2020 Election Fallout Part 16: Public Hearings Are Underway

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

57 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Good. They all deserve to be locked up. 

 

I’ve said it before but I get a petty bitch enjoyment out of knowing that the people who were there on Jan. 6 are either feeling they got away with it (and may be right OR may get a knock on the door someday) or have spent a lot of time since the arrests started wondering and worrying if their time is coming. The ones who were charged low and got in early are the lucky ones in some ways. They got it all over right away and can move on. But the people who are going through life wondering day by day if they are the next one to be arrested must be agonizing. And I say GOOD! 

[Dandruff]

On 1/2/2023 at 12:14 AM, AlmostSavedAtTacoBell said:

I’ve said it before but I get a petty bitch enjoyment out of knowing that the people who were there on Jan. 6 are either feeling they got away with it (and may be right OR may get a knock on the door someday) or have spent a lot of time since the arrests started wondering and worrying if their time is coming. The ones who were charged low and got in early are the lucky ones in some ways. They got it all over right away and can move on. But the people who are going through life wondering day by day if they are the next one to be arrested must be agonizing. And I say GOOD! 

They probably viewed themselves as one big loyal team.  I imagine they're now wondering who might rat them out and for what.

[GreyhoundFan]

[Dandruff]

30 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

If it looks like a duck...

[Xan]

I'm glad that Hope Hicks said this but... come on!  You work for the guy and know that he's a sleaze and totally incompetent but then you're surprised when he continues to make terrible decisions?  You knew he was a snake when you took him in.  You just wanted to ride that gravy train as long as possible.  Have fun being unemployed!

[GreyhoundFan]

The great thinker weighs in:

 

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

On 1/3/2023 at 2:37 AM, Dandruff said:

They probably viewed themselves as one big loyal team.  I imagine they're now wondering who might rat them out and for what.

I still think that there were some who were highly organized and had a very serious plan but Trump did his usual idiotic bloviating so instead of just the original crew going to the Capitol, a mass riot went which interferes with the set plans. Unless I am misinterpreting the evidence, some of the “crowd” broke away and headed to the Capitol before Trump did his stupid call for the march to the Capitol while claiming he would be with them. I really think the plan was for the renegades to move away, take over, execute Pence and most members of Congress, and then the remaining (insurrectionist) members would refuse to certify then declare Trump POTUS ad infinitum. The problem arose when Trump couldn’t resist showboating, got everyone all hyped up, and they all went to the Capitol as well. Ironically Trump’s need for adulation may have had a big part in rescuing our country on January 6. The idiots got in the way of the plan, one idiot got herself shot, and then it was pretty much over (no disrespect meant to the responders who later died or who have had long term effects.) I really so think that but for the sheep-like nature of the Trumpers, Jan. 6 could have taken a far worse and darker turn. 

[Ozlsn]

I certainly think there were a far more serious group who intended to delay the vote at the very least - I think the crowd moving was intended as cover for them, basically by tying up resources while they were taking/had already taken control. The main crowd possibly moved faster/earlier than intended, and let the police move past them to the buildings - as far as quite a few people seem to have thought they were making a peaceful protest march, and an ingrained response of letting emergency services through prevailed at that point.

16 hours ago, AlmostSavedAtTacoBell said:

I really so think that but for the sheep-like nature of the Trumpers, Jan. 6 could have taken a far worse and darker turn

Agreed, and one that would have been much harder to come back from.

[GreyhoundFan]

Sigh:

 

[Ozlsn]

I honestly half expected to wake up to another protest/insurgency going on at the Capitol, so protesting outside jails is much better. 

[GreyhoundFan]

Like daughter, like mother:

 

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

6 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Like daughter, like mother:

 

I remember way back when we were asked to submit the quotes we wanted under our pictures in our high school senior yearbook. I mulled over many that meant so much to me before finally submitting my choice. Lo these many years later, I am regretting that I did not put forth “Capitol Police suck ass!” as my quote. 

[GreyhoundFan]

Good grief:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Wow is right:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Wow:

 

[CTRLZero]

Quote from the article:

Abate also admitted he heard how the event was being portrayed negatively and decided that he should not tell anybody about going into the U.S. Capitol Building," the court document said.

———-

I find it pretty darn sad/infuriating that being part of a mob that storms the Capitol might be viewed positively by certain groups.  Looking forward to learning how these military cases are treated.  One consolation is that these criminals were likely sweating and keeping a low profile for the last two years.  

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Wow:

 

Since they were active duty, I'd like to know whether they were supposed to be at work that day and - if so - what reasons they gave for wanting time off.

