(Possible CSA Warning) Josh & Anna 36: Waiting for the Trial

[Idlewild]

American law experts- if a defendant pleads guilty in the US, is the sentence always pre agreed? So he’d know exactly what prison time he’d be facing if he pleaded?

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

15 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

American law experts- if a defendant pleads guilty in the US, is the sentence always pre agreed? So he’d know exactly what prison time he’d be facing if he pleaded?

I'm not an American law expert, but I can answer the question to an extent. This is a federal case and there are federal sentencing guidelines here that give judges a framework, although they aren't required to follow them.  In reading about Duggar's case, I've learned that many federal judges find the sentencing guidelines for CP possession/download too harsh. Sometimes they are heavier than actual sexual assault cases which doesn't make much sense.

There is a point system that is supposed to be used, and not all judges are more lenient when it comes to sentencing below guidelines.  Presumably Josh's federal attorney is familiar with how this judge rules in similar cases (this isn't a complicated cases so there are probably many with the same basic fact pattern) and can give him a good idea what he's facing if he's found guilty.   

[Bluebirdbluebell]

21 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

American law experts- if a defendant pleads guilty in the US, is the sentence always pre agreed? So he’d know exactly what prison time he’d be facing if he pleaded?

Not an expert, but my understanding is...

Each plea deal includes a set number of time in the deal. It is negotiated and agreed upon during deal making process. So by the time, he officially accepts and submits the plea deal to the court; he would know exactly how many years are in that deal. 

Sometimes prosecutors offer different deals at different times like pre-trial versus during the trial. The different deals might have a different time lengths attached to them, but he would or should know what the current deal is offering.

[SassyPants]

Now that we know that Josh’s previous transgressions with the youngest girls May be admitted to this case, I have a couple of questions. I will preface this by saying that I know next to nothing about CSA. 
Is the only reason why Josh was arrested is because of the uncover investigation that took place in 2019? And did the investigation only find one evidence of one access from the car lot’s IP address? Also, is it possible that this IP address or others associated with Josh were accessing these sites on a regular basis, but outside the window of the investigation? Lastly, in terms of perpetrators of CSA, how likely would it be that a person with Josh’s history wouldn’t be regularly trolling these sites? There were about 15 years between the 2 documented abuse cases, what are the odds that Josh did not partake in such activities during that time?

Now I need to go shower. I feel grimy even asking these questions.

One last thing. In the winter of 2014-2015, while they were still in DC and before the previous molestation charges were revealed, Josh and Anna bought a home in AR. Quickly after those charges were revealed, the home’s deed was transferred from Jos and Anna to either a trust or LLC. Clearly JB was protecting assets. Further, since that time (2015), JB has provided several of his married kids with homes. He even offered Lauren and Josiah that huge, albeit odd, house. How come he hasn’t offer Josh’s large and growing family a house off the TTH property? I think JB has been well aware of Josh’s indiscretions and potential liabilities-

 

[Cheetah]

For those of you who don't follow the Rodrigues threads, apparently the Keller family's church in Interlaken, FL announced today that it was David's last Sunday there - he's moving to Arkansas to get married (to Hannah Reber).  And Nathan and Nurie are going to the wedding and then to Thanksgiving with her family in Ohio, so presumably the wedding will be in the next couple of weeks.  There was a wedding registry that had the date of the wedding as Dec. 11 but it looks to be sooner than that.  Makes more sense to do it before the trial starts.

[Jess]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

American law experts- if a defendant pleads guilty in the US, is the sentence always pre agreed? So he’d know exactly what prison time he’d be facing if he pleaded?

Usually, but not always. People can plead guilty without a deal if they want. The judge doesn’t have to accept it if they think there is something wrong with the deal. Most of the time though everything has been worked out in advance and the judge basically just rubber stamps the deal. 

[Caroline]

35 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

For those of you who don't follow the Rodrigues threads, apparently the Keller family's church in Interlaken, FL announced today that it was David's last Sunday there - he's moving to Arkansas to get married (to Hannah Reber).  And Nathan and Nurie are going to the wedding and then to Thanksgiving with her family in Ohio, so presumably the wedding will be in the next couple of weeks.  There was a wedding registry that had the date of the wedding as Dec. 11 but it looks to be sooner than that.  Makes more sense to do it before the trial starts.

