(CW: Child Sex Abuse) Josh & Anna 29: Left with Nothing but a Flip Phone Full of Shame

[hoipolloi]

DO NOT SPECULATE ON THE IDENTITIES OF ANY MINOR CHILDREN OR ANY CONNECTION THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE TO THIS CASE.

THIS INCLUDES SPECULATING ABOUT ANY INTERACTIONS THAT MINOR CHILDREN MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HAD WITH CPS OR OTHER OFFICIALS.

We do not want to cut off legitimate discussion about this case but the gross & inappropriate speculations about minor children with any potential connection to this case need to stop. Knock it off.

Discussion of public information on the adults in this case -- Anna, Josh, JB & M, the hapless Rebors -- is fair game.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Destiny

[luv2laugh]

Does anyone know what time Josh is being released today? I imagine paparazzi will be camping out there.

[AuntK]

On the issue of how easy is it to "accidentally" download CP, I'm skeptical as to the downloading part, but will admit that I, a senior citizen whose exposure to pornography is nearly nonexistent, purposely clicked on a text message that appeared to be from a friend. It was not. It consisted of an image and a link. The image was SO graphic, consisting only of various pink body parts (close-up), that I initially did not know what I was looking at. Truth. Once I realized, I quickly deleted and blocked the sender. But do I think this is what happened to Josh Duggar? Hell no.

But do be careful opening mysterious texts! I needed eye bleach after that experience! Oh, and this was NOT CP, it was ADULTS!

Edited May 6, 2021 by AuntK
Explanation.

[MrsFoxx]

1 hour ago, SweetLaurel said:

I was not raised in a cult - but in a 'Do as you are told, the first time you are told' household and the punishment for it was harsh, both physcial and emotionally.  I remember my dad taking a belt to my brother who was still in diapers because he was crying in his crib.   I have told the story before but when I was in fifth grade, I was walking home from school and a stranger stopped and told me he was a friend of my dad's and get in the car, he was taking me home.  I protested a couple times but he insisted and you did not tell adults No.  I got in the car thinking I was probably going to die today, which in my brain was better than telling an adult no.     I totally understand how brainwashed these girls are and I was a widow before I finally realized life could be different for me.  I still get afraid if I hear raised voices though - it's instinctive. I have a little more empathy for the females in the cult than many do.  

 

THIS. 

OMG. I spent 17 years in this, then went to college and let me tell you, my mother's rage as I got out was like NO other. Even YEARS after I moved out they used to violate my boundaries, demand keys to my apartments, read my mail, stalk my finances....

And I was the lucky one. I was financially independent post college. 

[TN-peach]

9 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

If Josh tries to pin this on Josiah or any other family member there is a special place in hell waiting for him.

There is some speculation that Josiah may have been present at the car lot the day of the raid. From what I have read, the investigators did not name the other individuals at the car lot.  They either did not know or did not testify to those names.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by TN-peach
clarity

[NoKidsAndCounting]

JB and Michelle coaching the M children might be something like..."You know, if you tell so and so anything bad about Daddy, he will be away from us for a very long time, and it will be your fault.  God would not want you to do that."  Who the heck knows what Anna would say.  It's all mind-boggling.  I hope the investigators get cooperation from the family, but who knows.

Edited May 6, 2021 by nelliebelle1197
removed quote portion

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

4 minutes ago, MrsFoxx said:

THIS. 

OMG. I spent 17 years in this, then went to college and let me tell you, my mother's rage as I got out was like NO other. Even YEARS after I moved out they used to violate my boundaries, demand keys to my apartments, read my mail, stalk my finances....

And I was the lucky one. I was financially independent post college. 

this whole situation is not only horrific, but really highlights how little agency this cult is. The women are conditioned to "want" what their husbands tell them, and the whole borg isolates themselves from experiences like college, or even external experiences that are less "out-there".

