To anyone who abhors college simply because it's "expensive"

[Maggie Mae]

I'm so glad I found FJ.

I struggled so much though university. I remember the first week of being at a state university and finding out that the staff was going on strike. I had literally no cash, no car, no tv or fridge, nothing besides clothes, books, and a computer. I lived in the dorms and had the required meal plan. The food and dining staff decided to sympathy strike and I had no idea what to do. My RA told me to call my parents and ask for money to buy food. The on-campus store only sold snacks, so I don't know where I would have bought groceries IF i had a place to store them. My parents were going through bankruptcy and losing their house and had spent all of their extra cash on getting me to college. Student loan refunds (for the extra money) weren't due for a week, and I didn't qualify for one that year anyway. My work study didn't start until the first week of school, and I was panicked and had to mooch off people for a good week, plus waste time without anything to do while the teachers and the administrators worked out health care. Other students thought I was so stupid for going to school without any money. After that first week, I worked 2 -3 jobs, through sickness.

I worked hard. And it showed me exactly how much I had, coming from a middle class family. It's not about entitlements, it's about equality. It's about the fact that a waitress who makes 2.26/hour + tips works harder physically than a CFO of a billion dollar corporation, and doesn't have the advantage of a tax lawyer on retainer. It's about GE & ExxonMobil not paying any taxes, while someone who makes $60K takes home the same amount of pay as someone who makes $40. it's about the fact being born into wealth means that you get advantages and don't have to work as hard as someone who was born to a lower status. It's about education being taken away from the people who need public schooling the most. I don't understand why people don't see that/how/why the wealth inequality is bad.

[darkplumaged]

Oooh oohh oohh! *raising hand frantically*

One of my FB friends just gave that photo a big thumbs-up.

He is about 30 years old. He doesn't seem to have a job outside the small company he recently started, and his wife works for the county (if she still works; they had a baby not too long ago). But! He recently bought an $850,000 house.

How, you ask?

Well, he has a rich father.

So much for bootstrapping it.

(Edited to clarify what my FB friend so heartily approved of.)

[CanadianHippie]

This whole thing reminds me of something that happened in High School.

I went to a school in a fairly wealthy area, but not everyone attending was rich (though some where disgustingly so.)

During one of our classes we had to go for a walk around the neighbourhood, we were learning about how the gas and electric companies check our usage and one of the students who lived near by offered up her house for a real life example. When we were done, one girl complained "I wish I got to live in such a nice house! Mine is such a piece of crap." Well, at the end of the semester, which just happened to be the start of summer break, this complainer decided to invite everyone to her house for a pool party. While only one other person was willing to mention it (albeit under his breath) I am sure that he and I weren't the only ones thinking "This is a piece of crap house?" Seriously, she lived in one of the $700,000+ brand new homes built in the area, same area as the other student, and her house actually had a pool (which the other student didn't have). It's just unbelievable how disconnected people can be from the real world.

And then the girl who kept insisting that you could just pull yourself up by your bootstraps no matter what the situation just because her dad had gone from $60,000 a year to over $200,000 a year. And I asked, even that single mother of three, working two jobs and living in the worst part of the city, with no education past perhaps a high school diploma can still improve her situation. How, she can't get any job better than what she has with her education? I wanted to know. "She can go to school." I got no answer on when during the day she would be able to do that, or how she would afford it, but I got the impression she would have to fit it in between the two jobs at a time when her kids don't need her, with money she finds on the street.

[CanadianHippie]

Kelya, you're much kinder than I am, I hope her she trips over her self-righteous sign and has to worry about how she will work with a broken toe and fund the medical bills. That may be the only way she learns any compassion.

I'm hoping she gets to experience the real world as well. It's harder to appreciate what you have, if you've never been in a situation where you have had nothing.

[kb2]

Except that for those like me who can't be independent till they're 25 even though they might be living on their own without parental support, have to put their parents info down on FAFSA, and their parents make too much for me to get any aid, but they're not rich enough to pay for it.