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Since they were active duty, I'd like to know whether they were supposed to be at work that day and - if so - what reasons they gave for wanting time off.

"I'd like a three-day pass for, um . . . storming - er, insurrec - that is . . . sir, my aunt, ummmm . . . Donaldia called, and my uncle . . . um . . . Electo died - I need to go to the funeral."

I have to joke, or I'd punch a wall, and I can't afford a broken hand and wall right now.

[Ozlsn]

I had completely forgotten the difference in how protesters arrested at Trump's inauguration were treated compared to J6. 

Also watching the difference in how Brazil is reacting after their recent election "protest" compared to post-J6 is interesting - I realise the legal systems are quite different but Brazil appear to be investigating and arresting from the top down, which may be putting the fear of God into certain people.

"According to the George Washington University's Project on Extremism, out of the 940 defendants charged with crimes stemming from Jan. 6, 118, or 12%, have some form of military background."

Used to an authoritarian structure, or just networking? Either way they have utterly screwed their careers.

[SassyPants]

43 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

I had completely forgotten the difference in how protesters arrested at Trump's inauguration were treated compared to J6. 

Also watching the difference in how Brazil is reacting after their recent election "protest" compared to post-J6 is interesting - I realise the legal systems are quite different but Brazil appear to be investigating and arresting from the top down, which may be putting the fear of God into certain people.

"According to the George Washington University's Project on Extremism, out of the 940 defendants charged with crimes stemming from Jan. 6, 118, or 12%, have some form of military background."

Used to an authoritarian structure, or just networking? Either way they have utterly screwed their careers.

Can you imagine throwing your career down the toilet for Trump? Good Lord!

[OldFadedStar]

yeah, those military members are prob gonna get a dishonorable discharge which is pretty much career suicide anywhere.

[GreyhoundFan]

"Four Oath Keepers found guilty of Jan. 6 seditious conspiracy"

Quote

Four members of the far-right Oath Keepers group were convicted of seditious conspiracy Monday, joining founder Stewart Rhodes in being found guilty by a jury of plotting to keep President Donald Trump in power by force.

Seditious conspiracy charges are rarely used and even more rarely successful, making the verdict a significant victory for the Justice Department. Of the nearly 1,000 people charged with committing crimes at the Capitol on Jan. 6, only 14 were charged with seditious conspiracy, identified by the Justice Department as not just participants in a violent mob but leaders using brutality to further a political plot. In November, the same prosecution team failed to convict three associates of the Oath Keepers of the crime.

At Rhodes’s trial only he and Florida Oath Keepers leader Kelly Meggs were found guilty of conspiring to commit sedition, while three associates were convicted of less politically loaded felonies that did not require plans to use force. The Oath Keepers verdict — which came after the jury deliberated for about 13 hours — comes as five members of the Proud Boys face trial down the hall on seditious conspiracy charges.

Joseph Hackett, 52, ; Roberto Minuta, 38; David Moerschel, 45 and Edward Vallejo, 64, were all also convicted Monday of obstructing lawmakers and Congress generally and conspiring to do the same. Hackett was convicted of destroying evidence by deleting it from his devices, while Minuta and Moerschel were acquitted on that charge. Hackett and Moerschel were acquitted of responsibility for damaging the Capitol’s historic Columbus doors.

The Oath Keepers were described by federal prosecutors as armed and dangerous traitors, and by their attorneys as hapless has-beens who stumbled into chaos.

“They claimed to wrap themselves in the Constitution, but they trampled it,” prosecutor Jeffrey Nestler said in closing arguments. “They ignored the will of the people,” he said, but “had the audacity to claim to be oath-keepers.”

U.S. District Judge Amit P. Mehta allowed all four men to await sentencing on 24-hour house arrest, noting that none of them had prior criminal history or issues on pretrial release.

Hackett and Moerschel traveled to D.C. from Florida with Meggs and followed him into the Capitol at 2:38 p.m. Minuta was in a separate Oath Keeper group providing security for Trump confidante Roger Stone that morning. Stone refused to leave his hotel because the Oath Keepers could not guarantee him access to the presidential stage, according to the testimony. When the riot started, Minuta and the others left Stone and rode hotel golf carts over to the Capitol. They entered around 3:15 p.m. and were pushed out a few minutes later, as Minuta shouted at the officers, “All that’s left is the Second Amendment!”

