Katie & Travis 3: Married and Expecting to be Expecting Soon….

[Johannah]

The best way to worsen her phobia is to not drive. I don’t buy this Katie is a terrible driver thing. This is a misogynistic cult that likes to denigrate women using tried stereotypes. 
 

Driving is not hard. If you feel uncomfortable, err on the side of caution - drive the speed limit, obey traffic laws, don’t follow other cars too closely. That alone will make you a better driver than other cars on the road. 
 

Also, I can’t imagine having a 20 year old daughter who refuses to drive and not staging an intervention instead of laughing at her and contributing to the problem. Gil and Kelly have failed as parents. 
 

Katie has a drivers license, so clearly the state of Tennessee has deemed her capable of driving. She is a healthy young adult who is free of disabilities. “Not being good at driving” is actually anxiety and years of being put down by her sexist family.
 

She needs to just put her license in her wallet, get in the car, and start driving. Her fear and self-confidence and isolation are only going to worsen if she doesn’t. And her husband and family should be encouraging her instead of continuing to put her down and make fun of her. 

[GreenBeans]

39 minutes ago, Johannah said:

Driving is not hard. If you feel uncomfortable, err on the side of caution - drive the speed limit, obey traffic laws, don’t follow other cars too closely. That alone will make you a better driver than other cars on the road. 
 

Also, I can’t imagine having a 20 year old daughter who refuses to drive and not staging an intervention instead of laughing at her and contributing to the problem. Gil and Kelly have failed as parents. 

I can absolutely understand not wanting to drive. I have a driver’s license, but hated driving from the very first time I ever tried it. I got my license because that’s just what you did when you turned 18 here where I live, and I did pass the test at the first try. But after getting my license, I only drove a short distance the day after, and never again. It scares me so much that for a long  time after getting my license, I felt really uncomfortable (looking back it might even have been anxiety attacks, but I’m not sure) even just being a passenger in a car.

I am a perfectly functioning, capable adult with a job, husband and kid, so I don’t think the mere fact I don’t drive would warrant an “intervention”.

The difference is: I live in a city/area where driving is not necessary, so it doesn’t really have any impact. And obviously my parents wouldn’t have laughed at me for not driving, but supported me to give it another try.

I always thought I’d have to get over my hate/fear of driving at some point when it would become necessary to drive. But well, I’m nearing my 40s, so far there hasn’t been a need. If I lived in/moved to a more rural/suburban area like Katie, I would absolutely work on my driving skills in order to keep my independence!

[JDuggs]

Katie seems to love making videos when she’s a passenger in the car with Travis driving. She’s prioritizing her videos over practicing to drive. Every time she and Travis are driving locally, not highways, etc., she should be behind the wheel working on her confidence. I was a very timid driver at her age too so I get it. But she needs to force herself to overcome her fears by practicing.

[Keys]

Yeah, I totally think it’s different if you live somewhere with good access to public transportation, but she’s clearly limited by her lack of ability to comfortably drive. On Travis’ birthday, he was driving her places so she could pick up balloons etc for his own birthday party. I hope that he can support her in trying to drive a little bit to get her feet wet there. I know people who aren’t comfortable driving and won’t drive on the highway, but they’re still able to drive for necessities like groceries and work etc

[just_ordinary]

I mean, Katie might be a bad driver? But so what? So many people are and they still grace the rest of us on the street….. Being inexperienced, afraid and overthinking it can be quite dangerous as well though, but that’s something where practice will get you to an ok level. 
My problem with Katie is that I think it’s completely unclear what she actually wants. She might have talked about nursing as a teen, but it never seemed as if she really considered it for real to me. It just sounded good and with the show you never know how much played up big time. She also never seemed really into beauty like Josie. She reminds me more of Carlin. Thriving of being cute and getting lots of attention online. Carlin has the benefit of having a partner that’s fully into it as well. In all honesty, Katie doesn’t look overly into the idea of working in the family business. And while I appreciate that she might have a hard time to adjust to her new circumstances- it doesn’t look as if she is trying a lot from the outside. She could fill her days with lots of stuff to settle in her new role. I mean it sucks. She obviously didn’t realised what she signed up for. And the pretty facade of the well off in laws is probably showing lots of cracks. I think she believed she could be successful online with spending money and being cute, and a cute baby is also great content. Those Bates sisters strike me as very competitive with each other, even if they hide it quite well. So her current situation is not really one to gloat about. But as long as she isn’t doing a 180, her situation is not changing from sulking and rolling in self pity and homesickness. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by just_ordinary

[Nothing if not critical]

4 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I can absolutely understand not wanting to drive.

I am a perfectly functioning, capable adult with a job, husband and kid, so I don’t think the mere fact I don’t drive would warrant an “intervention”.

The difference is: I live in a city/area where driving is not necessary, so it doesn’t really have any impact. And obviously my parents wouldn’t have laughed at me for not driving, but supported me to give it another try.

This. My situation is similar: got my license at 18, out in the country, didn't like driving much, but was reasonably okay with it at first, then had two small (but expensive) accidents in quick succession, which made me hate it more. I made sure I ended up living in a place where I never have to drive, and I haven't been behind the wheel since 1999. We rent a car on vacation, but my husband does all the driving, since he actually loves it and enjoys getting the chance to do it.

Mind you, if I ever were in a situation where I needed to drive regularly again, I'd take a few refresher lessons and do my best to get over it. But the way things are, I probably won't have to.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Nothing if not critical

[llucie]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

 She reminds me more of Carlin. Thriving of being cute and getting lots of attention online. Carlin has the benefit of having a partner that’s fully into it as well. In all honesty, Katie doesn’t look overly into the idea of working in the family business. And while I appreciate that she might have a hard time to adjust to her new circumstances- it doesn’t look as if she is trying a lot from the outside. She could fill her days with lots of stuff to settle in her new role. I mean it sucks. She obviously didn’t realised what she signed up for. And the pretty facade of the well off in laws is probably showing lots of cracks. I think she believed she could be successful online with spending money and being cute, and a cute baby is also great content. Those Bates sisters strike me as very competitive with each other, even if they hide it quite well. So her current situation is not really one to gloat about. But as long as she isn’t doing a 180, her situation is not changing from sulking and rolling in self pity and homesickness. 

Carlin is the one that had the idea about the boutique, and not only she made it happen but she clearly cares a lot about it.

I dont know if the problem with Katie is that she doesnt want to do anything or if she just doesnt like any of the options she has. I always felt her parents pressured her to do the cosmetology course instead of what she really wanted. Now if she wants to work she can either be an hairdresser (from home) or work in her in-laws school. Not a lot of options.

[Tangy Bee]

Don't the Bates live in the mountains of TN? If Katie can drive in the mountains, then she should be alright driving in the NJ suburbs. Now driving in Atlanta and Brooklyn really kicks my ass so I'm not assuming her fears of driving aren't an overreaction.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Tangy Bee

[CanadianMamam]

I can drive rural. I can handle winding roads and steep hills but I get nervous with other drivers, especially agressive ones, so I can sympathize with Katie.

Edited March 15, 2022 by CanadianMamam

[PurpleCats]

I’ve been driving since 14, and live in a major city where I commuted daily until the pandemic.  I still hate driving.  Driving in the city is very different than in a rural area, even if you are in a suburb of the city.  Trying to follow gps & deal with cars on the road may be overwhelming and there’s nothing wrong with her feeling that way.  

[Keys]

1 minute ago, PurpleCats said:

I’ve been driving since 14, and live in a major city where I commuted daily until the pandemic.  I still hate driving.  Driving in the city is very different than in a rural area, even if you are in a suburb of the city.  Trying to follow gps & deal with cars on the road may be overwhelming and there’s nothing wrong with her feeling that way.  

For sure! I felt uncomfortable and overwhelmed with driving when I moved from a small city to a big/busy city for school. I didn’t know how to get places and was reliant on GPS, the roads were busy and drivers were aggressive/would honk, and parking was a nightmare. But within a few months of driving there, it became second nature and I felt totally comfortable (took a little longer to feel comfortable on the highway there, but that came with time, too!). But avoiding it completely doesn’t help and won’t allow for any progress to be made. 

[candygirl200413]

Like snow I can understand not being used to it but she is the suburbs and it didn't look like it was on a major road so if she could handle rural she can handle the suburbs. Plus she has all the free time to gain experience.

[SassyPants]

Doesn’t it snow in rural TN? I still think it’s telling that so many of the Duggar and Bates 2  generation seem to lack in basic skills that led to independence. Katie likely has not had much experience driving. She is kid whatever double digit and probably was never relied on to drive herself or others around. It seems in these mega families the only skills that got imparted, and it was mostly to the oldest kids, are those that helped the parents cope, in the moment. So Michaela was good at wiping butts and potty training because that’s what KJ and G needed at the moment. I used to scratch my head that the Duggar kids didn’t have decent homemaking skills, but then when you think about it, there was no time to impart those skills. Everything was shortcuts, hacks, open cans and dump meals and just getting by. Such an unhealthy way to raise kids or form a family.  And really unfortunate when at the same time you’re just “getting by” you have parents telling their kids that this way is the best, most superior and only way to live life. *cult life, shudders*

[0 kids n not countin]

Her Instagram stories are boring, some of her siblings are much better at schilling crap.  Also, sotdrt I assume, but would someone please explain to her that 50% off plus an additional 20% off does not equal 70% off. 🙄

WTF

I suppose the leg humpers who follow here wouldn't know the difference either...🤔🙄

[Johannah]

18 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I can absolutely understand not wanting to drive. I have a driver’s license, but hated driving from the very first time I ever tried it. I got my license because that’s just what you did when you turned 18 here where I live, and I did pass the test at the first try. But after getting my license, I only drove a short distance the day after, and never again. It scares me so much that for a long  time after getting my license, I felt really uncomfortable (looking back it might even have been anxiety attacks, but I’m not sure) even just being a passenger in a car.

I am a perfectly functioning, capable adult with a job, husband and kid, so I don’t think the mere fact I don’t drive would warrant an “intervention”.

The difference is: I live in a city/area where driving is not necessary, so it doesn’t really have any impact. And obviously my parents wouldn’t have laughed at me for not driving, but supported me to give it another try.

I always thought I’d have to get over my hate/fear of driving at some point when it would become necessary to drive. But well, I’m nearing my 40s, so far there hasn’t been a need. If I lived in/moved to a more rural/suburban area like Katie, I would absolutely work on my driving skills in order to keep my independence!

I’m assuming you live in Europe? There are very few places you can live in the US and not drive, especially if you plan to have a bazillion kids. I got away with not having a car or driving much for years by living in New York, but once you leave the city there are very few public transit options. 
 

A lot of people are saying they can sympathize with Katie, and I completely agree. I’m not saying she doesn’t have a right to feel nervous about driving, but in her situation and lifestyle it is completely debilitating to continue to choose not to drive.
 

She already has a male headship. She is going to be even more trapped and isolated and under his control if she can’t/won’t drive. If he works and she’s home with kids, she will never be able to leave, not even to go for Target runs or playgrounds or drive through fast food like her sisters. She will never be able to drive to Tennessee with the kids when she’s feeling homesick. She can’t get a job doing hair at a salon. If there’s an emergency she can’t take her kid to the hospital. 
 

In the environment she was raised in and the country she lives in, not driving is extremely odd and debilitating. It strikes me as childlike and a sign of underlying anxiety.
 

I also think she’s the victim of rampant sexism. There’s no way Gil and Kelly would have let this happen to one of their sons. Instead they just laugh at Katie, undermine her self-esteem, and reinforce her doubts about her abilities by constantly making fun of her driving. It’s really tragic. 

