To anyone who abhors college simply because it's "expensive"

[marmalade]

I'm lucky that I went back to school late in life and only spent $20/unit to get my breadth and lower-division pre-reqs done (except one, which was okay to take once I transferred). I received grants due to my grades and thanks to a rent-controlled apt., one car and my husband's job with the best medical care negotiated by his ebil UNION, I got thru undergrad with no debt. My dad passed and I used my inheritance (mid 5 figures, of which I still have the majority) for books and other school-related expenses.

I can't say the same for grad school. I'll be up to my eyeballs in it when I get my master's and credentials completed in a couple of years. Factor in the fact that I'm in the field of education in California and wish me luck in what will be a competitive job market as laid off teachers are all going back to school for post-grad degrees that weren't necessary even 10 years ago to get hired even in the worst districts.

[emmiedahl]

Thanks for the Ivy League info, that totally makes sense. I'm sorry, I just realized it was a totally random question. I've been awake too long. :) It makes me get all ADHD.

[Austin]

Despite a very decent income now, we lived on one (modest) income for 10 years while I was a SAHM, and then it took me another five year to regain my earning power (adjusted for inflation). Also, we have spent a lot of out-of-pocket money on language and speech tutoring for our learning disabled son, plus expensive independent evaluations to make sure he was getting the services he needed. So, no, we have no big college funds for our kids. We pay for what we can, and the rest comes from scholarships and loans. We expect all of our sons to graduate with debt, which we co-sign for. By the time the younger two graduate, our house will be paid off and we plan to repurpose our mortage payment money to help them make loan payments. We also pay all their interest as it accrues.

It's very difficult for a middle class family to put a couple of kids through college with no debt. Our eldest was given the largest academic scholarship that the college of his choice offered ($20K - they do not offer a "full ride"), but tuition was $45K, so we still needed to fill in $25K. After a year of this, he came home to go to our local university (a highly respected Big-10 university) because although he is okay with some debt, he didn't want quite that much.

[FakePigtails]

I never "insisted" that everyone can graduate without debt. I said that it's possible to do so, or at least without mountains of it, by working, getting scholarships, etc.

And, yes, I am one of the lucky ones. I was able to get grants and scholarships because of my grades, my health (the state likes to invest in ppl with disabilities), my independent status, and my poor financial situation. I am lucky that even though I have been without insurance, doctors and pharmaceutical companies gave me a break on appointments and medications (14 different meds a day). I was lucky that, in between surgeries and hospitalizations, and taking "incompletes" in many classes, that I was able to finish my coursework over summer/winter breaks. I am lucky, unlike dozens of friends who died before getting to college or adulthood, that I went to school, graduated, and had a fulfilling job for a number of years.

I am lucky that, when I was finally out of the clutches of my mother at 22, I was able to get my license and buy a falling-apart car to get me as far as possible from her. I am lucky that I was able to work full-time for five years, often working from the hospital, before having to retire at 30 due to my lung function falling to 42%. I am lucky that even though my body is getting weaker, my mind is still pretty sharp, and that I can use it to keep myself from going crazy.

There are ways to BETTER afford school - as I mentioned jobs, scholarships - in addition, taking part-time classes, getting credit for job experiences (internship or co-op), company tuition reimbursement, etc. There are so many options out there. Every little bit helps. That was my intent.

I did.

I just want to clarify - so you got by via taxpayer funded financial assistance and breaks on health care that got passed on to the rest of us. NOW I don't have a problem with that, because I'm a fan of people getting chances in life and don't have that strange possessive attitude toward my taxes. I just want to clarify.

So, if the above is true and you honestly didn't mean the photo to come across badly, I just want to strongly suggest you avoid the anti-99% people because they're not so down with the whole using "their" money to get through college thing.

[kb2]

I do disagree with the stance some fundies have that college is always a waste of time and money for everyone who attends and that all good offspring will stay close to home until and then after marriage, to the detriment of further education and training. The fact that some people do not graduate in piles of debt and get jobs out of their degrees is a legitimate counter to that.

However, snarkykitty, your personal story is a better example than the picture you posted. The picture suggests that everyone who whines about their financial situation simply needs to eat out less. I got the impression the author of the message would look down on you.