I really do feel bad for Mrs. Reber. Her husband sounds like a typical asshole fundie man. Her son is involved with the Freedomists podcast that all the middle Duggar kids are into, Jed/Jer were just groomsmen in the son/DIL's wedding. The son & daughter seem to both be friends with the younger half of the Dugglets, if the Rebers have only been Duggar-adjacent for a few years it'd make sense that they've heard of Josh but only really interact with the younger kids. maybe the SAHD teaches piano lessons to the Lost Girls or something? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

33 minutes ago, gustava said:

JD is NOT JOSH DUGGAR.  PAY ATTENTION TO THE MODS.

This was from before I modboxed - I missed this when I edited.  Thank you.

[Cam]

4 hours ago, CoveredInBees said:

Will Josh JimBob  be paying room and board at the Rebers?

That People article really does read like Maria Reber really doesn't like this idea at all but is following her 'Headship'. 

 

Great question and probably JB is paying the Rebers a nice sum of money for Josh’s room and board and maybe a big bonus at the end if all things go smoothly. Might have been a contract signed to agree on the details. And its probably enough money for Mr. Reber to jump on the chance to make “easy” money. After all, he ain’t gonna be the one cooking and cleaning the house.

 

[Gobsmacked]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Yes...but. 

These women (and the girls still at home) have been taught from their first breath that THEY HAVE NO AGENCY in the patriarchal system into which they were born.  Everything is set up to keep them thinking that, including strictly limiting what they see on the internet and TV, if they even watch TV or have internet access.  They are in a carefully structured, hermetically sealed IBLP bubble.  In addition, they are educated in a system that starts with an umbrella of authority and unquestioning adherence to Gothard's beliefs. 

As I noted upthread, in the People article about Josh living with the Rebers, Mrs. Reber knows generally what Josh was charged with, but not the details. So she heard whatever her husband thought fit to tell her about the stranger coming to live in their home. 

I don't follow the Duggars, but am aware that Jill and Derrick flew the coop.  Where would Jill be if Derrick not gone to a secular law school? 

 

Per Emily’s ( lawyer on Facebook page) Mrs Reber does now know the full charges against Creep. Both the Rebers had to know the seriousness of the charges before agreeing to give him houseroom. The Judge demanded it. 

[seraaa]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

Pearls of wisdom from someone I used to work included never take parenting advice from someone whose children are not fully functioning contributing adults. 

It also depends on the reasons why they aren't "fully functioning" and "contributing" (and what is meant by these terms).

For example, I'm sure we'd all say that the Duggar kidults are beholden to Jim Bob in a way that is...not great. But that doesn't mean that everyone who works for a family business is equally stuck. The Duggars are a special case because they've been brought up to be dependent on the system and would have a harder time walking away.

Edited May 6, 2021 by seraaa

[RainbowSky]

1 minute ago, Gobsmacked said:

Per Emily’s ( lawyer on Facebook page) Mrs Reber does now know the full charges against Creep. Both the Rebers had to know the seriousness of the charges before agreeing to give him houseroom. The Judge demanded it. 

Yeah, but she didn't know going into it, AFTER her dipwad husband agreed for her to house Josh. 

[neuroticcat]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

It can be much easier than many people think to inadvertently encounter illegal images.  It isn't all on the dark web.   Although yes, for sure Josh went looking for it so he needs to be absolutely held to account finally.  

Aw, man! How can we not do better with this? I am a techy Luddite, but surely we can step this up right? 
 

I remember reading an interesting book (the name of which I cannot remember) discussing the sociology of internet addiction and trends in AI. One huge takeaway from it was that “the internet is not a friendly place for children.” Which is true on so many levels. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by neuroticcat
Autocorrect

[nelliebelle1197]

6 minutes ago, Cam said:

Great question and probably JB is paying the Rebers a nice sum of money for Josh’s room and board and maybe a big bonus at the end if all things go smoothly. Might have been a contract signed to agree on the details. And its probably enough money for Mr. Reber to jump on the chance to make “easy” money. After all, he ain’t gonna be the one cooking and cleaning the house.