One of my college roommates couldn't fill out FAFSA one year because her parents just didn't do their taxes that year, and she had already filled out her taxes and had listed herself as their dependent, at their request, so they could get the tax break.

[ohmeohmy]

I have to come out of lurkdom for this. And it's not really on topic, but I wanted to share.

Those of you who are women needing scholarships, look for PEO scholarships. They have quite a few and each chapter of the organization usually sponsors someone. There are scholarships for those going back to school, new students, various fields....They may not be in huge amounts, but they help defray the cost somewhat.

Anyway, back to lurking. :whistle:

[oscar]

I'm going to be a little more gentle to the original poster than I was originally inclined to be, because she sounds a lot like my husband did for a long time.

My husband's family is working class. Some of his relatives are "the working poor." Many are unable to hold a job thanks to disability or addiction. Most of his smarter and more successful relatives are small-time criminals.

My husband grew up in a house with no shower, bathtub or interior doors. His dad lived in a truck for some time. My husband would tell you that he grew up "middle class."

My husband is incredibly bright, and he decided that the only way he would have a good life was by working harder and being smarter than everyone around him. He developed a really elitist attitude as a coping mechanism. If Occupy Wall Street had been a thing then, he would have insisted he was in the 1%. He needed to believe in a meritocracy in order for the many risks he was taking to seem like good ideas.

I think there are complicated issues of class and privilege in this discussion. My husband used a myopic belief in his superiority to do achieve things that were nearly impossible. His opinions have completely changed since then. Now he'll tell you that he was luckier than a lot of people.

I absolutely don't want to minimize the achievements of snarkykitty, or the lady with the note in the photo. Putting yourself through college is no small thing, and as others have pointed out, it's only becoming more difficult. And I really don't want to minimize how very offensive the note-lady's tone is to other people who have tried just as hard as she did and have little to show for it.

I think a scary thing about the slogan "We are the 99%" is the fact that the 99% contains lots of people we disagree with, or don't identify with, and we don't want our stories and achievements to be erased or conflated with theirs. I'd like to strongly agree with Kelya's point that "When we look at others like us and go "Ha! I've done better than you, you, you and you!" and not realize that there by the grace of the universe goes us, we're in trouble."

[Bella99]

I have to come out of lurkdom for this. And it's not really on topic, but I wanted to share.

Those of you who are women needing scholarships, look for PEO scholarships. They have quite a few and each chapter of the organization usually sponsors someone. There are scholarships for those going back to school, new students, various fields....They may not be in huge amounts, but they help defray the cost somewhat.

Anyway, back to lurking. :whistle:

Thanks for the tip - I'll be investigating after I gut my way though my next exam!

[JenniferJuniper]

I'm not sure whether this is legit or not as it ain't the early '80s anymore and what is described in this post is next to impossible in most parts of this country today.

No matter, graduating from college is just the first step in the battle. I see no mention that the poster has a good job with benefits lined up.

Next year at this time s/he might be feeling a bit more 99ish.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I have to come out of lurkdom for this. And it's not really on topic, but I wanted to share.

Those of you who are women needing scholarships, look for PEO scholarships. They have quite a few and each chapter of the organization usually sponsors someone. There are scholarships for those going back to school, new students, various fields....They may not be in huge amounts, but they help defray the cost somewhat.

Anyway, back to lurking. :whistle:

I will also add to this to check out scholarships through Zonta. They are an organzation dedicated to bettering the lives of women and they fund several scholarships - I know one is in the sciences, one is for women wanting to go into public service (pretty much any kind of teaching, nursing, social work, government work would count), and women in business. Some chapters also fund one for women returning to school.

And since we have some nontraditional-age students on here, check this out. Talbots has a scholarship competition going right now - awards up to $10,000:

https://www.scholarshipamerica.org/talb ... ctions.php

[snarkykitty]

Except that for those like me who can't be independent till they're 25 even though they might be living on their own without parental support, have to put their parents info down on FAFSA, and their parents make too much for me to get any aid, but they're not rich enough to pay for it.

I'm having a really hard time getting a job due to

1. the economy

2. lack of social skills from being raised in a religious bubble (not fundy, but still a bubble.)