[Boogalou]

It's very difficult for a middle class family to put a couple of kids through college with no debt. Our eldest was given the largest academic scholarship that the college of his choice offered ($20K - they do not offer a "full ride"), but tuition was $45K, so we still needed to fill in $25K. After a year of this, he came home to go to our local university (a highly respected Big-10 university) because although he is okay with some debt, he didn't want quite that much.

Are you kidding me? I knew university was expensive in the States but this is ridiculous. You would be better off going to Canada and paying the international student tuition (about 20K). For Canadian citizens its about 7K (including student fees and things, textbooks are more). That is just crazy, I had no idea it was that expensive.

[emmiedahl]

That was probably for a private college or out of state tuition. My state college is pretty well known. Tuition is around $12K/yr for Washington state residents. Pell Grant pays for 5,500 per year if you qualify. In most states, there is a state grant that will add on more; in Washington it's another 7,500 or so, but they give money to categorically needy (like, racial minority) groups first and ran out before they got to this white girl. :)

[FireIsCatching89]

Are you kidding me? I knew university was expensive in the States but this is ridiculous. You would be better off going to Canada and paying the international student tuition (about 20K). For Canadian citizens its about 7K (including student fees and things, textbooks are more). That is just crazy, I had no idea it was that expensive.

I would expect that this is for a small, private school rather than a big university, but there are a lot of advantages to a small school that some people feel are worth the extra cost. I include myself in that category, though there are plenty of fine, big public universities (in fact, my second choice was my parents' alma mater, a well-respected Big Ten as well...or perhaps the same one!) that offer wonderful educations. We have more choice here in the US, but tuition for these different choices can be absolutely outrageous.

[Boogalou]

Oh, thank God. I almost had a heart attack at those prices.

[snarkykitty]

Maybe you saw the photo in a different way than the rest of us did. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

I did.

[lilah]

This.

Yeah I found the tumblr for the "I am the 53%" and had to ragequit the page when one bootstrapper was bragging about working three jobs to get by. The comments were praising her for this and saying this is what everyone should do. Like maybe if we had a functioning economy then no one would have to do some crazy ass juggling act with three part time jobs. I know an acquaintance who went from having a full time job with benefits to having to get three part time jobs at a lower hourly rate of pay and pay for her own health insurance. She can still keep food on the table and a roof over her head but it just isn't a very stable or mentally healthy situation

[wtfrenchtoast]

That picture was probably a really bad example to prove your point. The self-righteousness and smug tone is just too much and immediately turns most people off. She's basically saying it's the 99%'s fault that they are in their situations, when really, it's not. I see where you were coming from with posting it, but with all of the Occupy Wallstreet protesting going on, it just ruffles too many feathers.

I mean, I graduated second in my class. National merit scholar. I got the largest grant my university offers, yet my father still pays about 10-11K a year, and I have student loans on top of that. And I consider myself one of the lucky ones, because my father can pay that. Yes, he is struggling, maybe more than he tells me, but he's able to do it. However, I'm certain we're one medical emergency or other financial situation away from me dropping out of school. But still, I feel pretty lucky. I can use the money I make for work study solely for myself. It's not much, but I'm not wanting for anything.

This girl's attitude just makes me angry because she thinks everyone should go to a 'moderately priced' school and save from their teens and just not go to school if they can't afford it. That's what I'm getting from it. She doesn't take into account that every single situation is different and luck has way more to do with it than people think. And I kind of hope life kicks her in the ass soon to show her that hard work doesn't always get you where you need to be.

[pomology]

So, as somebody who has basically had everything handed to them (I mean, it's not like my parents give me yachts as presents and I don't ask for that much) I have to say that this person is completely ridiculous.

I did NOTHING to deserve my good financial place. I will graduate from college with no debt, despite my school's extraordinarily high tuition, because my parents and grandmother have paid for it. Yes, I do have a few scholarships. But they cover slightly less than 20% of my tuition. Yes, it does help that my parents are able to spend more money on my education because my brother got a full tuition scholarship for his college education, but that's just luck, too. The luck of having him as a brother and the luck that a school gave him a full tuition scholarship for (as far as we can tell) getting 1600 on his SATs. I am lucky and I do not deserve it. And this, in my opinion, is the major flaw of capitalism. Capitalism operates under the principle that if you work hard you will be well off and if you don't work hard you won't be. But that's not how reality works. Because I haven't worked hard and I get so much and people who work a millions times harder than me have so little.

