Gwen Shamblin Lara 17: The Hair Apparant

[formergothardite]

1 minute ago, WeirdHarold said:

Possibly she knows that her sources already have done that.

 

She should have stated at the start that the proper authorities have been contacted. The way it is presented is that people contacted her and she is putting the info on YouTube. This is one of those situations where people shouldn’t share it unless they also make sure everyone is aware that all information has been turned over to the police. 
 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 6/5/2021 at 1:21 PM, Xan said:

ETA:  I know that some people don't believe in speaking ill of the dead.  I don't agree with that.  I've told my family to tell the truth about me when I'm gone.  I don't want anyone erasing my flaws and changing my history.

I have actually told my kids that I want my ground breaking work in nuclear physics and my simultaneous career as a super model mentioned in my eulogy. 

But none of them will, which is why I'll haunt them when I'm gone.  Hide their keys, use all their good shampoo and leave them with dregs in the bottle, leave all the lights on, open windows when they're running the AC.  Flatter me after death or live with minor annoyances for a life time, their call.

[bloopbloopdoop]

if all this about Michael is true, would the underage girl have been thrown out of the church like the rest of his mistresses?? seems horrible to ostracize someone under the age of 18 from their family for something they couldn't even legally consent to

[AmazonGrace]

One of those situations in which it's horrible either way, whether true or not.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

But none of them will, which is why I'll haunt them when I'm gone.  Hide their keys, use all their good shampoo and leave them with dregs in the bottle, leave all the lights on, open windows when they're running the AC.  Flatter me after death or live with minor annoyances for a life time, their call.

Speaking of haunting people when they are gone, MIL used to joke about haunting FIL after she was gone by saying she would haunt the golf course (he was an avid golfer) and whenever he got a hole in one, she would throw the ball back out of the hole.   So be careful or never get a hole in one ever again.  

Seriously, regarding never speaking ill of the dead, I don't think one should mercilessly trash the memory of the dead person but at the same time I don't people should always get "automatic beatification" just because they are dead either.  Honesty is OK but there's a time and place for it.  

Both my parents have now passed.   I do talk with my one sister about them and we discuss both the good things and the bad, she's the one I can talk honestly about them and without any pearl clutching from her.   Now, with my other sister, I would never go there.   She was the one most tied to our parents emotionally and will not abide anything short of praise.    With some other relatives, there's a balance in between.   

A few weeks ago, I was visiting with my aunt who is my mother's older sister.  Discussion turned to the fact that my two sisters are not speaking to each other and how my mother would have felt about it.  The honest truth is my mother knew middle sister was bullying the youngest (just one of the issues between them), even as an adult, tolerated it, and told youngest to suck it up because family.   I didn't tell my aunt details of my mother's part in things but I did tell her that while mother would not be happy, she should not be surprised at this result.   So this was a middle ground of acknowledging that things weren't perfect or even good, but at same time not indulging in painful details and post mortem trashing.   

[AmazonGrace]

I sit on the fence about this. Sometimes I think it's important to tell the truth about the deceased because some people can still hurt others from beyond the grave, and sometimes I'm like, nah, never mind, they're gone now so why drag this shit up anymore. I guess it depends...The dead won't care either way but some of those who survive would be more hurt by our words and some would be more hurt by our silence.

(I am not alleging that I'm always able to tell the difference.)

[hoipolloi]

The world is a better place without Gwen in it. 

If some -- like her grandchildren -- have good memories of her, that's great, and I hope that those memories are a blessing to them.

For the rest -- particularly all the RF members damaged by her twisted & evil cult -- I hope that they are breathing a bit easier these days & are able to give themselves and others the grace that Gwen completely lacked.

Edited June 11, 2021 by hoipolloi

[JermajestyDuggar]

I refuse to outright lie about dead people. So if I didn’t like the person, I mostly keep it to myself. I won’t say things like, “she was such a nice person.” When she was mean as hell. But if someone wants my honest opinion, I’ll give it. I have no problem talking poorly of Gwen because her horrible beliefs live on and continue to damage. 