The joys of being middle class in America, can you tell that I'm bitter much? I get no scholarships, and I'm seriously all on loans. I know a lot of people get help, but it doesn't work for everybody. Sometimes, college is really fuckin expensive and there's not a single thing you can do about it.

I had this same problem. I had to beg my mother for her information. She did everything she could to sabotage my going to school. I had to take time off in between because of family financial issues (which drove me out on my own to begin with). I did everything in my power to do it. It took longer, thanks to my poor health. Thankfully (?) taking this time put me to the age of 22/23 so after that initial semester of needing my mom's info for FAFSA, I no longer needed it.

Yeah, except I can't find scholarships because my GPA in high school was only 3.61 AND I can't find any jobs, AND I have student loans. Oh, did I mention I'll have to drop out because I have no money left except for necessities? Yeah, my parents' income changed so I lost a ton of federal aid this year other than the loans, and the Republicans in the NC state legislature took away a huge grant.

"Bad decisions" my ass. Fucking self-righteous cow. "Oh look at me, I LIVE SO FRUGALLY and go to a MODERATELY PRICED state college!" Yeah, I live as frugally as possible as well on the money I've been saving up (ALSO since I was 17). But nooo, I'm in the situation I'm in because of "bad decisions."

Elitist CUNT.

I have no problems with those who graduate college debt-free. Good for y'all, and I mean that sincerely. But I hate it when they have to rub it in the faces of those who love college but can't stay in thanks to NOT HAVING ANY FUCKING MONEY and not having the right grades- or rather, the right INTERESTS- in high school. About 80% of the scholarships I came across were for math, science, or nursing. None of which I want as a career.

Are you referring to me? How am I an elitist? I did what I had to do to survive.

There really are a ton of scholarships, some quite odd. You really have to dig for them. Some exist because your name begins with a certain letter, your hair is a certain color, etc. Keep looking. Every little bit helps. Once I was in college, I earned merit scholarships. It was a long journey. I ended up having to go out of state to find a job, since the only one I could find was writing articles for the town newspaper at $35 a pop. Since they sent me out maybe three times a week, it was nowhere near what I needed to live on.

I'm confused, snarkykitty, is that your "I am the 1%" poster, or someone else? Whoever it is, congrats on the graduation, but thumbs down to the elitist attitude. If you went to a public subsidized university, you are an evil socialist! according to the tea party. Also, give back your earned income tax credit, you class warrior! If you want those things to be around for your kids, join the 99%.

No, it's not my poster. If you look at the photo, there is a credit to the person who posted it. I am not a student. I'm almost 40 years old. I posted it because I thought it was great that someone wasn't complaining that college is a poor financial decision, that they took the reins and did what they needed to do. That's it! And I don't know what you're talking about "Earned income tax credit". I don't have kids. My parents sent me to private school K-12, so I didn't even use public funds for my grammar/high school educations. My dad was a victim of the recession in the early 1990s after a decade of prosperity, and my mom was, well, not a help in the least. So I did what I had to do, despite being sick and no insurance, despite not having a support system. I certainly don't have an elitist attitude.

And PS, my husband still owes a ton in student loans.

So, I don't know why you are all piling on me?

[dirtyhippiegirl]

As much as my father was an emotionally and verbally abusive alcoholic non-parent...

He paid for my college education. I financed about half of it through scholarships (I test well) -- but he paid the rest.

My husband's mother did the same and he had around the same in scholarships, although his actual education cost more because his first degree was in commercial aviation.

My father has never been the best dad by any means and his mother was never the best mother. But I really can't think of any *better* gift to give your child than to be student loan debt free. But not every family can manage that. Hell, if we ever have kids, I don't think we could pay for their college educations.

I remind myself every day how lucky I am (and how lucky I am to be married to similarly lucky man) that I have no student debt. And it makes me so angry to think about my friends who are up to their eyeballs in loans and unable to pay them off because nobody wants to pay a living wage. Or, in the case of my friend who has a masters and is wanting to teach highschool -- no jobs at all.