Being poor is not the result of bad decisions and being rich is not the result of good decisions. Of course being poor CAN be the result of bad decisions and being rich CAN be the results of good decisions, but most of the time the decisions we make have MUCH, MUCH less power in our economic situation than forces that our outside of our control.

(Reading this thread has forced me to think about how privileged II am more than I usually do and it's making me feel guilty :oops: )

[browngrl]

my parents were poor so I had to finance my education myself

-worked from preteen on to save money for school

-had full scholarship (covered school tuition but was not enough to cover food/housing - was the biggest scholarship I could get at that time) +applied for every single other scholarship I was eligible for (got some - were mostly for small amounts of money)

-worked a part time job as an undergrad but had to limit hours so I could get the marks I needed for med school

-scholarships ended when I left the Bsc program to go to med school

-could not work part time in med school - was already working too many hours in hosp or studying

-lived as frugally as possible: ate mostly jello stolen from hospital, dressed in greens borrowed from hospital, when couldn't get jello ate peanut butter sandwiches and rice and beans every day, had a bed but no couch/tv/cable, lived in a dump(if I sat on my bed I could touch the other wall with my feet (and I am short) it was that small)

AND I still graduated with buckets of debt AND I am one of the lucky ones.

The fact that I had to work so hard does not bother me - what does bother me is the fact that corporations amass tons of debt - which is forgiven or paid for, they don't pay much tax, they don't have to treat their employees decently, their CEO's make an indecent wage while driving the company into deeper debt, they have few checks and balances and they want even fewer checks and balances. The disparity between the haves and the have nots has become too great. Something must be done.

[Rachel333]

Yeah, that picture is really obnoxious.

I've been really fortunate with college and will graduate without debt. I wouldn't say necessarily it was pure luck because I did work really hard in high school to get my scholarship (though I recognize that even things like doing well on standardized tests is a matter of privilege--not everyone can afford to take it more than once or is able to buy the practice materials, not to mention that just being good at those tests is somewhat due to luck and some people work really hard but don't necessarily do well on the tests). I know, though, that this isn't "real life" and as soon as I graduate I'm probably going to have to start getting loans and such like the rest of the country.

Pretty much any student in Arkansas can now get $5000 a year at an Arkansas university due to the recently-implemented state lottery. It's not everything, but it can cover a lot, and a lot of people can get financial aid. There's a common misconception that only really poor people can get it, but one university I applied to covered everything through financial aid, and my parents are pretty solidly middle class.

There are a few options, and I hate to see people skip out on college just because they think they can't afford it, because you can always try to get something (I'm thinking of a few homeschooled kids I know who would have really liked to go to college but were convinced they could never afford it, so never even tried), but I agree with the OWS stuff and I know it's not easy for most people to afford college. It blows my mind that in other countries, like the UK, universities are not allowed to charge over a certain amount in tuition, way less than universities here (though again, not everyone can afford that).

[Jessica]

Hard work doesn't always pay off. I worked my butt off in high school to get a 4.0 GPA. I was voted best artist in the school because I worked very, very hard on my drawing and would spend all my free time drawing, the same picture or subject over and over until it was perfect. When I got to college the only scholarship I could get was for my art and all they were offering me was $200 for one semester. I was having to pay out-of-state tuition so that really didn't help all that much. How lucky of the person in the picture in the OP to have 90% of their tuition covered at a low-cost college. Unfortunately that's not an option for everyone. Sometimes the affordable colleges don't have the program you want so it's not worth it to go there.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Hard work doesn't always pay off. I worked my butt off in high school to get a 4.0 GPA. I was voted best artist in the school because I worked very, very hard on my drawing and would spend all my free time drawing, the same picture or subject over and over until it was perfect. When I got to college the only scholarship I could get was for my art and all they were offering me was $200 for one semester. I was having to pay out-of-state tuition so that really didn't help all that much. How lucky of the person in the picture in the OP to have 90% of their tuition covered at a low-cost college. Unfortunately that's not an option for everyone. Sometimes the affordable colleges don't have the program you want so it's not worth it to go there.

Also, this. I could have gone to a state school on a full ride, not gonna lie. However, the major I'm in is unique to this university. It's a field I'm really passionate about and I feel that this school is going to give me the best advantage. So, it was either full ride and be miserable for the rest of my life doing something I hated, or suck it up and take on the debt in exchange for the opportunity to do something I really love.