Vallejo came with friends from Arizona; he spent the morning of Jan. 6 trying to figure out where he parked his truck the day before. Then surveillance video shows he went back to the Ballston Comfort Inn where the Oath Keepers had stashed their guns. During the riot he repeatedly offered by text to come in as a “Quick Reaction Force,” and the next morning he went back to the Capitol to “probe the defense line,” but he got no response either time.

After the riot, the Oath Keepers dined at an Olive Garden in Tysons. At first, they were eagerly planning next steps, attendee Joe Harrington testified, like “preparing for a trip to Disney World.” Then they learned that federal agents were looking for them, and it was “like when the lights come on and the cockroaches scatter.” Several members woke up the next morning to find that their leaders had hastily left D.C.

Federal prosecutors alleged more emphatically than in the previous trial that the Oath Keepers came close to committing deadly violence. Rhodes expressed regret after Jan. 6 about not having rifles that day. Assistant U.S. Attorney Louis Manzo told jurors that both Minuta and Vallejo might have killed lawmakers had they not been deterred by the Capitol Police on Jan. 6 and the National Guard the day after.

Noting testimony that Florida Oath Keeper Kenneth Harrelson pushed Capitol Police to see if he could feel body armor, Manzo argued that “shooting officers … was on the table.” That allegation was not made before Harrelson, who was tried with Rhodes, was acquitted of seditious conspiracy in November.

“This isn’t Twitter fingers,” Manzo said, referring to defense attorneys’ claims that their clients were all talk. “These are traitors. They were ready for violence.”

Through attorneys, the defendants claimed their motives and actions, while foolish, were idiosyncratic and unplanned. They were drawn to the Oath Keepers not to overthrow the government but for protection from the antifascists, criminals and covid restrictions right-wing media led them to fear, they argued. Rhodes then convinced them he was likely to receive orders directly from President Donald Trump to muster as a defense force under the Insurrection Act.

“Responsibility really rests at our politicians’ feet,” Moerschel’s attorney, Scott Weinberg said. “The president and Stewart Rhodes were claiming that the world is coming to an end even before the election.” He said most Oath Keepers quit after about a year, when they realized it was just Rhodes’s “piggy bank” — and that those who joined the fray on Jan. 6 were mostly “rookies.”

Trump did not invoke the Insurrection Act. Prosecutors say that’s when the Oath Keepers decided to act on their own. One former member, 21-year-old Caleb Berry, testified that Meggs explicitly directed the group to stop the vote count.

The defendants said that was a fabrication from an unreliable narrator, and that those who entered the Capitol did so spontaneously. Berry was not called to testify against Meggs in the first trial.

“The breach of the U.S. Capitol was a surprise to each and every one of the Oath Keepers,” Hackett’s attorney, Angie Halim, said in her closing argument. Weinberg compared it to “a soccer stampede.” Minuta “lost his cool” when pushed by an officer but hadn’t planned to get violent, his attorney, William Shipley, said: “Everybody has their sort of worst moments.”

Halim accused the Justice Department of doing a “curiously limited” investigation, with inexperienced FBI agents who “did not understand and did not bother to learn” about their targets beyond text messages and social media posts.

“There’s an understandable desire to demand accountability,” she said. “They failed here.”

Brian Ulrich, a 44-year-old Oath Keeper who pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy in April, testified that he arrived at the Capitol with Minuta and paused for several minutes at the doors.

“I was battling out this fact that I knew going in there was wrong with this feeling that I’ve got to do something,” he said.

In crossing the threshold, he told jurors, he became part of an attempt to block the transfer of power by force that he now regrets. “It was all kind of building up to this point,” he recalled thinking. “We’ve gotten this far.” But he testified that he did not expect when he agreed to guard Stone to be storming the Capitol later that day.

“I didn’t know the sixth would be the sixth,” he said.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

"Man photographed in Pelosi’s office on Jan. 6 convicted of 8 counts"

Quote

An Arkansas man who entered the U.S. Capitol with rioters on Jan. 6, 2021, and was photographed lounging at a desk in then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office suite was convicted Monday of eight federal crimes related to the incursion.

Richard “Bigo” Barnett, who acknowledged leaving a vulgar written message for Pelosi before departing the suite with a purloined envelope bearing the California Democrat’s digital signature, sat impassively as a jury in U.S. District Court in Washington delivered its verdicts.

After eight days of testimony and legal arguments in Barnett’s trial, the panel began deliberating Monday morning and reached guilty findings on all eight counts against him, including four felonies, in less than two hours.

As for potential prison time, the most serious charge in the case, obstructing an official proceeding, carries a maximum penalty of 20 years behind bars. Based on previous prosecutions of Jan. 6 defendants, however, advisory sentencing guidelines used by the court are likely to recommend a much shorter term for Barnett.