 

You would be surprised what some religious people will do for others they think are righteous. I bet there is less remuneration than one would hope

 

[Gobsmacked]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

This! i get he can see his kids but there should have been someone else to supervise besides Anna. 

He can only see them in the Reber home with Anna and one of the Rebers present. He isn’t allowed into the warehouse. 

[seraaa]

1 hour ago, CosmicStardust said:

I hope that they do have the M kids checked out.  I really hope they are O.K.  I don’t doubt they will be manipulated big time.  SAD.

If they tried this, would the investigators be able to tell?

I hadn't given much consideration to "forensic interviewing" before all of this, but I hope that if there is somemthing to tell the Ms get the chance to share.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, seraaa said:

It also depends on the reasons why they aren't "fully functioning" and "contributing" (and what is meant by these terms).

For example, I'm sure we'd all say that the Duggar kidults are beholden to Jim Bob in a way that is...not great. But that doesn't mean that everyone who works for a family business is equally stuck.

I think it was pretty obvious she was talking about people who still operate as children being both financially dependent upon and servile to their parents.  Do you honestly think she meant anyone who works for a family business?  Or that if the reasons were some type of disability where they were not able to live independently she meant them?  

You have to apply some common sense when reading posts or everyone is going to need to put disclaimers on everything.  

[luv2laugh]

I wonder if people will still listen to JB & Michelle Duggar give parenting and homeschooling advice? I want to declare they're done now but they continue to surprise me. I can't think of a way they can spin that Josh didn't do this nor a way that they can just hope people forget this.

I think the Rebers might be doing it for free now but expect they'll receive something in return one day (maybe a house?), as a favor, from JB after all is said and done. Who knows, though.

Edited May 6, 2021 by luv2laugh

[Nutella Ace]

2 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You would be surprised what some religious people will do for others they think are righteous. I bet there is less remuneration than one would hope

 

That reddit poster yesterday in the recap of LaCount's testimony said: "No implication that he would get anything in return for housing Josh". Not sure if this means the question was actually asked and that was the answer provided or if it means that the topic of reimbursement wasn't brought up. But it sounds like there is a chance they are doing this for free...

[neuroticcat]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I had to look up the exact wording and passage but what about this...

To me this means if you impart your values to your children as you raise them you can trust them to follow them even when they are independent adults.

For example, I've "trained" (their words) my kids from infants about respect for animals.  Don't pet one without permission, don't play rough, that they deserve love, compassion, and care just like we do.  As adults they are all kind to animals.  I don't monitor who they hang out with, where they work, or who they date to make sure they aren't going to become pro-animal cruelty.  They won't.  I raised them a certain way when it comes to animals and now being kind to them is part of who they are.

Obviously it doesn't work with everything and I wasn't trying to raise stepford kids, just an example of a non-religious value to illustrate my point.

So if Gothard is so bible focused why did he leave that part out?  That if you teach them well as children they will carry that with them? 

Oh I think they do preach this really literally. It’s why there are so many rules and such control and the narcissistic boasting of how well children turn out down the road. ATI is nothing if not a check-the-box for how to do godly parenting* right. 

every discussion I’ve ever had with fundie parents in spanking/discipline/etc is based on this. You need “the rod” to do this - otherwise you are neglecting your parenting duty. And why kids are so bad these days is parents/schools/etc aren’t training them in the way they should go.

I don’t know how the Duggars will deal with this sense of perceived failure - maybe compensate by telling themselves the many other arrows have turned out well. But no doubt there’s a deep sense of shame and failure too and commitment to double down and get that redemption story in the end. 

the few fundie families I know I. Real life usually don’t have to reckon with this until some of their kids his midlife and start having kids if their own. Often that’s when disowning or not talking about the black sheep happens. 
 

Josh has created his own mess here but he will not get true parental care even now - to them, love means control.  

[TN-peach]

2 minutes ago, RainbowSky said:

Yeah, but she didn't know going into it, AFTER her dipwad husband agreed for her to house Josh. 