[Sola]

Are you kidding me? I knew university was expensive in the States but this is ridiculous. You would be better off going to Canada and paying the international student tuition (about 20K). For Canadian citizens its about 7K (including student fees and things, textbooks are more). That is just crazy, I had no idea it was that expensive.

We're finding the same thing here in the UK too. Tuition has just gone up to £9000 ($15,000) a year over here. Then there is accommodation, basic living expenses, uni expenses etc. That's going to be at least another £5000 ($8000) even if you live frugally. You're talking a minimum $23,000 a year over here now. If you look at universities in Europe it is cheaper to get a degree in several of the Scandinavian countries than it is in the UK now. My son has set his heart on going to Cambridge and I have nightmares thinking how much that will cost presuming he gets in (he is exceptionally talented at maths and physics so he might). Whilst the tuition fees are set at £9000 a year, accommodation is horrendously expensive there. We're going to be looking at finding around £80,000 for a four year degree, which is what he wants to do. Not sure how we are going to do that - I think I had better start taking in washing!

[Kitty]

I wasn't posting a "neener neener". I

I posted a photo of something that (SOMEONE ELSE) said that you don't have to be crazy in debt to go to college. I was agreeing with it, as a message to people like the Duggars who speak so vehemently AGAINST it for the PRIMARY reason of money.

I shared my story because I wanted to say that I did that, too. I wasn't bragging. Many people questioned my going to school and working, because (due to my illness) it was a good possibility that I wasn't going to live long enough to get to high school, let alone going to and finishing college. Even though I retired in my early 30s, I am still happy that I finished school. College isn't just about getting X job and making X money.

I feel like I'm just repeating myself. But I meant no harm or judgment. I know this is only a message board, but it's hurt me that people think that I am an elitist c-nt and a**hole. I'm so not that person. It's just a big misunderstanding. Sorry.

I wasn't calling YOU an elitist cunt. I was calling the person in the picture that. Though your post could come across as a "neener neener" I didn't take it that way, but I did take the sign that way. I got the point of your post but you just made it really, really badly.

[Rosa]

The problem is, when you ARE working that hard and it's the only way you can see to make it ahead at all (we can't all drop out and work toward the revolution and bank on that coming through before we're too old to work), you HAVE TO believe it's going to work, or how would you keep going?

And then if it doesn't work, if something goes wrong and you get stuck in the low-paid job, there's this horrible emotional crisis. Lots of people get depressed, or angry at someone else (horizontal aggression) for "stealing" their job or "stealing" their place in school or whatever. Those are the folks who the We are the 99% are reaching out to - trying to aim their anger at some of the real culprits, and also eventually at something useful.

If it does work, that just reinforces the "Work hard and succeed!" worldview, and those people turn into smug bastards who are all "I got mine, fuck you" and feel fine advocating that (now that they're out of school) public university funding should be cut and (as long as it doesn't hit them) retirement age should go up and (since they have health insurance) public health insurance costs should be capped. BECAUSE NOBODY HELPED THEM, right?

I seriously have come more and more to think the libertarian/fiscally conservative-except-for-roads-and-wars attitude is a trauma response in a lot of people.

[Austin]

Are you kidding me? I knew university was expensive in the States but this is ridiculous. You would be better off going to Canada and paying the international student tuition (about 20K). For Canadian citizens its about 7K (including student fees and things, textbooks are more). That is just crazy, I had no idea it was that expensive.

It was for a small, private college. Wittenberg University, a Lutheran college in Springfield, Ohio. It is very highly rated, but not Ivy League or anything.

He can go to OSU for about $9K tuition a year as an undergrad, not counting room & board. It's 15 minutes away, so no need to live there. He can either live at home or share an apartment with friends for cheaper than room & board. He's already had the on dorm experience and is kind of BTDT about it. He will have to do his final year paying grad school tuition, as his degree is not offered as a Bachelors, only as a Masters. But he should be able to come out with little debt going forward. He has about $10K in debt from his Witt year. With grad school, he's hoping to keep it to around $30K total.

[docmom]

Capitalism operates under the principle that if you work hard you will be well off and if you don't work hard you won't be. But that's not how reality works. Because I haven't worked hard and I get so much and people who work a millions times harder than me have so little.

