(Possible CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 35: Embattled in Spiritual Warfare!

[Cults-r-us]

17 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Aren't births public records? In my area they are published in the newspaper. If Anna has given birth, wouldn't that info be available? Anyone in the area that can check?

But homebirths?

[JustEnough]

3 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Aren't births public records? In my area they are published in the newspaper. If Anna has given birth, wouldn't that info be available? Anyone in the area that can check?

To be honest I’m more than a little surprised to find out that births are routinely/automatically listed in the paper anywhere in this day and age. It’s definitely only something that happens if you pay for an announcement here (in Canada, with knowledge from a small city and a very large city when it came to my babies being born).

As for births being public knowledge here I don’t know of any way you’d find any information out except for general numbers/statistics from the hospital or city. Specific information on a baby’s birth would be protected information until the birth registration/certificate information becomes public information, but that doesn’t happen for enough years that most/all of the actual babies being born have lived and died. (*edit*: just looked it up and the information is released after 104 years here in Ontario) 

 

[SassyPants]

In terms of a vaccine mandate, no, I don’t believe there should be a government enforced mandate, but that does not mean I support the elimination of consequences for refusing to taking the vaccine or refusing to have your kids vaccinated. Of course this only applies to those able to safely receive the vaccine d/t the absence of a definitive medical diagnosis.

So, I support schools, employers and businesses being able to require vaccines. It’s still your choice to receive one or not, but there might be consequences that one might endure if one or their child is not vaccinated.

Pretty simple. Exert all your FREEDUMBS that you wish, but be prepared to gracefully accept all associated consequences. 

 

[Not that josh's mom]

1 hour ago, JustEnough said:

To be honest I’m more than a little surprised to find out that births are routinely/automatically listed in the paper anywhere in this day and age. It’s definitely only something that happens if you pay for an announcement here (in Canada, with knowledge from a small city and a very large city when it came to my babies being born).

As for births being public knowledge here I don’t know of any way you’d find any information out except for general numbers/statistics from the hospital or city. Specific information on a baby’s birth would be protected information until the birth registration/certificate information becomes public information, but that doesn’t happen for enough years that most/all of the actual babies being born have lived and died. (*edit*: just looked it up and the information is released after 104 years here in Ontario) 

 

Our local newspapers publish births- 3 papers. But this is a rural smalltown area. They also publish deaths, marriages, small claims, traffic violations and deed transfers. I don’t think they get permission from parents.  

[JustEnough]

5 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Our local newspapers publish births- 3 papers. But this is a rural smalltown area. They also publish deaths, marriages, small claims, traffic violations and deed transfers. I don’t think they get permission from parents.  

In order for that information to be useful I’m assuming parents names are included. That being done without permission gives me an uneasy feeling. I don’t even know exactly what I’m worried someone could do with that information but I’m certain there are good reasons someone could have to not want that published. Maybe if I was used to it it wouldn’t bother me, I just can’t seem to shake the feeling when I think about it though. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

In terms of a vaccine mandate, no, I don’t believe there should be a government enforced mandate...

...So, I support schools, employers and businesses being able to require vaccines.

I'm not clear on how Government entities requiring (mandating) employees to be vaccinated is any different than schools, employers and businesses requiring (mandating) vaccines for employees.  The Federal government IS an employer. 

[SassyPants]

26 minutes ago, Howl said:

I'm not clear on how Government entities requiring (mandating) employees to be vaccinated is any different than schools, employers and businesses requiring (mandating) vaccines for employees.  The Federal government IS an employer. 

But the US government is not everyone’s employer. For those who are employed by the IS government, and if the government requires all federal employees to be vaccinated, or no longer work for the federal government, than federal workers will need to make a decision. Ultimately people have to decide if their convictions are stronger than their basic need for certain employment.

[SorenaJ]

In England & Wales, any birth record/certificate from 1916 to 2007 is available to buy, I believe. I don't know if birth certificates are available to buy in Arkansas, I don't think so, and at least not new ones. 