[AmazonGrace]

If you're a cult leader you're definitely one of those who could hurt people while  dead.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I think it's fine for an individual to make a personal choice to not speak ill about someone who harmed them while dead. I just get irritated when said individual starts policing others thoughts and feelings about said abusive, deceased individual. Much like forgiveness of an abuser is an incredibly personal decision. My issue with much of evangelical Christianity is in how pressure, not just encouragement there is to forgive an abusive individual.

[nokidsmom]

33 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I refuse to outright lie about dead people. So if I didn’t like the person, I mostly keep it to myself. I won’t say things like, “she was such a nice person.” When she was mean as hell. But if someone wants my honest opinion, I’ll give it. I have no problem talking poorly of Gwen because her horrible beliefs live on and continue to damage. 

Yeah, when a person I didn't like died, I would keep my feelings to myself but if asked how I really felt, I wouldn't have lied about it.   Fortunately no one has ever asked.   One thing I will always acknowledge, though, is condolences to the family/friends if someone is standing there expecting some preferably nice response.   So I focus on the family and not the person.    Because no matter how I might feel about the person, there will be people who loved that person and are grieving, their relationship is different than mine and even if it's more complicated than that, that's not my business.

That said, I expect to be challenged in my stance as there is an elderly family member with multiple health issues including stage IV cancer who probably will not live out the year.    This family member has been, to put it charitably, has been a total a-hole to everyone, and is continuing to be one on the way out even to friends who are calling him to check on him.   Massive negativity and energy suck.  While I feel for him as anyone with his health issues at the same time, it's going to be a relief when he's gone, and I am going to have to work pretty hard not to show it.  

[Xan]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

I sit on the fence about this. Sometimes I think it's important to tell the truth about the deceased because some people can still hurt others from beyond the grave, and sometimes I'm like, nah, never mind, they're gone now so why drag this shit up anymore. I guess it depends...The dead won't care either way but some of those who survive would be more hurt by our words and some would be more hurt by our silence.

(I am not alleging that I'm always able to tell the difference.)

There's a play (and a movie) called "I Never Sang for My Father".  This line is at the beginning and the end:  "Death ends a life. But it does not end a relationship which struggles on the survivor's mind toward some resolution which it may never find."  This is one of the reasons why I think it's important to speak the truth about the deceased.  (I don't mean that we should be unnecessarily merciless.)  Most of us are still dealing with relationships with people who've already left the planet.  If we aren't honest about them, how can we ever resolve issues and get closure?  If people aren't honest about Gwen and her cult, how will they ever be able to move past the damage?  

The trouble with the death of someone with whom we have a difficult relationship is that we can never reconcile.  We don't have a chance to get things to come out right, finally.  If we whitewash them, we're stuck in a cycle of self-blame.  Additionally, we sometimes learn as much from negative examples as positive ones.  If you see someone being a giant a-hole, like @nokidsmom is talking about, we want to act differently.  If we pretend that it's okay, we learn nothing.  Honesty is best.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Xan

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Xan said:

There's a play (and a movie) called "I Never Sang for My Father".  This line is at the beginning and the end:  "Death ends a life. But it does not end a relationship which struggles on the survivor's mind toward some resolution which it may never find."  This is one of the reasons why I think it's important to speak the truth about the deceased.  (I don't mean that we should be unnecessarily merciless.)  Most of us are still dealing with relationships with people who've already left the planet.  If we aren't honest about them, how can we ever resolve issues and get closure?  If people aren't honest about Gwen and her cult, how will they ever be able to move past the damage?  

The trouble with the death of someone with whom we have a difficult relationship is that we can never reconcile.  We don't have a chance to get things to come out right, finally.  If we whitewash them, we're stuck in a cycle of self-blame.  Additionally, we sometimes learn as much from negative examples as positive ones.  If you see someone being a giant a-hole, like @nokidsmom is  talking about, we want to act differently.  If we pretend that it's okay, we learn nothing.  Honesty is best.