So, so true! I was also one of the lucky (and yes it was luck) ones whose parents gave them an absolutely free ride for college. Not having to work 3 jobs during school allowed me to obtain an academic scholarship to medical school and so the cycle continued. The reason my family was able to provide myself and my sisters with a full free ride for undergraduate is that they were able to go to university absolutely for free in Scotland back in the days when there were no tuition costs and grants were given to cover the costs of living. Without that help all the hard work and native intelligence in the world wouldn't have pulled them out of the working class backgrounds they were born into. I work hard, but I get paid well and my kids will get good educations. I don't kid myself that I could have gotten here without the substantial boost I got from my parents. I know plenty of people who I work with who work just as hard as I do but for much, much less and their chances of improving their lives is small.

[BravaAmica]

I can only report what I've heard, but a lot of it is about grade inflation and since so-and-so is smart enough to get into an Ivy, they must be smart enough/work hard enough to deserve at least a B, even if that's just showing up. This isn't the case at my school. The rankings (which, admittedly, are subjective) are based upon things like average GPAs, class ranks, time spent working on homework per week, whether or not this work is also done at the graduate level, etc. etc. And keep in mind, getting into an Ivy still can involve a lot of connections, money, old boys' clubs, etc. Not so much with these "new Ivies" that have only gotten name recognition within the past 30 years or so. They can afford to be very picky about who they select, and we are also a fairly self-selecting group. We are also your idea of traditional college students: 17-23 years old, 90% of us live on campus and do only work-study jobs, which are 5-10 hrs/wk. For us, our school is all encompassing.

Does that make sense? I don't want to seem like I'm bragging about it; some days I absolutely rue my decision to go here, but I know it's for the best and will hopefully help me handle grad school better/make me an appealing candidate for grants and scholarships.

Point is, I have a respectable, though not spectacular GPA and am considered fairly average here. Anywhere else, I'd most likely have a higher GPA, especially since I haven't got a family or anything of that sort to fight for, but here I fight for every point.

Firecatching, your school sounds a lot like St. John's College. I did my first two years there, but couldn't handle the debt load I would've graduated with had I completed the program.

[dairyfreelife]

Yeah, I don't think many people fully appreciate that. Having someone in my immediate family with cancer growing up took away any notions I might've had that my family is invincible. Let's just say that my husbands immediate and extended family have been very, *very* lucky and have no idea. I imagine many others are the same and it was a culture shock of sorts to encounter the attitude.

That said, the OP's link is still better than this brat: http://www.break.com/pictures/another-s ... st-2183522

That note was written by her father. She is just an ignorant child. She had no fucking clue what the real world is like. It costs me $90 a month just for gas and I have a car with great gas mileage. Minimum wage here is "$7.25/hr and no more than 30 hours a week for part-time work.

Her father is an asshole elitist. My father has a master's degree and works as an engineer as well. His job situation is awful right now and the company he works for is struggling. He could lose his job at any time. Only five people are left in his company and they originally had about 25 people. He is constantly looking for another job before he loses this one. He has been looking for two years non-stop and had a couple interviews, but he has not found a job. No, my father could not work at McDonald's, you moron. They would not hire him. He is WAY over-qualified to work there. How out of touch can you be, honestly? My parents have never lived above their means. If my father had to go work some crap job at fast food, he would end up in debt terribly. He is the primary breadwinner. My brother is still in high school. He has two college-aged children. My sister has her tuition covered, but she still has to buy books, pay fees, etc. My father pays for those. It cost her almost $1000 for those things alone this fall. He is helping pay for my tuition/books as well. I have to be dependent still to keep my parent's health insurance because I can't afford my medicine without it. I can't function well without my meds (for a condition I have that causes terrible pains). OP's linked note does not appreciate her own luck. I don't buy it that she is completely independent of her folks. Even if she is, she is certainly not independent of the government so why down them? That's what grants are most of the time-state and/or federal money that you don't have to pay back.

Both of the listed notes on here are just digusting.

[kayray]

That said, the OP's link is still better than this brat: http://www.break.com/pictures/another-s ... st-2183522

I missed the OP's link, but that second note just pisses me off.

