(CW: Child Sex Abuse) Josh & Anna 29: Left with Nothing but a Flip Phone Full of Shame

[Galbin]

2 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

60 minutes did a documentary with some of the victims of the CSA material that Josh downloaded. It's very traumatic. This is a lot to take in and process.

When was this aired? Is it recent?

[Gobsmacked]

7 minutes ago, CosmicStardust said:

Of course because that’s what Josh is used to. Everybody waiting on him hand and foot. The golden son.  ? everybody caters to him and enables him.

A 33 year old creep living with virtual strangers who now have to keep an eye on him 24 hours a day. Their life has already been disrupted as their daughter can no longer hold her piano lessons in their house. I listened to Emily Baker (lawyer) earlier. She thought Mrs Rebers looked uncomfortable about the whole idea of having Josh under her roof. She is possibly just obeying her husband. ( I feel sick just typing that).

Smugger will be living his best life. No parental duties, no work to get up for.  I hope the Rebers live on a few acres, need their house re-decorated etc. They can at least set gardening and decor chores for him to do. The idea of him and his evil sardonic grin and grubby sweaty body just ‘couch potato - ing’ in that house makes my blood boils. Daddy Jim bucks will be footing the bill for his board and lodging obviously, I hope he can compensate the Rebers monetarily without getting them into bother with the courts. 
The Rebers probably feel they are doing the Christian thing but how on earth can they bear to look Smugs in the face every day knowing what he has been watching????? He needs to be accommodated in a basement somewhere , let out for chores/ fresh air then shoved back down the stairs. I hope they aren’t going to actually sit at the meal table 3 times a day with him. He deserves to eat after the family, in the kitchen by himself. I personally would choke if expected to eat a meal in his company. 
Rant sort of over. 

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't think Ben is earning money on his own. I would change it to Austin and Derrick. 

I thought Ben was employed as a preacher? I also think that DD and Jill are no longer in the Duggar fold. I believe  they parted ways with the pay out. 

[luv2laugh]

13 minutes ago, Galbin said:

When was this aired? Is it recent?

TRIGGER WARNING
The video was posted on Youtube by 60 Minutes Australia in Aug 2020 and has around 900,000 views.
I'll put it in a spoiler but please understand that this is the worst of the worst (I'm crying). Whoever supports Josh should be forced to watch the documentary of what he downloaded.
 

I'm only speculating but if Josh has the tech expertise, the effort of implementing it, and selecting this specific CSA download, (in my opinion) this was not the first time. There are evil CSA criminals that won't even watch this download, I've read.

EDIT: I decided to remove the spoiler of the 60 Minutes documentary Youtube video. If you want to see it, it's on Youtube titled: Catching a monster: Australia’s worst paedophile | 60 Minutes Australia

Edited May 6, 2021 by luv2laugh

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I thought Ben was employed as a preacher? I also think that DD and Jill are no longer in the Duggar fold. I believe  they parted ways with the pay out. 

I thought it was only part time. I could be wrong though. If he is full time than add him to the list. 

[onekidanddone]

28 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

This is why I think Jim Bob will encourage Josh to not take a plea deal. If he admits guilt then who will want to listen to them give advice on parenting or how to live the most godly life ever? So much for lectures on discernment because a predator was in their home and they apparently didn’t notice

I feel anyone willing to spend money listening to JB and Jchell speak after molestation came to light are still go to continue to listen if Josh goes to jail.  Cultists gonna cult

[FunFunFundie]

1 minute ago, luv2laugh said:

TRIGGER WARNING
The video was posted on Youtube by 60 Minutes Australia in Aug 2020 and has around 900,000 views.
I'll put it in a spoiler but please understand that this is the worst of the worst and you may regret watching the documentary. Whoever supports Josh should be forced to watch the documentary of what he downloaded.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

TRIGGER WARNING: 60 minutes documentary 

 

 

The podcast "Sword and Scale" covered this guy and while I am a murderino and fascinated by true crime, I had to turn it off midway. Like, scrambling to grab my phone and hit the pause button as fast as I could because I couldn't take it.

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I thought it was only part time. I could be wrong though. If he is full time than add him to the list. 