[Sullie06]

Births used to be listed in our local paper here as well however, in recent years the paper has become kind of a joke. Most people get their news either online or TV so the circulation of the paper was way down and the size of the paper has been cut way down. 

The listings would look like this:

To Jane and John Doe, a son, Jack, born November 1.

[Four is Enough]

49 minutes ago, Sullie06 said:

The listings would look like this:

To Jane and John Doe, a son, Jack, born November 1.

Now, I'm old, so it's not this way any more, but when I was born, the paper entry said, under the title of "Stork Delivers" Mr. and Mrs. My Parents' Name, of Full Address, Town, have brought their new daughter, Four, born on Date, home from Name of Hospital. Mrs. Parent is the former Miss Her Maiden Name of Town." 

The paper still prints births, but it's more like the above.

I know my newspaper clipping was that long because my mother cut it out and put it in a scrapbook.

[AprilQuilt]

26 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Now, I'm old, so it's not this way any more, but when I was born, the paper entry said, under the title of "Stork Delivers" Mr. and Mrs. My Parents' Name, of Full Address, Town, have brought their new daughter, Four, born on Date, home from Name of Hospital. Mrs. Parent is the former Miss Her Maiden Name of Town." 

The paper still prints births, but it's more like the above.

I know my newspaper clipping was that long because my mother cut it out and put it in a scrapbook.

this is definitely the kind of thing you can still pay to have put in the newspaper, here in the UK. It was much more the done thing back in the day, probably quite a cheap way of getting the word out. It still happens as a weird niche status thing, it is very routine to laugh at the baby names in the Telegraph (Tory paper) eg:

"to the Hon Sir Benjamin Wailstrop KG and his wife Clemmie, a daughter WULFHILDE ARAMINTA PILAR LAGERTHA BUNNY. A sister for Jago, Typhus, Onegin, and Idonia."

[theotherelise]

Looks like people can pay to post birth announcements in the NWA Democrate Gazette. But it doesn't seem to be a popular thing to do: https://celebrations.nwaonline.com/birth/#/page/1

[Mama Mia]

13 hours ago, JustEnough said:

In order for that information to be useful I’m assuming parents names are included. That being done without permission gives me an uneasy feeling. I don’t even know exactly what I’m worried someone could do with that information but I’m certain there are good reasons someone could have to not want that published. Maybe if I was used to it it wouldn’t bother me, I just can’t seem to shake the feeling when I think about it though. 

In my town the baby names would be listed with parents names and town - , date,sex and birth weight. I used to love reading the different names. The births would be listed by hospital, or at-home if that was the case. I think they just listed them in a batch a week or two at a time. It was free, but you were given the option to not have your baby’s birth listed. 
 

I have no idea if they still do it. Just realized it’s probably been a good decade since I read the local paper in paper form! 

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

Now, I'm old, so it's not this way any more, but when I was born, the paper entry said, under the title of "Stork Delivers" Mr. and Mrs. My Parents' Name, of Full Address, Town, have brought their new daughter, Four, born on Date, home from Name of Hospital. Mrs. Parent is the former Miss Her Maiden Name of Town." 

The paper still prints births, but it's more like the above.

I know my newspaper clipping was that long because my mother cut it out and put it in a scrapbook.

I bet if there was one for me, it's in my baby book somewhere. Possibly for middle sister, also. Baby sister? Her baby book is pretty bare. I like the formality of newspaper announcements, though!

My mom's wedding album has the clippings from the papers with their wedding announcement. At least one of them had a large photo of mom, listed everyone involved in the wedding, and included a description of the dress and flowers. Along the lines of "She wore a floor-length white satin gown with a bodice overlay and long sleeves of duchess lace, accented with pearl earrings and an elbow-length veil of gathered tulle attached to a pearl headband. She carried a white bible topped with white roses and baby's breath, tied with white ribbons. The bridesmaids wore yellow satin tea-length gowns with elbow-length sleeves, and carried bouquets of yellow and white roses with baby's breath..."