I worked since I was 15 so I could buy clothes or be able to afford to go out with my friends, as our family income was so tight. I graduated high school with a GPA of around 3.9 (on a 4 pt scale). Still, there were not that many scholarships available. My mother certainly could not afford to pay my tuition at the time. She highly valued education and had gone to university herself but she became a single mom of three kids early on (and put herself back through school as her first degree was not resulting in the job she needed) and money was simply too tight back then to help out (she is doing very well nowadays though even she had to work while she was undergoing a double mastectomy, chemo & radiation breast cancer). Before my dad cheated on her, knocked up his mistress and decided to leave, she had stayed at home after having me because his job meant he was away so often. Once he left, he rarely, rarely ever paid the pitiful child support he was ordered to pay back then. My mother tried very hard to ensure we (my two siblings and I) were able to still have opportunities, but usually this meant enrolling in cheaper community center classes, asking for donations of equipment. She sewed all our own clothes, and I remember eating nothing but homemade soup that she stretched out for days and days on end with small additions, etc. My stepfather came into the picture with his own son a while later, but things were still tight.

I worked 30+ hours a week during undergrad (at a retail job, plus the military reserves), plus full time in the summers, and somehow managed to graduate without loans and a GPA of 3.82. I rode my bike or took the bus everywhere I went. I did not buy clothes, I rarely went out with my friends.

However, a B.A. does not get one too far these days. I had decent jobs, but nothing that I really enjoyed and I really wanted more of a "career", and one that ultimately would pay better, so opted to go back to law school a few years later. Again, I worked right through (which was unusual for most of my law school peers for good reason), qualified for some scholarships based on financial need, but I still ended up with $70K+ in student loans (and that is really fairly low for law school!). It was also a hell of a lot harder to get merit scholarships in law school than it was during my undergrad - there are a lot of very intelligent people who may grasp the "tricks of the trade" better. The curve can be pretty harsh - you simply cannot all be "A" students! I did well, and did manage to get some class awards, but certainly having to work affected my grades somewhat too, and probably further hindered me from most scholarships.

I have a job I really enjoy, and the pay is enough to help me pay off my loans, but until those loans are paid off, there is quite honestly very little wiggle room. I would not be able to afford to live if there was not also some income from my husband. My husband and I are in our 30's (mid-ish) and live pretty frugally - basement apartment, no vacations. We had a very budget wedding 2 years ago and we still have not had a honeymoon! Buying new clothes, even though needed for work, is rare. I see my family less than once every couple years as we cannot afford to visit them, and even then, I have to pick who to see. We are definitely living beneath our means. We simply cannot afford to even think about children right now. My husband is retired from the military/air force. He has a college and university degree. He paid for college himself, and comes from a similar single parent background as I did but was even poorer. His university was paid for when he moved from army non-commissioned to air force officer. He left the military for many reasons, and many related to what he experienced overseas. There are very few jobs here and he makes a little above minimum wage. He enjoys the job, but it does not pay well. I am the main breadwinner, and yet neither of us could afford to take time off, even with unemployment benefits for maternity/paternal leave, and never mind being able to afford daycare. Until my income is higher and could cover him staying at home with children to avoid daycare costs for first while, it is not going to happen. The loans and costs of living eat up too much. Even though I am in Canada and so we do not have to pay for medical care, a medical situation would certainly put us in a precarious position. That being said, I know we are also better off than a lot of the people I see through my line of work - and in a better position our own parents were in many years ago. We do have student loan debt, but we don't have credit card debt, we are not upside down on a mortgage, and we are in good health. Both of our jobs are stable and we are not a day's away from possibly being pink-slipped.

I am also doing better than many of my other legal friends who also did very well in school (and went to good schools), and had found great jobs, and were either laid off in 2008/2009 and either have gone to low paying doc review, or are unable to find anything at all as the jobs are simply NOT THERE. They can't even get hired at McDonald's as employers look at a JD and tell them they are overqualified. They are in dire straits as you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy either. Many grads now are not finding jobs at all. Again, I love my career, but I definitely advise others to exercise serious caution about taking out $75-$200K in loans for law school these days (and in the US, if they cannot get into one of the T14 schools). Especially if you can get into one of the Ivy's that do not even give you grades and attract the most/best employers.

Also, I also have no problem paying taxes to help others who are less fortunate. As a Canadian, I am grateful for our healthcare system that has meant those in my family who have dealt with serious illness did not have to worry about medical bills, and knowing my own health risks for cancer in a few short years, I won't either. In my experience, very, very, very few of the people I have met who need a hand are in that position as they are "lazy hippies". Most would jump at the chance to work, if it was only available, and most are out looking if they have the health to do so (a full time job in itself).