Part time or FT, earning your own paycheck is a start to living independent of JB - 

Damn it, how does any parent encourage their offspring to get involved with the Duggars? I thought the Seewalds were idiots at the time 17 YO Ben basically stalked the Duggars.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, FunFunFundie said:

The podcast "Sword and Scale" covered this guy and while I am a murderino and fascinated by true crime, I had to turn it off midway. Like, scrambling to grab my phone and hit the pause button as fast as I could because I couldn't take it.

i read up on  him just a little but it was enough. I don't need to see anymore. 

[Sullie06]

23 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

I'm not necessarily against this philosophy, except that we don't provide adequate resources, on the outside, to rehabilitate, or become more functioning members of society. If we're going to adopt the philosophy that jail isn't the best solution, we need to address the underlying issues that moved people in that direction, in the 1st place.

Yes! So much yes! Mental Health and Substance Treatment resources are so needed. At least in my area. Trying to get someone into treatment is like a special fete, and I'm not talking about specialized treatment like sex offender treatment, that's even harder to come. As well as safe adequate housing which is another concern in many areas. 

[Gobsmacked]

3 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I feel anyone willing to spend money listening to JB and Jchell speak after molestation came to light are still go to continue to listen if Josh goes to jail.  Cultists gonna cult

I feel people are going to hear them speak not to hear their message ( what ever that may be) but to gawk at them. They will become a side show , ticket money will be paid to gawk at the humans who brought the creep into the world. Creep is only the  polite word I’m using here not what I’m really calling him in my head. 

[Galbin]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

Part time or FT, earning your own paycheck is a start to living independent of JB - 

Damn it, how does any parent encourage their offspring to get involved with the Duggars? I thought the Seewalds were idiots at the time 17 YO Ben basically stalked the Duggars.

Also, people have been known to manage on part-time incomes if they budget extremely well. Considering they don't have a mortgage payment, Ben's income goes a lot further than it would otherwise. 

[Howl]

23 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

I don't want to give them all a free pass because they are adults and absolutely responsible for their actions, but many of them are very likely still sold on JB's logic.

Yes...but. 

These women (and the girls still at home) have been taught from their first breath that THEY HAVE NO AGENCY in the patriarchal system into which they were born.  Everything is set up to keep them thinking that, including strictly limiting what they see on the internet and TV, if they even watch TV or have internet access.  They are in a carefully structured, hermetically sealed IBLP bubble.  In addition, they are educated in a system that starts with an umbrella of authority and unquestioning adherence to Gothard's beliefs. 

As I noted upthread, in the People article about Josh living with the Rebers, Mrs. Reber knows generally what Josh was charged with, but not the details. So she heard whatever her husband thought fit to tell her about the stranger coming to live in their home. 

I don't follow the Duggars, but am aware that Jill and Derrick flew the coop.  Where would Jill be if Derrick not gone to a secular law school? 

 

[ILoveJellybeans]

Oh wow, this is horrifying. There's no doubt he is guilty, and the children in the images are the same age as his own children and nieces/nephews. I dont know how anyone could look at those sick images, let alone someone who has children themselves of that age. Its bad enough that he looked at images of children the same age as his own being abused, but I hope that he had only been looking (which is bad enough) and has not continued to molest any more children since he was caught the first time.

I cant believe he even asked "oh was someone downloading child porn" when they raided the car lot and took the devices away. No innocent person would come to that conclusion, most people would assume that as its a used car lot, maybe financial related or that some cars they sold were stolen. That sounds guilty AF.

Whilst I am glad that he was not released into the custody of one of his childless adult siblings due to the screwed up family dynamics and older siblings having authority over the younger ones due to the amount of children, I dont think his current situation is very good. It is clear that Mrs Reber is not ok with this and is clearly uncomfortable (as anyone would be) about being a woman on her own for several hours a day with a sexual predator. I dont think that's very fair on her, and I dont think it should have been allowed. Although the rules were "no children" I do think it would have been better if he was not alone with women either (werent there allegations of rape against him at one point?) and was living with men only. Shame on Mr Reber for expecting his wife to be home alone with a sexual predator.