It was practically an entire article about the wedding, the outfits, the decor, where they were going to live, and where they were going on their honeymoon. It must have been the very small local paper because it's not like my parents were wealthy or well known at all. One grandpa was a brick mason and the other a farmer/carpenter. Grandmas both worked in factories. My parents didn't even have a reception due to costs, just a small "cake cutting" in the church basement.

(Her bridesmaids really did wear yellow dresses. Not because mom likes yellow, but because her sister wanted to wear a yellow dress to prom or homecoming or something and this way the bridesmaid dress would do double duty.)

[catlady]

12 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I bet if there was one for me, it's in my baby book somewhere. Possibly for middle sister, also. Baby sister? Her baby book is pretty bare. I like the formality of newspaper announcements, though!

My mom's wedding album has the clippings from the papers with their wedding announcement. At least one of them had a large photo of mom, listed everyone involved in the wedding, and included a description of the dress and flowers. Along the lines of "She wore a floor-length white satin gown with a bodice overlay and long sleeves of duchess lace, accented with pearl earrings and an elbow-length veil of gathered tulle attached to a pearl headband. She carried a white bible topped with white roses and baby's breath, tied with white ribbons. The bridesmaids wore yellow satin tea-length gowns with elbow-length sleeves, and carried bouquets of yellow and white roses with baby's breath..."

It was practically an entire article about the wedding, the outfits, the decor, where they were going to live, and where they were going on their honeymoon. It must have been the very small local paper because it's not like my parents were wealthy or well known at all. One grandpa was a brick mason and the other a farmer/carpenter. Grandmas both worked in factories. My parents didn't even have a reception due to costs, just a small "cake cutting" in the church basement.

(Her bridesmaids really did wear yellow dresses. Not because mom likes yellow, but because her sister wanted to wear a yellow dress to prom or homecoming or something and this way the bridesmaid dress would do double duty.)

my local paper no longer prints birth announcements or bankruptcies (public records); i think they stopped both about 20 years ago.  they used to do weddings--much shorter than Alisamer' sample--for free, but they switched to paid options 10-15 years back where they let you use as much space as you're willing to pay for and design your own layout and describe as much as you want.  not many people do this anymore.  they also do anniversary announcements of 50+ years ( i didn't feel old until the 50-year ones were married *after* i was born.....), but i don't know if there's a fee for those.

but back in the day, they did the detailed wedding announcements, and a cousin shared our great-grandma's recently.  Nana was married in 1922, and her three bridesmaids' dresses were each different colors--green, purple, and orange (orange was described as "flame-colored").  Regrettably, there are no color photos of the bridal party, but i would have loved to see them.

[Alisamer]

5 minutes ago, catlady said:

but back in the day, they did the detailed wedding announcements, and a cousin shared our great-grandma's recently.  Nana was married in 1922, and her three bridesmaids' dresses were each different colors--green, purple, and orange (orange was described as "flame-colored").  Regrettably, there are no color photos of the bridal party, but i would have loved to see them.

Hmm... I've been doing a little family tree making lately. I wonder if I could find announcements for my great-grandparents? That would be pretty awesome - I only knew one of them and only when I was a very small child. 

I might be able to find an announcement for one set of grandparents. I know she didn't wear a fancy dress, though, she wore a blue suit-style dress I think. My sister has it, and her wedding shoes which were lovely T-strap low heel brown pumps. I'm not sure where they got married or what it was like.

The other grandparents ran off to Rock Hill and eloped at the courthouse, without telling anyone. They were trying to be sneaky, except one of grandpa's brothers and his girlfriend had the same idea on the same day and they ran into each other at the courthouse! This was in the early-mid 40s so probably was a "hurry and get married before he's drafted or deployed" sort of thing. 