I love that quote and it's so true.  I noticed this in my own family where, while we all had imperfect relationships with our imperfect parents, my sister who was estranged from my dad at the time of his death had a much harder time with it than did I.  And I was the closest to him and emotionally, fuck I'm still bereft to this day.  When life is hard or I'm scared or feeling anxious about something my brain still knee-jerks into wanting my dad.  For all his faults he was the epicenter of safety, security, and love for me.  Still is.  

My sister never had that kind of relationship with our dad and she had serious problems dealing with his death.  I grieve him still, but I had nothing unsaid.  Nothing unresolved...I just wanted more time.  She had to live with things unresolved which was much harder.

My dad wasn't a demonstrative man, I don't recall him ever saying he loved any of us but I knew.  A few hours before he died he said it to my siblings.  I wasn't there yet, coming in from out of state...and my other sister said she always felt bad I didn't get to hear it.  Honestly, they all needed to hear it and I didn't so if one of us had to miss out I'm glad it was me.  My sister from whom he was estranged really needed to hear it and I'm so glad he could give that to her.  

I think the truth is important, especially in close relationships where the person who died affected who we are today.  Like I wouldn't give my kids a sunny and sanitized version of my parents because there are parts of my history they need to understand in order to know why I struggle with certain things.  When I speak of them its the truth as I experienced them, some things were great and some ….definitely not great.

Where I have no nuance is people who deliberately set out to hurt others, not those who hurt others because of their own flaws, if that makes sense.  Child molester, cult leader...I don't care at all how nice you were in some ways, or what wonderful things you did for certain people....I've got no problem calling a predator a predator living or dead.  

[nokidsmom]

23 minutes ago, Xan said:

The trouble with the death of someone with whom we have a difficult relationship is that we can never reconcile.  We don't have a chance to get things to come out right, finally.  If we whitewash them, we're stuck in a cycle of self-blame. 

Full disclosure: the relative I am talking about is my father-in-law.   I have never been close to him because he is a difficult character as a result of (to be fair) a pretty weird upbringing.  Mr. No has had a fraught relationship with him namely because they are totally different people and FIL checked out emotionally.  He has never forgiven his son for not being just like him which, thank Rufus, he is not.  Mr. No is more like his maternal grandfather, who incidentally took on doing the typical "Dad" stuff with his grandson because FIL couldn't be bothered.  On some level Grandpa was the "Dad" Mr. No wanted and FIL resented that.  I have watched for decades seeing Mr. No try to get through to his Dad to no avail.  While now he knows that's not going to happen, once FIL has passed he will have the sober realization that there are no more chances.  Right now I think for him it's still a bit abstract.

I tell Mr. No that it's ok to acknowledge both the positives, even if it wasn't a lot, but also be honest about the negatives and how it impacted his life.   Call it for exactly what it is / was.  There's no rule saying he's got to elevate Dad to sainthood. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by nokidsmom
Clarification

[MamaJunebug]

Recently had a surprise communique from a young relative after nearly 4 decades’ silence. I was delighted!  He told me that our elder relative, who raised him, had died a couple years ago.

(That relative had been unapologetically vicious to my face about my late sibling and at that point I simply ceased contact with her, some years ago.)

I responded, “She loved you so very, very much. You know she was proud of the person you became!  It’s so hard to lose someone so important to you.” My young relative went on to talk about the void left, etc. AFAIK they had no idea of the final rift between the elder and me, and they didn’t need to know.

BigMamaJB would’ve been proud of me.  Confession: I’m proud of myself. 

[apple1]

4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I have actually told my kids that I want my ground breaking work in nuclear physics and my simultaneous career as a super model mentioned in my eulogy. 

But none of them will, which is why I'll haunt them when I'm gone.  Hide their keys, use all their good shampoo and leave them with dregs in the bottle, leave all the lights on, open windows when they're running the AC.  Flatter me after death or live with minor annoyances for a life time, their call.