Their Target registry says that their wedding is on November 19.  Just Google their two names.  It's the first hit.

 

[BensAllergies]

2 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Right, but they go on to specify acts, and ages, that don’t correlate with Jill and Jessa’s descriptions. And use those acts as the proof of prior interest in the particular CSA materials that were downloaded.

It sickens me to think too much about the parallels here. The bond hearing judge made them when she ruled that he can't be around children and only his own with Anna present (since the threshold to take away parenting visitation rights is high). I forget exactly what the transcript said but she referred to the ages of his sister victims and the ages of the CSAM victims in light of his children all being 12 and under.

Spoiler

The youngest sister we know of was 5 at the time and he was 14-15. Then I think the youngest age from the CSAM was 18 months. It is truly disturbing to know that whenever Josh is caught, he escalates the behavior and tries harder to hide it. Whether he is found guilty or not, and whether he has victimized others or not since his "youthful indiscretions," I hope that his siblings/their spouses realize that young children - especially those who can't speak for themselves - should never, ever be left alone with him or be anywhere in his vicinity.

 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

57 minutes ago, BensAllergies said:

 

  Hide contents

The youngest sister we know of was 5 at the time and he was 14-15. Then I think the youngest age from the CSAM was 18 months. It is truly disturbing to know that whenever Josh is caught, he escalates the behavior and tries harder to hide it. Whether he is found guilty or not, and whether he has victimized others or not since his "youthful indiscretions," I hope that his siblings/their spouses realize that young children - especially those who can't speak for themselves - should never, ever be left alone with him or be anywhere in his vicinity.

 

I haven't followed the family very closely in recent years, but am I correct in saying that only Jessa is currently pushing her kids onto social media?  I'd like to think that her siblings who don't/no longer feature their kids on any platforms fully understand what they are dealing with here.  Hopefully Jessa gets it too.  I'm a little more concerned about his own daughters, a couple of whom will still be young when he gets out of prison.  I suppose it's too much to hope Anna gets a clue at some point?

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I haven't followed the family very closely in recent years, but am I correct in saying that only Jessa is currently pushing her kids onto social media?  I'd like to think that her siblings who don't/no longer feature their kids on any platforms fully understand what they are dealing with here.  Hopefully Jessa gets it too.  I'm a little more concerned about his own daughters, a couple of whom will still be young when he gets out of prison.  I suppose it's too much to hope Anna gets a clue at some point?

No, most of her siblings still feature their kids to a large extent. Jinger and Jeremy don't show the faces, but they do show pictures of their kids. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

4 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

No, most of her siblings still feature their kids to a large extent. Jinger and Jeremy don't show the faces, but they do show pictures of their kids. 

Sorry to quibble, but only eight of them even have kids. Current famewhore standings:

Jessa - Lots of videos and photos 

Jill and Joy - YouTube channels, but don’t post as much as Jessa 

JD and Joe - occasional family photos

Jinger - shows kids, hides faces

Josh (actually Anna) - likely permanent internet timeout 

Josiah - deleted all photos 

[Satan'sFortress]

I wonder again--would JB&M have reacted differently if, instead of their son, it had been a complete stranger who assaulted their 5-year old?

[Jackie3]

It's a good point. They think so many people are lurking dangerously after their kids. Public schools, trans men and women (remember Michelle's robocall?), gay people, people with green hair. . . .the list goes on.  Yet the real danger was in their own home, with a son raised with the most "godly" beliefs they could beat into him.

[Giraffe]

2 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I wonder again--would JB&M have reacted differently if, instead of their son, it had been a complete stranger who assaulted their 5-year old?

Absolutely! They'd be out for blood! (Sadly I don't think that's true. My guess is they'd still have handled it just as poorly with their own kids)

[zee_four]

3 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

It's a good point. They think so many people are lurking dangerously after their kids. Public schools, trans men and women (remember Michelle's robocall?), gay people, people with green hair. . . .the list goes on.  Yet the real danger was in their own home, with a son raised with the most "godly" beliefs they could beat into him.

It'd be great to do a satire of the robo-call warning about the dangers of fundamentalism IMO.