[Sullie06]

1 hour ago, catlady said:

my local paper no longer prints birth announcements or bankruptcies (public records); i think they stopped both about 20 years ago.  they used to do weddings--much shorter than Alisamer' sample--for free, but they switched to paid options 10-15 years back where they let you use as much space as you're willing to pay for and design your own layout and describe as much as you want.  not many people do this anymore.  they also do anniversary announcements of 50+ years ( i didn't feel old until the 50-year ones were married *after* i was born.....), but i don't know if there's a fee for those.

but back in the day, they did the detailed wedding announcements, and a cousin shared our great-grandma's recently.  Nana was married in 1922, and her three bridesmaids' dresses were each different colors--green, purple, and orange (orange was described as "flame-colored").  Regrettably, there are no color photos of the bridal party, but i would have loved to see them.

Our paper did the same thing with weddings. Once a month they had a section called Celebrations and it was all engagement and wedding announcements. They were all for pay so depending on how much you wanted to spend, determined the size and if there was a picture. 

I actually found my Grandparent's marriage announcement in the paper a few years ago when I was looking through old documents at my Grandmother's. It was so cool to read and very in detail like you described. 

[Howl]

Somewhere in the past I came across an item discussing a small paper in New Zealand that listed marriages, births and deaths on the same page.  It was referred to locally as the "match, hatch and dispatch" page. 

[Hane]

Yep—I’m so old that my wedding gown and bridesmaids’ dresses were described in great detail in my 1973 newspaper wedding announcement. By the end of the ‘70s, this practice ended, but engagement and wedding announcements started including pictures of the bride *and* groom, not just the bride, so some progress was made.

[AussieKrissy]

4 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Now, I'm old, so it's not this way any more, but when I was born, the paper entry said, under the title of "Stork Delivers" Mr. and Mrs. My Parents' Name, of Full Address, Town, have brought their new daughter, Four, born on Date, home from Name of Hospital. Mrs. Parent is the former Miss Her Maiden Name of Town." 

The paper still prints births, but it's more like the above.

I know my newspaper clipping was that long because my mother cut it out and put it in a scrapbook.

In Australia they only used to be listed if you rang up and paid for it to be printed. Same as funeral notices. 

[Karma]

54 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

In Australia they only used to be listed if you rang up and paid for it to be printed. Same as funeral notices. 

Except for some local papers, Eg my 15 yo niece was born in a large country  town and there’s a photo and description for each mum and baby born that week. And our local paper used to have feature bride and groom photos - chosen at random from the photos sent in. Eg my brother 25 or so years ago. In the earlier years it was common to have the long descriptions of weddings in country papers - I’ve got the description for my great grandparents wedding, which even lists who have what present!

[AussieKrissy]

5 hours ago, Karma said:

Except for some local papers, Eg my 15 yo niece was born in a large country  town and there’s a photo and description for each mum and baby born that week. And our local paper used to have feature bride and groom photos - chosen at random from the photos sent in. Eg my brother 25 or so years ago. In the earlier years it was common to have the long descriptions of weddings in country papers - I’ve got the description for my great grandparents wedding, which even lists who have what present!

Cheers, you learn something new everyday

[bird]

Wrong chat! 

Edited November 2, 2021 by bird

[Themanda Duggar]

I haven’t looked at my local paper in a few years (it was always poorly edited, and has only gotten worse), but the vital records section was how I found out that my divorce was final only 7 years ago.  The announcement was published a couple days before I got the final paperwork. The next newly divorced couple listed were friends of ours.

[Mama Mia]

5 minutes ago, Themanda Duggar said:

I haven’t looked at my local paper in a few years (it was always poorly edited, and has only gotten worse), but the vital records section was how I found out that my divorce was final only 7 years ago.  The announcement was published a couple days before I got the final paperwork. The next newly divorced couple listed were friends of ours.

Oh f* I bet that explains some of the “are you ok?” Concerned voices I’ve been getting - divorce final after years of being separated, but I bet it went in the paper, and it’s from the people who would definitely still be trolling the paper looking for dirt.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Mama Mia