I dont agree with them allowing Anna to supervise contact between him and the kids whenever they want. I think it should have been more formal, like "he can see them for a couple of hours, twice a week, supervised by a third party in a neutral location set up for this purpose" like they do with kids in care. I dont trust that family to make appropriate decisions for the children.
Also I got a kitten last year! His name is Teddy. Here's a picture of him when I first met him (at 6 weeks old, didnt bring him home until he was 8 weeks) and one of him now at a year old.

Spoiler

 

 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It was debunked a few threads back that it's a 96% conviction rate across the board.  That includes those who plead out.  For those who force a trial there is a 16% non-guilty verdict.  Odds aren't in his favor, but they aren't as good for the prosecution.

Ah, I missed that. But my understanding is people overwhelmingly plead out? I know it's Josh, but I imagine a lot of defendants are just as smug and entitled as he is and their lawyers still talk them out of going to trial.

[bettertomarry]

Do smart watches/Apple watches count as 'internet'?

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Howl said:

Yes...but. 

These women (and the girls still at home) have been taught from their first breath that THEY HAVE NO AGENCY in the patriarchal system into which they were born.  Everything is set up to keep them thinking that, including strictly limiting what they see on the internet and TV, if they even watch TV or have internet access.  They are in a carefully structured, hermetically sealed IBLP bubble.  In addition, they are educated in a system that starts with an umbrella of authority and unquestioning adherence to Gothard's beliefs. 

As I noted upthread, in the People article about Josh living with the Rebers, Mrs. Reber knows generally what Josh was charged with, but not the details. So she heard whatever her husband thought fit to tell her about the stranger coming to live in their home. 

I don't follow the Duggars, but am aware that Jill and Derrick flew the coop.  Where would Jill be if Derrick not gone to a secular law school? 

 

Dereck has an accounting degree out of OK State. Prior to living in Central America after Izzy was born, DD was employed in the business office at Walt Mart. He’s been perfectly employable and has lived in the secular world his entire life.

[JenniferJuniper]

18 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

My reservation would actually be whether she would be in the room. 

The court agreed with Josh's lawyers.  There's no evidence his children have been hurt by him so far, so the odds of him opting to harm them now while he's being montiored by the Rebers with the requirement that Anna must be present appear to be very low.  The Rebers committed to the court that they would follow the rules and report immediately to the court if Josh violated any conditions.  They cannot go to Jim Bob or anyone else first. They'll personally face sanctions or more if they break this commitment. 

Parental rights are taken very seriously and again, regardless of our thoughts about this, Josh has not yet been convicted of everything, nor has he been charged with assault .  The only thing the court could have done was forbid Anna from letting him see the kids, but with no evidence of actual harm having happened to his kids, the court wasn't likely to go there.

[Galbin]

7 minutes ago, ILoveJellybeans said:

Although the rules were "no children" I do think it would have been better if he was not alone with women either (werent there allegations of rape against him at one point?) and was living with men only. Shame on Mr Reber for expecting his wife to be home alone with a sexual predator.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Putting my reply under a spoiler for triggering information about Josh's legal porn tastes:

Spoiler

Josh was not only accused of rape by Danica Dillon, but the feds gave evidence that he also looked at rape porn.

So, not only do I think he is the lowest of the low scumbag, I would also fear for the personal safety of any woman in his presence. 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Galbin
I messed this formatting up badly and don't know how to delete it. Sorry!

[Howl]

7 minutes ago, ILoveJellybeans said:

It is clear that Mrs Reber is not ok with this and is clearly uncomfortable (as anyone would be) about being a woman on her own for several hours a day with a sexual predator.

Yup.  As I noted upthread, I'm assuming that the Rebers are being paid to take Josh in.  But there is an extreme responsibility there -- they are his "accountability" partners.  

3 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

The Rebers committed to the court that they would follow the rules and report immediately to the court if Josh violated any conditions.  They cannot go to Jim Bob or anyone else first. They'll personally face sanctions or more if they break this commitment. 

Thanks for clarifying this. 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Howl

[Jackie3]

9 minutes ago, Howl said:

As I noted upthread, in the People article about Josh living with the Rebers, Mrs. Reber knows generally what Josh was charged with, but not the details. So she heard whatever her husband thought fit to tell her about the stranger coming to live in their home. 

 

I'm sure Mrs. Reber goes to the store and is capable of looking through a People magazine.