According to thread on Duggarssnark, the defendant's attorney invoked "the rule." "The rule" refers to having all of the witnesses leave the courtroom until they are called to testify. So the third party wife, would not have heard the investigator's testimony regarding the contents of the Defendant's computer.  During the investigator's testimony, he asked the magistrate to not read the title of the images out loud from the log.  The titles themselves apparently were pretty graphic, maybe the third party wife should be made to read at least a few of the titles of images he accessed so that she is more fully informed. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

Per Emily’s ( lawyer on Facebook page) Mrs Reber does now know the full charges against Creep. Both the Rebers had to know the seriousness of the charges before agreeing to give him houseroom. The Judge demanded it. 

If the recaps are true she said in court that she was afraid of Josh because he's male and that it was her husband's decision and she was there to support it, hearing this the judge approved it anyway so score one for the justice system validating that the patriarchy is just A-OK!  Scared woman only doing this because her husband said so?  Congratulations!  You win a child sex offender in your home for an indefinite length of time!

 

 

5 minutes ago, Nutella Ace said:

That reddit poster yesterday in the recap of LaCount's testimony said: "No implication that he would get anything in return for housing Josh". Not sure if this means the question was actually asked and that was the answer provided or if it means that the topic of reimbursement wasn't brought up. But it sounds like there is a chance they are doing this for free...

What I want to know is if they signed an NDA with JB/M.  

[AuntK]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If the recaps are true she said in court that she was afraid of Josh because he's male and that it was her husband's decision and she was there to support it, hearing this the judge approved it anyway so score one for the justice system validating that the patriarchy is just A-OK!  Scared woman only doing this because her husband said so?  Congratulations!  You win a child sex offender in your home for an indefinite length of time!

 

 

It's Arkansas, so it's actually 1950 in terms of how women are treated.

[RainbowSky]

7 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I think it was pretty obvious she was talking about people who still operate as children being both financially dependent upon and servile to their parents.  Do you honestly think she meant anyone who works for a family business?  Or that if the reasons were some type of disability where they were not able to live independently she meant them?  

You have to apply some common sense when reading posts or everyone is going to need to put disclaimers on everything.  

A *lot* of people will talk down to others who work for family businesses. Honestly, that's gross. Like people who "only" work fast food or retail, etc. That isn't good enough so they aren't contributing to society. 

9 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I wonder if people will still listen to JB & Michelle Duggar give parenting and homeschooling advice? I want to declare they're done now but they continue to surprise me. I can't think of a way they can spin that Josh didn't do this nor a way that they can just hope people forget this.

I think the Rebers might be doing it for free now but expect they'll receive something in return one day (maybe a house?), as a favor, from JB after all is said and done. 

"Out of 20 (Tyler too) they've got one trash child, and they still love him even through his trials but can't say that what's he's done is okay..."

 

[jakesykora]

11 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

According to thread on Duggarssnark, the defendant's attorney invoked "the rule." "The rule" refers to having all of the witnesses leave the courtroom until they are called to testify. So the third party wife, would not have heard the investigator's testimony regarding the contents of the Defendant's computer.  During the investigator's testimony, he asked the magistrate to not read the title of the images out loud from the log.  The titles themselves apparently were pretty graphic, maybe the third party wife should be made to read at least a few of the titles of images he accessed so that she is more fully informed. 

Now that their names/images are plastered across media around the world now, someone who actually does have more internet access may clue in this lady and her daughter...between that and possible paps near their home hoping to catch a Josh sighting could make it interesting to see if it gets to a point that the husband might actually rethink this (since clearly the wife was nowhere near fully informed about the situation)

Not that I think it's likely since this is obviously the husband who really agreed to this...but they clearly don't have much of an online presence, so they may all be in a for quite a rude awakening when they realize the magnitude of things given the publicity this - and now by extension, they - are getting.

Edited May 6, 2021 by jakesykora