I always tell my daughters that when I die they better take good care of my dogs, or I will come back and haunt them. (I mostly say this tongue in cheek because they are as much dog lovers as I am and I am sure this will not be a problem).

[Bluebirdbluebell]

How old are Gwen's children?

Edited June 11, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[sixcatatty]

1 hour ago, Xan said:

There's a play (and a movie) called "I Never Sang for My Father".  This line is at the beginning and the end:  "Death ends a life. But it does not end a relationship which struggles on the survivor's mind toward some resolution which it may never find."  This is one of the reasons why I think it's important to speak the truth about the deceased.  (I don't mean that we should be unnecessarily merciless.)  Most of us are still dealing with relationships with people who've already left the planet.  If we aren't honest about them, how can we ever resolve issues and get closure?  If people aren't honest about Gwen and her cult, how will they ever be able to move past the damage?  

The trouble with the death of someone with whom we have a difficult relationship is that we can never reconcile.  We don't have a chance to get things to come out right, finally.  If we whitewash them, we're stuck in a cycle of self-blame.  Additionally, we sometimes learn as much from negative examples as positive ones.  If you see someone being a giant a-hole, like @nokidsmom is talking about, we want to act differently.  If we pretend that it's okay, we learn nothing.  Honesty is best.

I agree. I miss my dad. I don't miss the drunken bully. What I miss is seeing the grin I inherited, hearing him turn the air blue about former Speaker Tom DeLay and the conversations we had. He and I made our peace in hospital rooms in 1994. 

My mother on the other hand? I tried once to let her know how I felt. She.did.not.give.a.damn. I'm in therapy and diagnosed with C-PTSD as a result of her physical, mental, emotional and verbal abuse. She was a chameleon--most people remember her fondly. I do not and I don't miss her. I'm not going to hurt people who do remember her fondly and miss her but I am honest. I say she loved you and yes she was a good friend to you quite a bit.

[marypat57]

2 hours ago, Xan said:

Death ends a life. But it does not end a relationship which struggles on the survivor's mind toward some resolution which it may never find." 

Wow!  What a quote!  I think everyone who has lost someone can relate to it in one way or another.  
 

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

How old are Gwen's children?

My guess is late 30s close to 40.

[Dana723]

6 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I have actually told my kids that I want my ground breaking work in nuclear physics and my simultaneous career as a super model mentioned in my eulogy. 

But none of them will, which is why I'll haunt them when I'm gone.  Hide their keys, use all their good shampoo and leave them with dregs in the bottle, leave all the lights on, open windows when they're running the AC.  Flatter me after death or live with minor annoyances for a life time, their call.

My daughter is to mention that I am/was married to Harrison Ford.  It should be in my obituary as well.

[nokidsmom]

6 minutes ago, Dana723 said:

My daughter is to mention that I am/was married to Harrison Ford.  It should be in my obituary as well.

Mine is to mention I won the Nobel Peace Prize.   For keeping the peace far too many times but let's not get too caught in the pesky details.

[JDuggs]

7 hours ago, bloopbloopdoop said:

if all this about Michael is true, would the underage girl have been thrown out of the church like the rest of his mistresses??

I’m new to the Shamblin family story. Is it just speculation that Michael has had extramarital affairs or is it somewhat confirmed?

[bloopbloopdoop]

6 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Is it just speculation that Michael has had extramarital affairs or is it somewhat confirmed?

well idk if there's any hard solid evidence, but basically every ex member on here and Reddit has talked about it, so I think it's ok to assume he has

[smittykins]

14 hours ago, apple1 said:

I always tell my daughters that when I die they better take good care of my dogs, or I will come back and haunt them. (I mostly say this tongue in cheek because they are as much dog lovers as I am and I am sure this will not be a problem).

Now I’m sad that I don’t have any kids to say that I don’t light up the room with my smile, give anyone the shirt off my back, or make friends everywhere I go.