[Trynn]

Thankfully (?) taking this time put me to the age of 22/23 so after that initial semester of needing my mom's info for FAFSA, I no longer needed it.

Except it seems they keep raising the stupid age every year...and it's not even an age, it's a year. January of some year. Because of where my birthday falls, this really screws me over and I will be 25 by the time I can get off my parents' dime.

[snarkykitty]

Never thought I'd do this, but I agree with you whole-heartedly. The OP is being highly elitist and self-serving, and generally an asshole.

HOW???? I stated that it's POSSIBLE to graduate without loans, and that I did it. What is so wrong with that?? I didn't judge anyone. I simply posted a link to a photo because I thought that the message showed that not everyone graduates in crazy debt. :(

[dirtyhippiegirl]

HOW???? I stated that it's POSSIBLE to graduate without loans, and that I did it. What is so wrong with that?? I didn't judge anyone. I simply posted a link to a photo because I thought that the message showed that not everyone graduates in crazy debt. :(

The picture was probably worse than your story. And that your possibility may not be someone's probability.

[emmiedahl]

First, with so many of us here and all over the country in dire financial straits, posting a "neener-neener, I am so much better than you!" photo without a disclaimer will get a negative reaction.

Second, it is almost impossible to graduate from college now without some debt unless you have family help or are just really lucky in the scholarship lottery. I did college without help 15 years ago and I did it without debt, as a single parent. The game has changed.

Third, "I am not one of the 99 percent." Um, yeah, the person who wrote that sign probably is. It's like saying you aren't on a battlefield because you haven't been shot yet, while bullets are whistling past your ears and you are stepping over dead bodies.

And the first time s/he gets sick without insurance or has her job outsourced, she'll get it and then feel like an asshole for ever posting that shit.

[snarkykitty]

First, with so many of us here and all over the country in dire financial straits, posting a "neener-neener, I am so much better than you!" photo without a disclaimer will get a negative reaction.

Second, it is almost impossible to graduate from college now without some debt unless you have family help or are just really lucky in the scholarship lottery. I did college without help 15 years ago and I did it without debt, as a single parent. The game has changed.

Third, "I am not one of the 99 percent." Um, yeah, the person who wrote that sign probably is. It's like saying you aren't on a battlefield because you haven't been shot yet, while bullets are whistling past your ears and you are stepping over dead bodies.

And the first time s/he gets sick without insurance or has her job outsourced, she'll get it and then feel like an asshole for ever posting that shit.

I wasn't posting a "neener neener". I

I posted a photo of something that (SOMEONE ELSE) said that you don't have to be crazy in debt to go to college. I was agreeing with it, as a message to people like the Duggars who speak so vehemently AGAINST it for the PRIMARY reason of money.

I shared my story because I wanted to say that I did that, too. I wasn't bragging. Many people questioned my going to school and working, because (due to my illness) it was a good possibility that I wasn't going to live long enough to get to high school, let alone going to and finishing college. Even though I retired in my early 30s, I am still happy that I finished school. College isn't just about getting X job and making X money.

I feel like I'm just repeating myself. But I meant no harm or judgment. I know this is only a message board, but it's hurt me that people think that I am an elitist c-nt and a**hole. I'm so not that person. It's just a big misunderstanding. Sorry.

[FireIsCatching89]

I don't know if I am the 1%. Maybe I am. I am a 21 year old college senior. My parents pay my tuition at a private liberal arts school in full every semester. I help when I can by covering personal expenses as much as possible, but I only work 7/hrs a week in the campus bookstore. My workload at school is a full-time job in and of itself (we're considered to have more work and harder grading than the Ivy League schools). Mostly my problem is my poor health, since living in the dorms makes it incredibly easy to be sick and lands me in the ER once a semester (right now I'm fighting a sinus infection that is now slowly morphing into bronchitis. My chest really hurts), due to crappy health services at my school. I have a used car that works well enough, and I know if I get in a fix with my health care bills, my parents can help me.