[AprilQuilt]

11 minutes ago, Howl said:

Yes...but. 

These women (and the girls still at home) have been taught from their first breath that THEY HAVE NO AGENCY in the patriarchal system into which they were born.  Everything is set up to keep them thinking that, including strictly limiting what they see on the internet and TV, if they even watch TV or have internet access.  They are in a carefully structured, hermetically sealed IBLP bubble.  In addition, they are educated in a system that starts with an umbrella of authority and unquestioning adherence to Gothard's beliefs. 

As I noted upthread, in the People article about Josh living with the Rebers, Mrs. Reber knows generally what Josh was charged with, but not the details. So she heard whatever her husband thought fit to tell her about the stranger coming to live in their home. 

I don't follow the Duggars, but am aware that Jill and Derrick flew the coop.  Where would Jill be if Derrick not gone to a secular law school? 

 

this is why... all the rest of my post. And all my other posts on this topic. But we have discussed extensively whether Anna can be held responsible WRT this current episode, and when precisely the kidults are to be held responsible for their opinions and behaviour in general. I have a gigantic amount of sympathy for all the Duggar kids' dysfunctional and abusive upbringing: I often think people don't acknowledge that enough about them. But I can't give them 100% a free pass, like I say, because they actually do operate in the mainstream: as much as they might think of it as ministry, they are on mainstream TV, they have social media, they meet fans from all walks of life... they are aware of the world, their role is to model why their lifestyle is a good one, and that involves being aware of your opposition.

So, their lifestyle? Not hermetically sealed. And that was JB's choice.

Incidentally, my partner was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family, but he was taught and encouraged to debate. And to enquire. And to learn. His parents felt that good evangelists are not closed-minded, their faith should never be so fragile that a bit of vigorous debate could demolish it. I guess that backfired on them perhaps because two of their kids are now atheists, but it's better than never giving your kids those tools in the first place.

Edited May 6, 2021 by AprilQuilt

[Antimony]

2 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

The court agreed with Josh's lawyers.  There's no evidence his children have been hurt by him so far, so the odds of him opting to harm them now while he's being montiored by the Rebers with the requirement that Anna must be present appear to be very low.  The Rebers committed to the court that they would follow the rules and report immediately to the court if Josh violated any conditions.  They cannot go to Jim Bob or anyone else first. They'll personally face sanctions or more if they break this commitment. 

Parental rights are taken very seriously and again, regardless of our thoughts about this, Josh has not yet been convicted of everything, nor has he been charged with assault .  The only thing the court could have done was forbid Anna from letting him see the kids, but with no evidence of actual harm having happened to his kids, the court wasn't likely to go there.

There's also the fact that even though he's a trash pedophile, being separated suddenly and entirely from their father, especially when they're too young to understand why, would be psychically damaging in-of-itself. Explaining it to them is super complicated and wrought in any case, but I can also see this viewpoint. 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 minute ago, Howl said:

Yup.  As I noted upthread, I'm assuming that the Rebers are being paid to take Josh in.  But there is an extreme responsibility there -- they are his "accountability" partners.   If he doesn't strictly follow the terms of his bail, will they in some way be held responsible? 

If they knowingly allow him to break any conditions or turn a blind, yes, they could face some form of punishment, although I'm not sure specifically what it would be. 

I do wonder how much they're being paid.  I'm trying to think how much money it would take for me to allow Josh to live in my guest room for a period of possibly many months.  I think it would involve the ability to retire immediately along with sufficient funds to purchase a small island in a tropical area. I'll pray on it.

[Alice in Fundieland]

This isn’t really adding anything new to the conversation, but several years ago I read The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, PhD and it is a compelling read. I’m not attempting to diagnose Josh as a sociopath, but a lot of what is written there seems to apply to Josh. 

One of my favorite lines from the book is, “When you teach your daughter, explicitly or by passive rejection, that she must ignore her outrage, that she must be kind and accepting to the point of not defending herself or other people, that she must not rock the boat for any reason, you are not strengthening her pro social sense; you are damaging it — and the first person she will stop protecting is herself.” 
This is exactly what the Duggars do in the name of religion.

One more quote from the book, which is also highly applicable to this situation, “Albert Einstein once said, ‘the world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.’”