[RosyDaisy]

44 minutes ago, zee_four said:

It'd be great to do a satire of the robo-call warning about the dangers of fundamentalism IMO.

This!  Somebody absolutely should do this!  Even better if the Duggars hear it!

[Iamtheway]

3 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Absolutely! They'd be out for blood! (Sadly I don't think that's true. My guess is they'd still have handled it just as poorly with their own kids)

I think that depends on who it was. If it was someone in their circle, the right kind of godly man, it would probably not be much different to how they handled it with Josh. If it was someone the considered dangerous though they’d probably be out for blood. But their daughters would still have recieved the same amount of support and therapy. None.  

[Idlewild]

How JB & M would react would depend on what was in for them. As long as they got their TV show and all the adulation and perks, they may have reported it. One thing is clear, the welfare of their children would be the last of their considerations. 

[Mela99]

How JB & M would react would depend on what was in for them. As long as they got their TV show and all the adulation and perks, they may have reported it. One thing is clear, the welfare of their children would be the last of their considerations. 

Sadly I think that is very true

[Melbelle]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:33 PM, Mela99 said:

Truth. Rotten pumpkins are useful for fertilizer !

Okay, catching up on this thread and read this at the exact moment my local news was doing a story on where to donate your pumpkins to have them be used as fertilizer at a local farm!  The universe is making it clear that I need to get mine donated today! Lol!!

[danvillebelle]

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you to everyone participating in this thread, especially updating the current legal stats and the progress of the case.

I can't stand the Duggars and rarely if ever come to this side of FJ, but I am watching this thread because I cannot wait to see that disgusting piece of shit go to jail. 

Carry on. ❤️

[Sullie06]

On 11/6/2021 at 1:16 PM, onekidanddone said:

Unless what I fear could happen is they the same things they did to Megan Kelly. 
It was just mild touching over clothes and they didn’t even know it happened. 
As if that proves he is innocent. 
 

Even if they downplay it, it would have still been a punishable offense. I have a kid on right now for touching his step-sister's breasts, over clothing, off and on for a period of 10 months without her permission. They charged him with Sex Abuse 2 and he's required to attend treatment on top of court ordered Probation. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

2 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

Even if they downplay it, it would have still been a punishable offense. I have a kid on right now for touching his step-sister's breasts, over clothing, off and on for a period of 10 months without her permission. They charged him with Sex Abuse 2 and he's required to attend treatment on top of court ordered Probation. 

And now we know that was not even the extent of the abuse. It was much worse, even if it was just isolated to the cited event. Given the Duggars' track record here, the true extent of what he did will probably never be known.   Not unless a victim decides to tell her story.

Which leads me to Jim Bob running for public office. He and Michelle completely misled - flat-out lied - about Josh's behavior in the Kelly interview. What's worse, they dragged out two of their victimized daughters to help them cover for their own terrible behavior when protecting Josh instead of all of their daughters. I know Trump has emboldened all manner of psychopaths, perverts and criminals, but what kind of country is this if a creature like Jim Bob Duggar has a good chance of attaining public office now?

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

And now we know that was not even the extent of the abuse. It was much worse, even if it was just isolated to the cited event. Given the Duggars' track record here, the true extent of what he did will probably never be known.   Not unless a victim decides to tell her story.

Which leads me to Jim Bob running for public office. He and Michelle completely misled - flat-out lied - about Josh's behavior in the Kelly interview. What's worse, they dragged out two of their victimized daughters to help them cover for their own terrible behavior when protecting Josh instead of all of their daughters. I know Trump has emboldened all manner of psychopaths, perverts and criminals, but what kind of country is this if a creature like Jim Bob Duggar has a good chance of attaining public office now?

One correction. It’s not the country, it’s the state and the people who vote in that state. If they elect JB Duggar, shame on them. I hope the stories that a good number of people who live in and around NWA, despise the Duggars is factual.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

38 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

One correction. It’s not the country, it’s the state and the people who vote in that state. If they elect JB Duggar, shame on them. I hope the stories that a good number of people who live in and around NWA, despise the Duggars is factual.

Actually its not even the state. It's part of the state. JB is running for state senate in the 7th district. Here is more information about the district.