I am graduating debt-free in seven and a half months. I realize what an incredible gift this is. I feel like one of the luckiest girls on the planet some days. However, I studied abroad in Scotland, and after learning that undergraduate study is tuition free for Scottish citizens, I whole-heartedly wish we in the US had this system. I shouldn't feel like one of the lucky few to be getting a decent education without debt. Education is a right.

I am headed to graduate school, financed by myself and no one else, in ten months, to obtain joint degrees in public health and social work, so I can enter public service, and not make a fortune, but to use what I've been given to help others.

I'm fucking terrified about money.

Everyone else here, you get so much respect from me, and expect me to hit you up for advice in a few months regarding loans and finances...And no, I'm not really kidding here.

*cough* If bronchitis is my worst problem right now (and it is), I am a very lucky girl. Occupy Wall Street has my support.

[CanadianHippie]

I wasn't posting a "neener neener". I

I posted a photo of something that (SOMEONE ELSE) said that you don't have to be crazy in debt to go to college. I was agreeing with it, as a message to people like the Duggars who speak so vehemently AGAINST it for the PRIMARY reason of money.

I shared my story because I wanted to say that I did that, too. I wasn't bragging. Many people questioned my going to school and working, because (due to my illness) it was a good possibility that I wasn't going to live long enough to get to high school, let alone going to and finishing college. Even though I retired in my early 30s, I am still happy that I finished school. College isn't just about getting X job and making X money.

I feel like I'm just repeating myself. But I meant no harm or judgment. I know this is only a message board, but it's hurt me that people think that I am an elitist c-nt and a**hole. I'm so not that person. It's just a big misunderstanding. Sorry.

That picture stated that if you don't make "bad financial decisions you won't have any debt". That is a "neener neener" and agreeing with it makes you just like the person who made the photo. Just because you were one of the very few lucky ones doesn't mean it's possible for everyone. There are people out there, attending school and racking up debt, despite working to help cover the cost, because the majority cannot afford basic necessities like food, and housing, and books, and tuition on their income. So what if someone can afford school by not having a new car, or a new phone, living in a cheap apartment. Some of us don't even have a car, some of us don't have an apartment of our own and instead live with parents because it's just too damned expensive. Hell, my schools student union regularly holds free lunches, and has a student food back, both of which get copious amounts of business, not because the students are greedy but because they otherwise wouldn't eat, despite working and receiving some sort of funding. Hell, my friend wouldn't have had breakfast or lunch today, except that I bought her something to eat because she doesn't have money. It's bullshit to insist that you don't need debt to attend school when the vast majority of students either have debt and go to school, or have debt because they spend the rest of their lives working minimum wage jobs. I'd rather have debt and a better chance of getting out of it through a job that has possibilities than debt that I can only plan on being stuck with until death.

[emmiedahl]

Maybe you saw the photo in a different way than the rest of us did. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

About the ivy league schools and totally off topic, someone here mentioned that their school was considered more difficult than an Ivy league. But a person from UW Med School told me that ivy league schools are actually easier than state schools due to "different grading policies" and that their medical school admissions takes this into account? I was wondering. I know on premed forums that it seems like there is more generous curving at big name schools (we compare what we needed to know for certain classes) and I was wondering if anyone here has been to both and can report back?

[dirtyhippiegirl]

Maybe you saw the photo in a different way than the rest of us did. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

About the ivy league schools and totally off topic, someone here mentioned that their school was considered more difficult than an Ivy league. But a person from UW Med School told me that ivy league schools are actually easier than state schools due to "different grading policies" and that their medical school admissions takes this into account? I was wondering. I know on premed forums that it seems like there is more generous curving at big name schools (we compare what we needed to know for certain classes) and I was wondering if anyone here has been to both and can report back?

...see, I don't get this. You're planning on getting into med school?