Although a prosecutor argued Monday that Barnett, who lives in tiny Gravette, Ark., in the Ozarks, should be jailed pending his May 3 sentencing, Judge Christopher R. Cooper allowed him remain on home detention.

Barnett, a construction company employee in 2020 and an ardent supporter of then-President Donald Trump, was carrying a walking stick equipped with a 950,000-volt stun device when he entered the Capitol with a riotous mob. Congress was meeting that day to confirm Joe Biden’s victory in the presidential election despite Trump’s false claim that he had been denied a second term because of voter fraud.

In addition to obstructing an official proceeding, Barnett was convicted of two felonies related to carrying a dangerous weapon during the attack on the Capitol and a felony charge of civil disorder. The four misdemeanors he was convicted of included theft of government property, meaning the empty envelope.

Authorities said the stun device on his retractable walking stick was capable of rendering a person unconscious if held against the skin for 10 seconds.

Legally speaking, it did not matter to prosecutors whether Barnett sat or stood in the House speaker’s deserted office suite. His alleged criminal presence in the Capitol was the key issue in his trial.

But what brought him to viral notoriety was his decision to recline nonchalantly in a staff member’s swivel chair and plunk his left work boot atop the desk.

Like Jacob Chansley, the shirtless so-called QAnon shaman, who roamed the Capitol in face paint and horned headgear during the riot, and another accused trespasser, often referred to as the “zip tie guy,” who scaled the Senate gallery wearing military fatigues and carrying a fistful of plastic handcuffs, Barnett became an avatar of the Jan. 6 mayhem in widely viewed images captured by photojournalists.

Chansley was sentenced to 41 months in prison. The accused “zip tie guy,” identified by the FBI as Eric Munchel, is awaiting trial in U.S. District Court.

On the witness stand last week, Barnett said he was “pushed” past the massive Columbus Doors on the Capitol’s East Front by a surging mob and wandered into Pelosi’s office suite while searching for a bathroom. He told jurors that he kicked back at the desk and plopped a foot up after two news photographers asked him to “sit down and act natural.”

Both photojournalists denied Barnett’s assertions in statements after his testimony, saying Barnett acted on his own and that they did not urge him to pose. Neither photographer was called to testify in the case.

After exiting the Capitol, Barnett waved the stolen envelope in front of video cameras and boasted that he had left a note on the desk for Pelosi, reading, “Nancy, Bigo was here, you b----.” Shouting hoarsely, he added, “I put a quarter on the desk” for the envelope “even though she ain’t f---ing worth it.”

In court, Barnett’s lawyers said their client had suffered a cut during the riot and that he took the envelope out of the building because his blood was on it, making it a biohazard. They also argued that the envelope was not “stolen” because 25 cents was fair compensation.

They said Barnett did not enter the building willingly, that he was carried in by the tide of the mob. They said he did not obstruct an official proceeding because by the time he entered the Capitol, at 2:43 p.m., the joint session of Congress already had recessed because of the riot. They said the stun device on his “Hike ’n Strike” walking stick was broken, therefore he was not carrying a dangerous weapon.

“Right now, the world hates Richard Barnett,” defense attorney Joseph D. McBride said in his closing argument Friday. “The world looks at him in disgust. … There really is no place for a man like him in today’s world. But that’s not a reason to convict him.”

Prosecutors scoffed at each of Barnett’s defenses, saying in court that he had lied on the witness stand in an effort to minimize his culpability. Apparently the jury also was unmoved by Barnett’s testimony. The panel did not begin deliberating on the eight charges until 9:30 a.m. Monday, and they finished well before lunchtime.

Then Barnett, surrounded by his attorneys and loved ones, walked out of the federal courthouse, headed home to western Arkansas to await his sentencing.

“I’m a Christian,” he had said on the witness stand in apologizing for his crude missive to the then-House speaker. “It just wasn’t good. It wasn’t who I am.”

But Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael M. Gordon ridiculed that statement, as well.

“He is regretful that he got caught,” Gordon told the jury in his closing argument. “He is regretful that he is being prosecuted. … He is not regretful that he, personally, participated in an effort to stop the peaceful transfer of power.”

 

[Dandruff]

9 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

"Man photographed in Pelosi’s office on Jan. 6 convicted of 8 counts"

 

A long sentence will let him and everyone watching know that our country won't tolerate what he did. 

If the message isn't powerfully gotten across then who knows what might happen next time.

[GreyhoundFan]

Big surprise, Barnett is taking his conviction like a toddler: