(Possible CSA Warning) Josh & Anna 36: Waiting for the Trial

[mpheels]

7 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Actually its not even the state. It's part of the state. JB is running for state senate in the 7th district. Here is more information about the district.

And while not exact overlap, it includes a part over Arkansas that elected a Democrat woman over Jed Duggar in 2020, with an 8 point margin. Now that JB has a serious primary opponent, he’s actually going to have to work for it.

[Magenta]

2 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

what kind of country is this if a creature like Jim Bob Duggar has a good chance of attaining public office now?

Trump was elected President. 

[Bobology]

If JB/M made Jana give Jessa the music box that Jessa had stolen from Jana or something, I can't remember the details, what do you think they might have forced Jill to do for tattling on Josh's sexual abuse? I mean something more than 'forgive' him. I'm wondering if she had to endure a punishment for tattling? 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

24 minutes ago, Bobology said:

If JB/M made Jana give Jessa the music box that Jessa had stolen from Jana or something, I can't remember the details, what do you think they might have forced Jill to do for tattling on Josh's sexual abuse? I mean something more than 'forgive' him. I'm wondering if she had to endure a punishment for tattling? 

I doubt that Jill was punished for tattling. JB&M were all about having the kids rat each other out. The music box story is that Jessa was being a little brat, and because Michelle believed in loving thine enemy, she told Jana to be nice to her sister. Jana gave her the music box, and Jessa felt bad about being a brat, so she stopped annoying Jana. 

[Mama Mia]

11 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I doubt that Jill was punished for tattling. JB&M were all about having the kids rat each other out. The music box story is that Jessa was being a little brat, and because Michelle believed in loving thine enemy, she told Jana to be nice to her sister. Jana gave her the music box, and Jessa felt bad about being a brat, so she stopped annoying Jana. 

Yea, that whole event seemed like something that was a random throw off kid /parenting moment to Jessa and Michelle, but for whatever reason REALLY stuck with Jana. Jessa looked so awkward and confused when Jana broke down sobbing. Like “Dude! I was 5, I don’t even remember annoying you” and Michelle is like “ WTF, I just told you to do something nice and maybe it would switch it up and you’d stop fighting…I don know I was half asleep and it was 15 years ago?!?” It didn’t seem like it was part of their overall parenting strategy or a punishment. 

[SassyPants]

14 hours ago, mpheels said:

And while not exact overlap, it includes a part over Arkansas that elected a Democrat woman over Jed Duggar in 2020, with an 8 point margin. Now that JB has a serious primary opponent, he’s actually going to have to work for it.

For the Duggars, work is a 4 letter word.

[patsymae]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:16 PM, Bad Wolf said:

I feel for his sisters who were molested then forced to say it was no big deal. This would bring it all up again. Jill at least, has received secular counseling.

The other sisters may still believe it was no big deal. It can take a long, long time, if ever, to realize that kind of abuse done to you as a child was even abuse, much less how it affected you. And when the people around you whom you most trust are constantly gaslighting you, and your entire culture prohibits any emotion besides joy, blames females for their own sexual assaults, and puts the onus on you to change anger toward an abuser into understanding and forgiveness, the odds are pretty slim, IMHO.

Derrick is a douche, but I have to hand it to him for helping Jill out of that rabbit hole.

[patsymae]

20 hours ago, Magenta said:

Trump was elected President. 

https://tinyurl.com/4n9yw7hd

[nolongerIFBx]

I distinctly remember when Josh's abuse of his sisters came out and we talked about possible legal ramifications that it was pointed out that if they had reported Josh properly, the records would have been sealed as he was a juvenile. Because they didn't report his crime, the records were fair game. That's how they were discoverable under FOIA. It seems that not reporting may have bit them in the a$$ again as those records can now be used in this trial to establish a pattern of behavior (though maybe the feds could have unsealed them?).

I can understand wanting to protect your son. I've shared before that I know a family who has an offspring with these feelings. I know they love them desperately. But you don't protect them to the point that other children--especially your own children who should be equally loved and protected--fall victim. You have to get them real, certified help and if they are unable to control those feelings and make a move to act on them, you have to report them for their own as well as future potential victims' good. Easy to say, hard to do, but this shows how hiding it just made it worse. It truly disgusts me that it was even more advanced than they claimed, that it had gone farther then they could possibly think was just a young boy's curiosity.

Edited November 10, 2021 by nolongerIFBx

[SorenaJ]

Can people remind me again, were records created at the time of his crimes in 2002-2003 or whenever it was. Or did they just tell their police friend, and then he went to Jesus jail. And records were only created when it became public due to a letter being leaked or something? Or how were the records created, without JB and M reporting the crime? 

[Natalie22]

6 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Can people remind me again, were records created at the time of his crimes in 2002-2003 or whenever it was. Or did they just tell their police friend, and then he went to Jesus jail. And records were only created when it became public due to a letter being leaked or something? Or how were the records created, without JB and M reporting the crime? 

Someone may correct me, but at the time of his crimes no record was created.  They just told their friend who was a cop and later convicted criminal (due to child pornography), who has since said they only told him that it was a one-time incident, over-the-clothes, etc.  

The records were created when someone contacted Oprah who was supposed to have the family on her show telling her about the incidents.  This was after they'd had a few TLC specials.  Oprah's people contacted the authorities.  The only reason that Josh wasn't charged or formally investigated was because they technically contacted law enforcement by telling their policy friend which started the clock on the statute of limitations which had passed by the time Oprah was told.  Because law enforcement had the information since 2003 even though it was through a formal complaint, it was too late.  

There was some investigation just to get a since of what had happened, when it happened, and if it was still ongoing.  I believe that's when the records were created.

[EmCatlyn]

3 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

Someone may correct me, but at the time of his crimes no record was created.  They just told their friend who was a cop and later convicted criminal (due to child pornography), who has since said they only told him that it was a one-time incident, over-the-clothes, etc.  

The records were created when someone contacted Oprah who was supposed to have the family on her show telling her about the incidents.  This was after they'd had a few TLC specials.  Oprah's people contacted the authorities.  The only reason that Josh wasn't charged or formally investigated was because they technically contacted law enforcement by telling their policy friend which started the clock on the statute of limitations which had passed by the time Oprah was told.  Because law enforcement had the information since 2003 even though it was through a formal complaint, it was too late.  

There was some investigation just to get a since of what had happened, when it happened, and if it was still ongoing.  I believe that's when the records were created.

That is what I remember also.

Amazingly, because of the statute of limitations, they managed to continue hiding the abuse until Michelle’s anti-GLBT robo-calls got some people who knew the story angry enough that they told the media (Radar Online?) who then got hold of the record of the investigation.

In all this the hypocrisy and irony are striking.

[DottyC]

11 hours ago, patsymae said:

It can take a long, long time, if ever, to realize that kind of abuse done to you as a child was even abuse, much less how it affected you.

This ^ absolutely 100% this ^

It is only during the last year that this 61 year old thought back to that little 4 year old girl and realised that everything was not okay no matter what your mum told you.

[Gobsmacked]

I’m a 1960 baby who can remember boys in my primary classes being hit across the palms of the hand with a springy wooden ruler by Mrs Allen.  Mrs Atkinson was a lovely teacher normally but could deliver a stinging slap across the back of the knees. At High School Mrs Sanderson (taught french) could aim a blackboard rubber at the back row of the class with 100% accuracy. We never saw her miss the target once. 

[BensAllergies]

The investigation was in December 2006, when Josh was 18 and all others were still minors. Family members were interviewed as soon as they returned back from Chicago to be on the Oprah show.

The statute of limitations was 3 years, and the interviews revealed that the sexual assaults ended around March 2003.

Edited November 11, 2021 by BensAllergies

[bal maiden]

Whenever I think about the fact that the cop they had speak to Josh was later convicted of child porn offenses, my mind goes to dark places of what that cop’s relationship with Josh could have been. Could he have groomed Josh in some way? Could he have taught Josh about CSAM? Could he have realized that this family didn’t protect their young girls properly, leading to… what? This is all, of course, pretty fucked up speculation. But it just makes me realize what a nasty tangle this all is. The cop spoke to Josh, and Josh never did anything perverted and predatory again, until downloading CSAM in 2018? Hmmmmm. 

[katertater]

This is me voting for Oprah to get the first interview with whichever one of the kids feels safe and brave enough to speak about their story first! 

[feministxtian]

8 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

The statute of limitations was 3 years, and the interviews revealed that the sexual assaults ended around March 2003.

all those who believe this say "aye". Personally, I don't think he ever stopped. 

[Tatar-tot]

9 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

The investigation was in December 2006, when Josh was 18 and all others were still minors. Family members were interviewed as soon as they returned back from Chicago to be on the Oprah show.

The statute of limitations was 3 years, and the interviews revealed that the sexual assaults ended around March 2003.

Convenient…..3 year statute…..he never reoffended?????

[AussieKrissy]

13 hours ago, DottyC said:

This ^ absolutely 100% this ^

It is only during the last year that this 61 year old thought back to that little 4 year old girl and realised that everything was not okay no matter what your mum told you.

oh babes... big healing loving hugs to you now and to four year old you from a Mum of a five year old who has a heart breaking for you. Onwards and upwards on your healing journey. xoxoxo

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

all those who believe this say "aye". Personally, I don't think he ever stopped. 

Let’s just say that he probably redirected his energy elsewhere for a time.

My take on Josh is that what turns him on is the “forbidden” and “wrong.”  I do not know if he is a “pederast” by preference or if “pederastic acts” are just part of a range of forbidden sexual things that excite him.

Jill, Jessa and the babysitter were not pre-pubescent.  They were within his age-group.  The whole Ashley Madison thing suggests that his proclivities are not exclusively focused on the pre-pubescent. (And he has been active sexually with Anna at least 7 times.)  Therefore, it is possible that he stopped molesting his sisters after the 2003-04 events.   He may have found other forms of gratification, and eventually he had Anna to serve him sexually.

I don’t mean to defend Josh in any way.  I think he is a monster.  I am just suggesting that because he is clearly has other sexual interests, there may be periods in his life when he has kept his hands off kids, especially since he was probably being watched.  The girls may have “forgiven,” but they clearly never “trusted.”  JB would have been quick to punish (even as he hushed things up) any “slips.”

The minors in the family (his own kids and I think his younger siblings) were questioned before he was allowed to get released into the Reber’s custody.  If there had been any account comparable to the stories his two younger sisters told, I suspect he would be facing charges on those.

Josh seems to be a coward and a sneak.  He may have redirected his inappropriate lust to watching videos instead of actually touching people who might tell on him.  At least, we can hope so, for the sake of his kids and the younger Duggar girls.

 

[JustEnough]

2 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Let’s just say that he probably redirected his energy elsewhere for a time.

My take on Josh is that what turns him on is the “forbidden” and “wrong.”  I do not know if he is a “pederast” by preference or if “pederastic acts” are just part of a range of forbidden sexual things that excite him.

Jill, Jessa and the babysitter were not pre-pubescent.  They were within his age-group.  The whole Ashley Madison thing suggests that his proclivities are not exclusively focused on the pre-pubescent. (And he has been active sexually with Anna at least 7 times.)  Therefore, it is possible that he stopped molesting his sisters after the 2003-04 events.   He may have found other forms of gratification, and eventually he had Anna to serve him sexually.

I don’t mean to defend Josh in any way.  I think he is a monster.  I am just suggesting that because he is clearly has other sexual interests, there may be periods in his life when he has kept his hands off kids, especially since he was probably being watched.  The girls may have “forgiven,” but they clearly never “trusted.”  JB would have been quick to punish (even as he hushed things up) any “slips.”

The minors in the family (his own kids and I think his younger siblings) were questioned before he was allowed to get released into the Reber’s custody.  If there had been any account comparable to the stories his two younger sisters told, I suspect he would be facing charges on those.

Josh seems to be a coward and a sneak.  He may have redirected his inappropriate lust to watching videos instead of actually touching people who might tell on him.  At least, we can hope so, for the sake of his kids and the younger Duggar girls.

 

Do we know this for sure? It’s been talked about as something we hoped for, and certainly should be recommended but I seriously doubt Anna or Michelle are bringing their minor children in unless they are forced to. Were they? (or realistically just Anna, as it’s been a long time since Josh has lived with his minor siblings and even if he was ever left alone with them, Michelle and JB would never admit it)

[EmCatlyn]

47 minutes ago, JustEnough said:

Do we know this for sure? It’s been talked about as something we hoped for, and certainly should be recommended but I seriously doubt Anna or Michelle are bringing their minor children in unless they are forced to. Were they? (or realistically just Anna, as it’s been a long time since Josh has lived with his minor siblings and even if he was ever left alone with them, Michelle and JB would never admit it)

I think you refer to the part of my msg where I state that the minors in the family were interviewed.  I had understood that the M kids were interviewed.  I am not sure about the minor siblings, but given the previous history, I would think CPS would interview all the minors. (The TTH and the Warehouse are pretty close and contact is possible regardless of what JB and M say.)

They could have sent someone to the house to interview, if Michelle and/or Anna wouldn’t take the kids in.  However, you are right.  The family probably would have done what they could to obstruct.

 

To be sure, even if the kids were interviewed, the interviews could have been superficial and/or the kids could have been coached.  I don’t rule out that Josh has molested his kids or more of his younger sisters than we know about. (Heck, I don’t rule out that JB has behaved inappropriately to his daughters.)  I am just not automatically assuming that he continued molesting within the family after the 2003 incidents.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

When Josh "started" at 14, Jill would have been about 11 and Jessa 9 - 10.  We've been led to believe they were the first victims, and tender-hearted Josh immediately confessed to his light touching. The court here uses an age cut-off of under 12 relative to his alleged crimes.  Of course, there was a much bigger age difference with the younger girls, and he was apparently much bolder with them.   

But I personally don't believe a word the Duggars say about what Josh did and didn't do or how far he did or didn't go, and the police report was completed much later. Whether his proclivity started because he was a "curious boy" who went too far and enjoyed the thrill of it all, or because he's always been attracted to young children, like the chicken and the egg, we'll never know.

I hadn't heard that his own children - or any other children - were actually interviewed.  Only that the Duggars were fighting a investigation.  Hopefully any child within a 10 mile radius of Josh has been spoken with.  Everyone should be safe now, and while he's in prison, but he will get out and he'll likely be out when his youngest daughters are within the age range of his known victims.  Anna needs to be shaken awake - or slapped in the face - before this has a chance of happening.  

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Whether his proclivity started because he was a "curious boy" who went too far and enjoyed the thrill of it all, or because he's always been attracted to young children, like the chicken and the egg, we'll never know.

Curiosity my ass. He went from messing with Jill and Jessa to messing with his much younger sisters. Jesus jail didn't do a damn thing for him either time. He should have been placed in a residential treatment facility and I don't mean Jesus jail. 

JB gives me the major creeps, like pervert stalker creeps. There's a lot of skeletons in that closet....