence and dignity are the hallmarks of a civilized society” (in Italian, of course). I cringed when I saw my fellow American tourists walking along guffawing and chattering loudly as the locals rolled their eyes in disgust.

In Assisi, we visited the basilicas of St. Francis and St. Claire. When our guide very politely reminded the tourists that we should maintain a respectful silence, one guy in his 20s actually asked, “Why?” He was apparently oblivious to the custom of quiet in a house of worship.

[JillyO]

On 5/29/2023 at 1:27 PM, fundiewatch said:

I nursed my son until I was 4, but her story is stupid and/or bad parenting. 2-1/2 year old kids don’t meltdown to nurse as she is claiming. She sucks. 

Right. You don’t need to nurse a 2.5-year-old on demand. You can just give them a snack and/or a drink and explain that they can nurse when you find a good spot/when you get back to the hotel/before bedtime, whatever. But of course then you wouldn’t have a martyr story for your fans. 

[0 kids n not countin]

She allows them to run amok on the train too.  At least they, or one of them, has shoes on.  I understand it can be difficult for toddlers to sit still, but she is a mother of 10, surely she would expect this and have activities or ideas to keep them occupied??

Edited May 31, 2023 by 0 kids n not countin