[snarkykitty]

That picture stated that if you don't make "bad financial decisions you won't have any debt". That is a "neener neener" and agreeing with it makes you just like the person who made the photo. Just because you were one of the very few lucky ones doesn't mean it's possible for everyone. There are people out there, attending school and racking up debt, despite working to help cover the cost, because the majority cannot afford basic necessities like food, and housing, and books, and tuition on their income. So what if someone can afford school by not having a new car, or a new phone, living in a cheap apartment. Some of us don't even have a car, some of us don't have an apartment of our own and instead live with parents because it's just too damned expensive. Hell, my schools student union regularly holds free lunches, and has a student food back, both of which get copious amounts of business, not because the students are greedy but because they otherwise wouldn't eat, despite working and receiving some sort of funding. Hell, my friend wouldn't have had breakfast or lunch today, except that I bought her something to eat because she doesn't have money. It's bullshit to insist that you don't need debt to attend school when the vast majority of students either have debt and go to school, or have debt because they spend the rest of their lives working minimum wage jobs. I'd rather have debt and a better chance of getting out of it through a job that has possibilities than debt that I can only plan on being stuck with until death.

I never "insisted" that everyone can graduate without debt. I said that it's possible to do so, or at least without mountains of it, by working, getting scholarships, etc.

And, yes, I am one of the lucky ones. I was able to get grants and scholarships because of my grades, my health (the state likes to invest in ppl with disabilities), my independent status, and my poor financial situation. I am lucky that even though I have been without insurance, doctors and pharmaceutical companies gave me a break on appointments and medications (14 different meds a day). I was lucky that, in between surgeries and hospitalizations, and taking "incompletes" in many classes, that I was able to finish my coursework over summer/winter breaks. I am lucky, unlike dozens of friends who died before getting to college or adulthood, that I went to school, graduated, and had a fulfilling job for a number of years.

I am lucky that, when I was finally out of the clutches of my mother at 22, I was able to get my license and buy a falling-apart car to get me as far as possible from her. I am lucky that I was able to work full-time for five years, often working from the hospital, before having to retire at 30 due to my lung function falling to 42%. I am lucky that even though my body is getting weaker, my mind is still pretty sharp, and that I can use it to keep myself from going crazy.

There are ways to BETTER afford school - as I mentioned jobs, scholarships - in addition, taking part-time classes, getting credit for job experiences (internship or co-op), company tuition reimbursement, etc. There are so many options out there. Every little bit helps. That was my intent.

Maybe you saw the photo in a different way than the rest of us did. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

I did.

[emmiedahl]

What? I don't understand the question.

[dirtyhippiegirl]

What? I don't understand the question.

Uggh sorry. neither do I. Haven't slept in three our four days. I apologize. :/

/to sleep

[FireIsCatching89]

Maybe you saw the photo in a different way than the rest of us did. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

About the ivy league schools and totally off topic, someone here mentioned that their school was considered more difficult than an Ivy league. But a person from UW Med School told me that ivy league schools are actually easier than state schools due to "different grading policies" and that their medical school admissions takes this into account? I was wondering. I know on premed forums that it seems like there is more generous curving at big name schools (we compare what we needed to know for certain classes) and I was wondering if anyone here has been to both and can report back?

I can only report what I've heard, but a lot of it is about grade inflation and since so-and-so is smart enough to get into an Ivy, they must be smart enough/work hard enough to deserve at least a B, even if that's just showing up. This isn't the case at my school. The rankings (which, admittedly, are subjective) are based upon things like average GPAs, class ranks, time spent working on homework per week, whether or not this work is also done at the graduate level, etc. etc. And keep in mind, getting into an Ivy still can involve a lot of connections, money, old boys' clubs, etc. Not so much with these "new Ivies" that have only gotten name recognition within the past 30 years or so. They can afford to be very picky about who they select, and we are also a fairly self-selecting group. We are also your idea of traditional college students: 17-23 years old, 90% of us live on campus and do only work-study jobs, which are 5-10 hrs/wk. For us, our school is all encompassing.

Does that make sense? I don't want to seem like I'm bragging about it; some days I absolutely rue my decision to go here, but I know it's for the best and will hopefully help me handle grad school better/make me an appealing candidate for grants and scholarships.

Point is, I have a respectable, though not spectacular GPA and am considered fairly average here. Anywhere else, I'd most likely have a higher GPA, especially since I haven't got a family or anything of that sort to fight for, but here I fight for every point.