[rebeccawriter01]

10 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Doesn’t it snow in rural TN? I still think it’s telling that so many of the Duggar and Bates 2  generation seem to lack in basic skills that led to independence. Katie likely has not had much experience driving. She is kid whatever double digit and probably was never relied on to drive herself or others around. It seems in these mega families the only skills that got imparted, and it was mostly to the oldest kids, are those that helped the parents cope, in the moment. So Michaela was good at wiping butts and potty training because that’s what KJ and G needed at the moment. I used to scratch my head that the Duggar kids didn’t have decent homemaking skills, but then when you think about it, there was no time to impart those skills. Everything was shortcuts, hacks, open cans and dump meals and just getting by. Such an unhealthy way to raise kids or form a family.  And really unfortunate when at the same time you’re just “getting by” you have parents telling their kids that this way is the best, most superior and only way to live life. *cult life, shudders*

The snow you get in the southern US, including TN, is very different than northern snows. I've had to drive in both. In the south we end up with a frozen layer of rain or melted snow that freezes upon contact with snow on top of that. We get more ice storms than snow. Snow tires, chains, etc. aren't a thing in most southern places. We get it that people make fun of us for it, but when you have experienced it and almost died because a tractor trailer went sideways and started sliding down a hill toward you, you figure out that you would rather just stay home in it. 

Kelly Jo and Gil don't prepare their children for the real world. Carlin doesn't know her father's given name. most of the girls can't cook even simple meals, and all of them are conditioned to be helpless little creatures. Unfortunately for Katie, she's married into a family that seems even worse. Kelton, Bobby, Chad, Brandon, John, and Evan are all very encouraging to their wives. They seem to enjoy actual conversations with their wives and don't publicly belittle them.

I doubt Katie is that bad of a driver but her family certainly painted her that way. They painted Carlin, Josie, and Tori that way too while Trace was the only one to have an accident that was included as a storyline. As a person who has family members who treat me the same way on other issues, it does mess with your head and confidence. It becomes one of two things - you avoid it to avoid more ridicule or you face it head on with the hopes of proving them wrong.   

[SorenaJ]

17 hours ago, Johannah said:

I’m assuming you live in Europe? There are very few places you can live in the US and not drive, especially if you plan to have a bazillion kids. I got away with not having a car or driving much for years by living in New York, but once you leave the city there are very few public transit options. 

That is honestly so sad. Lots of people have physical or mental disabilities meaning they can't drive, plus elderly people and teens. Honestly it just seems so unfair and isolating that you are screwed without a car. 

[SassyPants]

I remember when we lived in Chicago (city of) and I noticed that so many people didn't have snow tires or 4-WD. Having come from CA, not in snow country, but within 1 hour of the Sierra Nevada mountains, and frequent travelers to ski country, everyone had either snow tires or more commonly 4 WD. Now when it snows in the mountains in CA it’s measured in feet, not inches, and snow tire, chains and 4 WD are mandatory or you can’t legally drive on the roads, so people who lived in places that routinely get snow yet do not have the needed tools to safely drive always baffled me. My husband was blown away when he lived in Cinci and when it snowed, everything shut down. What? Well, since it doesn’t snow often there, the city doesn’t have adequate tools to keep the roads safe. As an example, no way to safely operate the school busses. 

I’d think icy roads would be far harder and dangerous to drive on than deep or wetter snow on roads.

[HereticHick]

Repeating what I said above:

" I just looked and the average yearly snowfall in Rocky Top, TN is 5.6 inches; in Berlin, NJ it is 14.1 inches.  When I moved a couple of states north, I found it difficult to adjust to driving in snow. It took me years to accept the idea that people can actually drive/do things when it is snowing lightly, and not be totally freaked out about it."

Also, I grew up in rural Appalachia, and although I am comfortable driving any mountain road (including tunnels and bridges)--if you want someone to drive you through the Simplon Pass or St. Bernard Pass, the Going to the Sun Road, or the Blue Ridge Parkway, I'm your girl--but moving to a metro area, I found it very difficult to adjust to multiple turn lanes/having to quickly get across 3-4 lanes of a major boulevard to get to an exit/parallel parking/highway cloverleafs with a dozen choices/roundabouts/lots of one-way streets.

  Just telling me to obey the speed limit & not follow another car isn't enough--adjusting to the volume and complexity of non-rural driving takes time and practice.  Katie needs to get out there and do it, but I understand the fear.

[Jackie3]

At the Bates home, a new kid becomes driving age almost every year. 

It takes a lot time to teach a kid to drive properly. There are many different things to teach! It's snowing, it's raining, that guy keeps tailing you, this other guy cut you off, there's an ambulance and you are in the left lane and can't pull over, what should you say if cop pulls you over, how do know your tires need air. . . . 

We started when our kids were 15 and continued teaching for a couple of years. Of course they drove independently at 16, but there was still plenty to teach after that. By 18 I would say they were done.

There's no way the Bates could teach all that, and Katie probably got a quick lesson or two and never became really confident. She's probably never driven over a huge bridge, or on an icy road, with a calm adult telling her she'll be fine. 

Of course, you can learn to drive without lengthy guidance from an adult. I did. But it can take a long time to feel confident, particularly for some kids.

Has anyone discussed the Bates' seat belt use? Because those insta stories of Katie, Travis, Callie and Kelly in the car are really shocking. It looks like Katie (in the passenger seat) either isn't wearing a seatbelt, or is only wearing the lap belt part. Callie frequently has it pushed way off her shoulders, onto her upper arm. Kelly has the belt pushing against her neck. It's Katie I'm most concerned about. That's a good way to die in an accident.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I was surprised to learn that CT changed their seatbelt laws in October 2021 to finally require everyone in the car to wear a seatbelt.  Up til then people over 16 didn't need one in the back seat.  I remember a LOT of dangerous passenger behavior as a young adult, namely stuffing an ungodly amount of people into the cars.  What idiots we were, and VERY lucky nobody ever got hurt.

[neuroticcat]

I have driving anxiety and it sucks. Getting a panic attack while operating a car is the worst, and, yes, it snowballs into greater phobia, because then you are worried about getting panicked.

At various times I have worked on it - the only way really is to do it over and over again and increase the distance. COVID really set me back again, though, because there wasn't as much need to go places. 

If that's the case, I empathize with her. Believe me, I've tried to white-knuckle my way through it and just "get out there and drive," and that works...until you panic on the freeway or something and then it's a million steps backward.

I've finally realized there's a hormonal element (it's much worse postpartum) and a visual element (much worse if I wear glasses over contacts). Anyway, if she's at all nervous about driving, adding a family that names her incompetent is just emotional abuse. 

[Lista]

2 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I have driving anxiety and it sucks. Getting a panic attack while operating a car is the worst, and, yes, it snowballs into greater phobia, because then you are worried about getting panicked.

At various times I have worked on it - the only way really is to do it over and over again and increase the distance. COVID really set me back again, though, because there wasn't as much need to go places. 

If that's the case, I empathize with her. Believe me, I've tried to white-knuckle my way through it and just "get out there and drive," and that works...until you panic on the freeway or something and then it's a million steps backward.

I've finally realized there's a hormonal element (it's much worse postpartum) and a visual element (much worse if I wear glasses over contacts). Anyway, if she's at all nervous about driving, adding a family that names her incompetent is just emotional abuse. 

I couldn’t agree more.  I have severe panic attacks & they come on for no reason at all.  I’ll drive short distances & that’s it.  Nothing like shaking & the feeling of not being able to breathe behind the wheel. 

[TaraJade7]

Wish I knew how to post a clip into this sub! I was just watching Season 2, ep 9 Bringing up Bates.  Young Josie & Katie mention how 'all the good colors for bridesmaids' dresses will be gone by the time it gets to them'...Katie did indeed have black in her wedding, which I thought was very elegant btw!  This clip is from 2015 & watching these older clips knowing what we do now, is interesting!  I do feel so bad for Katie, though!  I just don't if she will ever adjust to life away from her family in NJ.  She is still  such a young girl with no life experience.

[JermajestyDuggar]

26 minutes ago, TaraJade7 said:

Wish I knew how to post a clip into this sub! I was just watching Season 2, ep 9 Bringing up Bates.  Young Josie & Katie mention how 'all the good colors for bridesmaids' dresses will be gone by the time it gets to them'...Katie did indeed have black in her wedding, which I thought was very elegant btw!  This clip is from 2015 & watching these older clips knowing what we do now, is interesting!  I do feel so bad for Katie, though!  I just don't if she will ever adjust to life away from her family in NJ.  She is still  such a young girl with no life experience.

Looking at Josie’s house, she doesn’t seem to even like any colors besides black white and beige.